Fed up of changing bulbs.

[Gary Peacock]

The halogen and LED lighting is very intollerent of voltages greater then 12v.

Unfortunately the charge voltage of altenator or charger pushes up the voltage to nearer the 14v mark resulting in lots of bulb changing.

These heavy duty voltage regulators should be just the thing to avoid this.

http://www.dg2k.co.uk/XACT.HTM

 

Gary

[Big COL]

The halogen and LED lighting is very intollerent of voltages greater then 12v.

Unfortunately the charge voltage of altenator or charger pushes up the voltage to nearer the 14v mark resulting in lots of bulb changing.

These heavy duty voltage regulators should be just the thing to avoid this.

http://www.dg2k.co.uk/XACT.HTM

 

Gary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hi Gary

 

I have used Driftgate equipment and personally I think it's of good quality, and it's British built. In this case it's a little bit like using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. If you are having trouble with lamps blowing due to higher voltages, then the cheapest way out is to refit the lamps with overvolt sizes. You can get halogen lamps rated at 13.5 volts and 27 volts.

[Gary Peacock]

Can you actually get G4 capsule 13.5v 10w/20w if anybody out there knows a source let me know please, I cant find one.

 

Cheers

Gary

[John Orentas]

I do not believe that you can get G4 or G6.4 tungsten halogen capsule lamps in the marginally higher voltage.

 

There is a vast range of this range lamps manufactured, they are rated in 'lamp life' varying from 50 hours for use as projector lamps to 2,000 hours for display lamps. Lamp life is directly related to light output.

 

It is true that tungsten halogens are particularly intolerant of over voltage running but it is possible also that some retailers have been selling high output types adding to their short life reputation.

 

The only types that have a 13.5 or 27 volt spec. are referred to as 'Automotive' types such as can be found used in cars, and bus lamps which are very inefficient incandescent types.

 

The most pragmatic way out of the over-voltage problem, (if you see it as a problem) is to de-rate your wiring a bit if it is a new build or why not put a suitably rated resistor in the circuit, they cost about 5p. You will loose a bit of light when the engine is not running but you will barely notice, and the lamps will last for ages.

[bottle]

Has anybody got "dimmers", I know there are problems with loading (watts) but these would give the lamps a "soft start" and they will not work with fluorescents.

Also are there any for 12/24 volts

[John Orentas]

Soft starting does not help with lamps, I remember reading in the lighting press, (yes, sadly there is a lighting press) someone did a study on this and intermittent use. It concluded that flashing indicators lasted just as long as a lamp left permanently on for the same total time.

 

World record for longevity of an electric light bulb. Boarded into a loft space for 60 years, it could be proved that it was energised for all that time.

 

How boring is that.

[Richard Bustens]

Why should it matter, surely if the engine is running, it is light and you don't need the lights on, if it is dark or you need the lights on then surely you are moored up.

Well i suppose there will be exceptions but this must be the norm.

[dor]

Tend to agree with Richard here. I've got G4 & G6.35 capsules that have been in , and regularly used, for years.

 

I presume this is because generally the halogens are only used when moored up - tend to use flourescents if need light in the day. Having said that, they are used with engine running sometimes if the battereis are too low to keep the TV going on dark nights.

 

Are the halogens really that susceptible, assuming you are using fairly low wattage rather than trying to light up the neighbourhood? My capsules, in spots, are 10w plus a 20 watt "anglepoise" type lamp. The 10 watt spots are more than bright enough. The 20watt is a G6.35, and I replaced a 35watt with the 20, with very little noticable reduction of light.

 

Perhaps there is a tendency to use higher wattages that are needed, thus using bulbs that are more prone to burning out.

[Guest st170dw]

Soft starting does not help with lamps, I remember reading in the lighting press, (yes, sadly there is a lighting press) someone did a study on this and intermittent use.  It concluded that flashing indicators lasted just as long as a lamp left permanently on for the same total time.

 

World record for longevity of an electric light bulb.  Boarded into a loft space for 60 years, it could be proved that it was energised for all that time.

 

How boring is that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

John,

 

It is not so sad that there is a lighting press but sad that you are reading it!

 

I am glad you do though we don't need to.

[nbtafelberg]

Our Sollatek Lights have no problem with higher voltage ranges. They are compressed fluorescent, they also stay bright when the voltage gets a bit low.

 

Often my system runs at 14 volts due to the solar panels

 

details on http://www.lightupyourboat.com

[maffi mushkila]

World record for longevity of an electric light bulb.  Boarded into a loft space for 60 years, it could be proved that it was energised for all that time.

 

Not surprised shutting it up in the dark for all that time

[John Orentas]

I have moored next to people who run their engine untill midnight.

 

This overrunning of tungsten halogen thing, it has come to light recently for a few reasons.

 

1) On older boats people didn't bother too much about cable sizes and the would under size their wiring such that they would get a volt or two drop in the circuit anyway.

 

2) The advent of these new fangled charge controllers don't help, the can increase the voltage to in excess of 14 volts when the mood suits them.

 

3) Busy bodies like me who pointed it out in the first place.

