Switching from Eberspacher to Webasto

[NMEA]

I forgot about my 60l calorifier, so I think a 5kW boiler should be ok?

Calorifier is a bit of a red herring I'm afraid,

whilst it will rip therms when the water is cold, as the temperature differential rises it takes less and less, to a point where it is taking almost nothing. The only difference fitting a 5kw will make is it will take less time before the boiler cycles. Radiators behave quite differently as there is always a quite large temperature differential between the rad and the air. all the Webasto info strongly advises us to not include it in the calculations unless the radiator load exceeds the output + over 10% so for a 17000 BTU (5kw) boiler you would need 18,700 BTU of radiators, against your 8000 BTU, so over double. The only way to effectively prevent or at least reduce cycling is to either properly load the boiler of have a very structured regime when using them, this is why most people have them on for say 1 to two hours to take the chill off and heat the water until they light the stove. Using otherwise will require more frequent service intervals and it's attendant cost. I consider this issue so important that I will and do lose installs because of it. Some owners accept the probability of higher costs in which case I will do the install, others don't and in those three or four cases a year I would rather lose the work than store up issues which I should have seen coming. I am sometimes called out to problems on boats less than a couple of years old where the seller has told the owner to "just use it like the central heating at home"

For those who are happy to and are competent to do their own servicing it becomes less of an issue obviously as labour and travel time is always a significant portion of any service invoice.

Edited February 3, 2016 by NMEA

[blackrose]

Calorifier is a bit of a red herring I'm afraid,

whilst it will rip therms when the water is cold, as the temperature differential rises it takes less and less, to a point where it is taking almost nothing. The only difference fitting a 5kw will make is it will take less time before the boiler cycles. Radiators behave quite differently as there is always a quite large temperature differential between the rad and the air. all the Webasto info strongly advises us to not include it in the calculations unless the radiator load exceeds the output + over 10% so for a 17000 BTU (5kw) boiler you would need 18,700 BTU of radiators, against your 8000 BTU, so over double. The only way to effectively prevent or at least reduce cycling is to either properly load the boiler of have a very structured regime when using them, this is why most people have them on for say 1 to two hours to take the chill off and heat the water until they light the stove. Using otherwise will require more frequent service intervals and it's attendant cost. I consider this issue so important that I will and do lose installs because of it. Some owners accept the probability of higher costs in which case I will do the install, others don't and in those three or four cases a year I would rather lose the work than store up issues which I should have seen coming. I am sometimes called out to problems on boats less than a couple of years old where the seller has told the owner to "just use it like the central heating at home"

For those who are happy to and are competent to do their own servicing it becomes less of an issue obviously as labour and travel time is always a significant portion of any service invoice.

Thanks. Assuming you service both webastos and eberspachers, would you say that webastos are easier to service for the DIYer, or doesn't it make much difference?

[NMEA]

For what it's worth I have always found Webasto the simplest to service, both the wet and forced air systems, probably more straight forward than even Mikuni. That may be because I do so many of them day in day out but I believe it to be an objective rather than subjective opinion. Most DIYers don't have the kit to carry a proper service anyway, just decokes, I rarely hear of anybody setting the burn rate after decoke or component replacement, or running on the test bed with RDlyme in the circuit to de scale the heat exchanger walls and ensure good heat transfer, the amount of scale that I sometimes get in the catch basket on my test bed is quite alarming and another common cause of over cycling.

[blackrose]

Thanks, I think I'll probably look for a webasto. I did think about installing a Hurricane as they're meant to be the most reliable, but they are horrendously expensive.

[mrsmelly]

Thanks, I think I'll probably look for a webasto. I did think about installing a Hurricane as they're meant to be the most reliable, but they are horrendously expensive.

 

The hurricane is a great bit of kit and was the only form of heating on my present boat when I purchased it. I have since fitted a squirrell so the hurricane was only back up use and its gone wrong big time. It has done many thousands of hours and is beyond economic repair so I am following this thread as I am going to have a webasto or eber fitted in its place as they are vastly cheaper than the hurricane which is a shame but as its no longer the main heat source it doesnt need to be as good as the Hurricane.

 

Tim

[BruceinSanity]

The hurricane is a great bit of kit and was the only form of heating on my present boat when I purchased it. I have since fitted a squirrell so the hurricane was only back up use and its gone wrong big time. It has done many thousands of hours and is beyond economic repair so I am following this thread as I am going to have a webasto or eber fitted in its place as they are vastly cheaper than the hurricane which is a shame but as its no longer the main heat source it doesnt need to be as good as the Hurricane.

