Lister st2 fuel pump timing and idle

[Liam webb]

Right, iv set the gov up on my lister st 2, but its still ticking over way to quick when you go to turn engine off the rack is almost fully back as well I mean its mm. But if you open it up and control it on gov by hand it ticks over lovley this is with the morse disconected. You then stop engine and re start and back to square one again. Any ideas and sometimes has a habbit of running away too. Both pump marks are spot on with the sides of the housing so im baffled know.could retarding fuel pump timing move the rack to a diffrent position

Edited August 28, 2016 by Liam webb

[zenataomm]

Have you done the spill timing on the element pumps?

[Tony Dunkley]

Right, iv set the gov up on my lister st 2, but its still ticking over way to quick when you go to turn engine off the rack is almost fully back as well I mean its mm. But if you open it up and control it on gov by hand it ticks over lovley this is with the morse disconected. You then stop engine and re start and back to square one again. Any ideas and sometimes has a habbit of running away too. Both pump marks are spot on with the sides of the housing so im baffled know.could retarding fuel pump timing move the rack to a diffrent position

 

Despite whatever you have done with the governor, linkage and injector pumps, there can only be either something preventing the pump racks from operating freely, and / or the governor, and it's linkage, isn't correctly set-up and adjusted.

 

The scribed marks [on the pump racks] that line up with the sides of the pump bodies are nothing to do with pump timing.

[Liam webb]

Would the engine run if timing is one shim or two out tho, smoke is minimal starts up straight away etc, but is ticking over way to fast but when looking at rack its virtually all the way shut?? And when pulling the stop over it barley moves rack mms for it to stop engine. All linkage moves freely first thing I checked, Tony.

[Tony Dunkley]

Would the engine run if timing is one shim or two out tho, smoke is minimal starts up straight away etc, but is ticking over way to fast but when looking at rack its virtually all the way shut?? And when pulling the stop over it barley moves rack mms for it to stop engine. All linkage moves freely first thing I checked, Tony.

 

Injection timing won't have any significant, or even perceptible effect on idling speed, and there isn't much travel on the pump racks from idling off load to the stop position, . . . that's quite normal.

 

Have you disturbed, or made any adjustments to, the governor arm fulcrum in the timing case, or the external adjustments to the speeder spring and speed control stops ?

Edited August 29, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[Liam webb]

Hi Tony, iv set the govnor up per what the manual has said, iv re timed the engine its had the pumps and injectors overhuald. Ever scince its never idled right. The engine has had new cylinder heads piston rings, crankshaft bearings etc.

[bizzard]

As Tony Dunkley says its very likely the pump rack spindles sticking. Try slackening off the fuel feed banjos and the feed pipes to the injectors, then slacken the pumps securing U clamps, twiddle the rack spindles back and forth and if they feel perfectly free re tighten the clamps, check the spindles for free movement again and then re tighten all the fuel pipes.

[Tony Dunkley]

Hi Tony, iv set the govnor up per what the manual has said, iv re timed the engine its had the pumps and injectors overhuald. Ever scince its never idled right. The engine has had new cylinder heads piston rings, crankshaft bearings etc.

 

What was the reason for having to reset the governor, . . . have you fitted new governor weight springs or speeder spring, and is the engine a factory produced variable speed model with an external speed control lever and adjustable stops, or was it made as a fixed speed engine with the [now variable] speed now being controlled by means of the speeder spring rod where it sticks out of the timing case ?

 

It's well worth re-checking the pump racks, as Bizz suggests, for anything that may interfere with their free movement, and whilst doing that also make sure that oil feed piping to the valve gear hasn't been bent slightly out of shape and is fouling where it passes close to the pump rack linkage.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[Tony Brooks]

I can only endorse what Biz and Tony are saying about checking the rack is free. It was not so easy on the SL4s I was dealing with, two more pumps to twist and jamb the rack.

 

I may be completely wrong here but I am sure our SLs had a light "idle" spring inside the stronger main control spring and the idle stop adjusted this spring teension. If your SR has a similar setup is that light spring in place? Tony, Biz?

Edited August 30, 2016 by Tony Brooks

[Tony Dunkley]

......... .......... ............