 

The problem however is more than just theoretical, I had the formula once, it was in the region of halving the lamp-life for ever extra volt above the rating, (by the same token you can double the life by under running)

[JonA]

Hi Gary

 

I have used Driftgate equipment and personally I think it's of good quality, and it's British built. In this case it's a little bit like using a sledge hammer to crack a walnut. If you are having trouble with lamps blowing due to higher voltages, then the cheapest way out is to refit the lamps with overvolt sizes. You can get halogen lamps rated at 13.5 volts and 27 volts.

 

Do you have a source for these bulbs Col? I rang a couple of suppliers that came up on the search engines under halogen bulbs, asked them for MR16 GU2.3 13 or 14v but they didn't know of any.

[David Schweizer]

Is this perception about Halogen bulbs actually true? I converted most of my ceiling lights to use G4 halogen 10w and 20w capsules about five years ago, I haven't had to replace one of them yet. How long does it take to blow one at 14.8 volts? obviously more than the time it takes to go through Blisworth tunnel with them on.

[John Orentas]

Do you have a source for these bulbs Col? I rang a couple of suppliers that came up on the search engines under halogen bulbs, asked them for MR16 GU2.3 13 or 14v but they didn't know of any.

 

 

They are simply called Automotive lamps but the range is limited. The same effect can be gained with the use of a 5p resistor in series, or use slilghty under-sized wiring.

[Gary Peacock]

We are suppliers for the CANTALUPI range of lightning, after a discussion over the relatively short life span of some halogen G4 bulbs customers were experiencing they have now started to supply a bulb more suited to less then perfect supply voltages. So far this seems to have cured the customers problems.

(The suspicious side of me wonders if the quality of the original bulbs rather than the improvements in the new bulbs could have been the route of the problem.)

[JonA]

They are simply called Automotive lamps but the range is limited. The same effect can be gained with the use of a 5p resistor in series, or use slilghty under-sized wiring.

 

Something useful to us marine types for 5p! That sounds more like it

[Richard Bustens]

Ive got 28v in g4 and diowatsit but can not find any in g9 i will post the make over the w/end

[John Orentas]

Is this perception about Halogen bulbs actually true? I converted most of my ceiling lights to use G4 halogen 10w and 20w capsules about five years ago, I haven't had to replace one of them yet. How long does it take to blow one at 14.8 volts? obviously more than the time it takes to go through Blisworth tunnel with them on.

 

 

David.

 

It is true that tungsten halogen lamps are particularly sensitive to over voltage. In fact the manufacturers publish a great deal of data and formula on the subject. However there is a vast range of diachronic fittings available from photographic lamps rated at 50 hours life through to display lamps rated at 10,000 hours, it is largely a matter of pot luck which versions arrive on the shelves of the chandlers.

 

It is all a trade-off between life and luminosity, the output on the above extremes will vary by a factor of three or more. I can't remember the figures exactly but the lamp life reduces by something lake 30% for every 10% over voltage, light output has a very similar ratio.

 

14.8 volts seems very high even if an alternator controller was operating at full output, you could normally assume a volt drop of at least 1/2 volt.

 

There is a limited range of automotive T H manufactured, but not I think with diachronic reflectors, as the name suggests they are made specifically for vehicles with charging circuits, usually rated at 13.5 and 27 volts.

[Richard Bustens]

Everyone is quoting 27v but the ones i have in g4 are marked 28v10w and made specificaly for marine use .... according to the supplier.

Edited November 4, 2005 by Richard Bustens

[David Schweizer]

David.

14.8 volts seems very high even if an alternator controller was operating at full output, you could normally assume a volt drop of at least 1/2 volt.

 

[/quote

 

The 14.8 volts is the theoretical output of the alternator using a Sterling Advanced Digital Alternator Controller, and that is more or less what is registered on the ammeter when the engine is running, but I had overlooked voltage drop which would be approaching 1volt with all seven lights on. 13.8 volts does not seem so high.

[John Orentas]

Everyone is quoting 27v but the ones i have in g4 are marked 28v10w and made specificaly for marine use .... according to the supplier.

 

 

 

Hi Richard.

 

There are literally thousands of lamps in manufacture at any one time they come from all over the world. There is a 28 v/dc standard supply in some military vehicles, some aircraft and all helicopters they use a very tightly regulated 28 volts mainly for instrument systems. Those lamps could well be made for that specific use you never quite know with lamps they turn up all over the place.

[NB Willawaw]

I'm currently designing a 12V lighting system for a new narrowboat.

I have the lighting system simulated on my PC and can experiment with different power ratings of lamps in different sections and connected to different breakers.

I can then simulate realistic operating scenarios to calculate optimum power drain etc when people move around the boat or at different times of the evening - it is rare for all lights to be on at any one time.

In run mode, I can monitor current drain, power dissipation etc with different voltage levels.

 

I have an MR16 20W halogen lamp running on my test bench at the moment. It lights from about 2.5V upwards and will withstand 15.5VDC. What I haven't been able to test yet is the life of the bulb at this voltage.

[Gary Peacock]

Cantalupi addressed the blowing 12v G4 capsules and now supply a "Special For Boats" so it says on the box Xenon Halogen. So far these seem far better than the original standard bulbs.

[NB Willawaw]

With respect, what do they do to them to make them special?

Its not that easy to go into production on a modified bulb for such small

production numbers.

 

I have now tried standard GE 12V 10W G4 capsules at over 15.5V and they are not blowing.

I just don't know if they will attain their 2000 hour rating, over voltage.

 

Mark