 

Tim

Yeah, my Hurricane has failed for the second time in three winters. It was £500 to fit a new compressor last time and from the symptoms it's gone again after just over 1000 hours. We're using an oil filled rad instead (we too have a Squirrel) and plan to fit a Webasto in the Spring.

[blackrose]

 

The hurricane is a great bit of kit and was the only form of heating on my present boat when I purchased it. I have since fitted a squirrell so the hurricane was only back up use and its gone wrong big time. It has done many thousands of hours and is beyond economic repair so I am following this thread as I am going to have a webasto or eber fitted in its place as they are vastly cheaper than the hurricane which is a shame but as its no longer the main heat source it doesnt need to be as good as the Hurricane.

 

Tim

It went wrong because you stopped using it?

 

Yeah, my Hurricane has failed for the second time in three winters. It was £500 to fit a new compressor last time and from the symptoms it's gone again after just over 1000 hours. We're using an oil filled rad instead (we too have a Squirrel) and plan to fit a Webasto in the Spring.

Blimey, so they do go wrong. Thanks for the warnings. I will avoid.

Edited February 4, 2016 by blackrose

[mrsmelly]

It went wrong because you stopped using it?

 

 

Blimey, so they do go wrong. Thanks for the warnings. I will avoid.

 

No I was still using it a lot but it was just completely worn out. It had been used continuosly for 7 years winter and summer for hot water and heating and had done several thousand hours BUT had not been looked after.

 

Tim

[George94]

In the interests of accuracy, I dug out my redundant Hydronic 10, which was replaced by a 5 because the ECU packed up.

 

Whilst I was right to say that the electrics, timer, wiring, and silencer were retained for the smaller model, it seems that the fuel pump was swapped over.

[saltysplash]

 

 

 

Now I think of it, it did have an adjustable thermostat. Isn't that available for a Webasto?

 

 

No. You mustn't fit one as they shouldn't short-cycle.

 

I didnt know you shouldnt use a thermostat with a Webasto.

I fitted a standard household room thermostat a couple of years ago.

Works great, saves on fuel consumtion and the Weby runs fine.

[NMEA]

 

 

 

I didnt know you shouldnt use a thermostat with a Webasto.

I fitted a standard household room thermostat a couple of years ago.

Works great, saves on fuel consumtion and the Weby runs fine.

There is absolutely no reason for it not to "work", it's just a switch like any other after all. Whether it should be used is another matter entirely, like a number of things that "work" like TRVs as another example they cause over cycling and in the case of a 'stat, frequent shut down and starts, this leads to premature coking, reduction in glow pin life leading to larger service bills down the line, obviously if this risk is accepted and the unit is out of warranty then all is well as it's your heater and your money.

Edited February 6, 2016 by NMEA

[saltysplash]

There is absolutely no reason for it not to "work", it's just a switch like any other after all. Whether it should be used is another matter entirely, like a number of things that "work" like TRVs as another example they cause over cycling and in the case of a 'stat, frequent shut down and starts, this leads to premature coking, reduction in glow pin life leading to larger service bills down the line, obviously if this risk is accepted and the unit is out of warranty then all is well as it's your heater and your money.

It wasnt a boast, just a point that i wasnt aware its not advisable and so far so good.

It was last serviced just over two years ago so will be interesting to see if its affected the unit adversly.

Interesting thread and thanks for the info.

[blackrose]

Would it be ok to have thermostatic rad valves with a webasto as long as the valves are left fully open?

[George94]

Would it be ok to have thermostatic rad valves with a webasto as long as the valves are left fully open?

 

So what then would be the point of having them?

 

Or are you saying that they are already there, and you don't want to take them off?

[cuthound]

Would it be ok to have thermostatic rad valves with a webasto as long as the valves are left fully open?

Yes, that's what I do. It's easier than draining the system and replacing them

[blackrose]

 

So what then would be the point of having them?

 

Or are you saying that they are already there, and you don't want to take them off?

Yes

Yes, that's what I do. It's easier than draining the system and replacing them

Exactly. The central heating system is already there and I can't be bothered to drain and dismantle it. Thanks

[NMEA]

Yes, that's what I do. It's easier than draining the system and replacing them

Yes, just leave it until you do the usual 24 monthly antifreeze change and then remove them with the system dry.