 

I may be completely wrong here but I am sure our SLs had a light "idle" spring inside the stronger main control spring and the idle stop adjusted this spring teension. If your SR has a similar setup is that light spring in place? Tony, Biz?

 

 

Yes, there were many additions and variations to the governor linkage and speed controls on the Lister ranges, and not only from type to type, but between the 1, 2, 3 and 4 cylinder variants in the same range.

I can recall one memorable afternoon of fun some years ago changing the pumps on an SR4 in a small skid-steer loader which had been run with the fuel filters by-passed because they were constantly blocking up !! The engine was sandwiched tightly in between the bucket arms and rams and everything had to be done at full arm stretch through a mirror.

[RLWP]

 

The engine was sandwiched tightly in between the bucket arms and rams and everything had to be done at full arm stretch through a mirror.

 

 

You mean you could actually see what you were doing with a mirror! Luxury!

 

Richard

[Tony Dunkley]

 

 

You mean you could actually see what you were doing with a mirror! Luxury!

 

Richard

 

The mirror was primarily for admiring myself as I worked, . . . . the main difficulty was that various bits of the machine structure were in the way and I couldn't position it on my 'best side'.

[RLWP]

 

The mirror was primarily for admiring myself as I worked, . . . . the main difficulty was that various bits of the machine structure were in the way and I couldn't position it on my 'best side'.

 

 

One must always look one's best

 

Richard

[Liam webb]

The engine had a fulk rebuild new crankshaft main bearings etc, so evreything was stripped all the casings shot blasted etc and powder coated and so on, fuel pumps and injectors sent away for overhual, it runs very clean till you Hit three quater throttle then its just all smoke, iv checked the racks a fare few times they dont appear to be sticking, the idle spring? Is this where the two racks connect to the second pump?

[Tony Brooks]

 

The engine had a fulk rebuild new crankshaft main bearings etc, so evreything was stripped all the casings shot blasted etc and powder coated and so on, fuel pumps and injectors sent away for overhual, it runs very clean till you Hit three quater throttle then its just all smoke, iv checked the racks a fare few times they dont appear to be sticking, the idle spring? Is this where the two racks connect to the second pump?

 

No, what I was trying to describe was a light spring in the middle of a much stronger one with the idle adjustment acting on the light spring but note what the other Tony said about many variations so no one can be 100% sure what you actually have.

 

Would this smoke be in gear? If so try fitting a prop with less pitch on it, it would sound like overloading in that case.

 

Post 2 asking if you have actually spill timed the pumps, have you?

Edited September 1, 2016 by Tony Brooks

[bizzard]

The ST manual explains the fuel system with pictures. How to set up the governor, spill time, set the racks, slow peed control ect, along with all the setting measurements. Simple enough really but far too lengthy to explain the whole lot on here There should be a Lister ST workshop manual online. Or RLWP Marine engine services could probably provide you with one.

Edited September 1, 2016 by bizzard

[RLWP]

And the 'G' setting...

 

Richard

[bizzard]

And the 'G' setting...

 

Richard

Ah, the G gap . Depending on engine revs, 0.015 to 0.036.

[RLWP]

Ah, the G gap . Depending on engine revs, 0.015 to 0.036.

 

Or less

 

Richard

[bizzard]

 

Or less

 

Richard

Or if your going racing 1/4''

[Tony Dunkley]

The engine had a fulk rebuild new crankshaft main bearings etc, so evreything was stripped all the casings shot blasted etc and powder coated and so on, fuel pumps and injectors sent away for overhual, it runs very clean till you Hit three quater throttle then its just all smoke, iv checked the racks a fare few times they dont appear to be sticking, the idle spring? Is this where the two racks connect to the second pump?

 

I'll repeat what I asked in Post #8 ~ "What was the reason for having to reset the governor, . . . have you fitted new governor weight springs or speeder spring, and is the engine a factory produced variable speed model with an external speed control lever and adjustable stops, or was it made as a fixed speed engine with the [now variable] speed now being controlled by means of the speeder spring rod where it sticks out of the timing case ?"

 

Additionally, in your Post #1 you said ~ " . . . . sometimes has a habit of running away too.". If these are 'fuel' runaways [as opposed to 'lube oil' runaways] then the cause cannot be anything other than sticking pump racks and/or governor and linkage.