Engine re-build or replacement- help required

[PSimmo]

I've uploaded the photos onto my canalworld gallery, 2 are old photos that were in the folder that came with the boat, and 2 existing. Hopefully these links below will take you to the photos-

[Tony Brooks]

Before anyone mentions the filter in the electric lift pump shown on one of the photos it has been changed for a different sort.

[Guest]

Another basic test for lack of compression on any 'cylinder-cylinders' is to keep the engine stop pulled out or disconnected so no fuel is delivered and crank the engine over on the starter. The compressions if equal should sound regular like; grur-rur- rur-rur-rur-rur- rur- rur-rur and so on. If any compressions are not good the sound will not be regular but will sound something like grur-rur-wee-rur-rur-rur-wee-rur-rur-rur-wee-rur and so on or different combinations depending on which cylinders compressions are weak as the engine momentarily speeds up as it it passes the weak compression. If the engine spins around faster without much resistance at all like gru-ru-ru-ru-ru-ru-ru or worse still even faster wee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee and so on, not much compression at all on all cylinders. All done with a good charged up battery.

That is usually my first basic check for low compression before delving further. Same for petrol engines with ignition turned off.

To add to that, whilst cranking blow by's through either air intake or exhaust may be heard as an irregular shuuk, shuuk, shuuk which indicate inlet or exhaust valves not seating properly, either through worn or burnt out seats or too tight adjustment.

 

Donkeys years ago Brown Brothers the garage equipment company made a kit that checked for compression leaks which comprised of an air hose and adapter to screw into each spark plug hole. You screwed the hose into a cylinder spark plug hole with the other end connected to and air compressor receiver. Turn the engine around until the cylinder to be checked had its piston up with both valves fully shut and turned the air on. If air hissed from the air intake or exhaust pipe the valves were not seating or if excessive air was blasting out of the oil filler, breather or blew the dipstick sky high, pistons or rings in trouble.

Your description is exactly how we used to "test" cars that we bought for banger racing. if you got a regualr "wee" sound there was no compression in that pot.

[Bod]

Have the valve clearances been "checked" since the engine last ran properly?

Horribly badly set valves may be worth checking for?

Certainly worth doing whilst the glow plugs/injectors are out.

 

Bod

[valrene9600]

Halford's in Stroud advised me to replace my engine as they didn't keep oil filters for the engine I had !!

Well what other solution could there possibly be. You are after all dealing with experts.

[PSimmo]

UPDATE

Battery charged and reconnected.

Removal of injectors- 3 of the injectors were very sooty as can be seen from the photos that have hopefully uploaded. I’m not sure if this is the right end to count them from, but starting with 1 at the gearbox end, once bolts were removed the injector itself was very difficult to get out, I had to slowly ease it out over 5 minutes or more, the other 3 pulled straight out. Injector 2 was the only one that wasn’t covered in soot.

All 4 of the injectors were sooty (I have uploaded a photo of one of them), I removed and tested each one with jump leads and they were smoking hot in seconds but struggled to glow red, probably due to the amount of soot on them? You could see the heat crackling the soot.

Compression test carried out. It wasn’t possible to fix the tester clamp in place on injector 1 (due to a bolt in the way on the side of the head), so I tested the other 3, with results very low of between 1 and 4 bar… We are moored just near a boatyard, and fortunately one of the guys there was happy to come and have a look to make sure I was carrying out the test correctly, which he said that I was. He went on to say that if there is no compression in any of the cylinders, then it is likely that the head has lifted.

He said to take the rocker cover off and turn the engine over, and if the valves are all moving as they should, then this strengthens the case in his view that the cause is that the head has lifted. I did this and the valves do appear to be all working fine.

Any thoughts welcome, on where to go from here?

[Dalslandia]

check the rockers if they have some play when piston is at top, for injection/ignition timing, I am tired.

[Tony Brooks]

I am not sure how heads can "lift" but it certainly sounds like it might be a rather major head gasket failure. However that is often caused by overheating and your paintwork showed few signs of it.

 

Whatever it needs in the end the head will have to come off and at that point an assessment of the bores can be made. AS you have done a compression check you should find getting the head off easy. Just get a bit of card and punch 8 holes in it and number the holes. This is to keep the push rods in order. You normally number from the fan belt end of the engine. I will be able to pop across and give you an idea about the bore wear and confirm/deny the likelihood of a head gasket failure next week.

 

You will only need simple spanners and sockets for removal but you will need feeler gauges and a torque wrench (possibly and angle gauge) for refitting. Could someone confirm or deny if this engaging has stretch head bolts and thus need an angle gauge.

 

Otherwise you seem to have found a helpful engineer who may be happy to quote fro the job.

[PSimmo]

I am not sure how heads can "lift" but it certainly sounds like it might be a rather major head gasket failure. However that is often caused by overheating and your paintwork showed few signs of it.

 

Whatever it needs in the end the head will have to come off and at that point an assessment of the bores can be made. AS you have done a compression check you should find getting the head off easy. Just get a bit of card and punch 8 holes in it and number the holes. This is to keep the push rods in order. You normally number from the fan belt end of the engine. I will be able to pop across and give you an idea about the bore wear and confirm/deny the likelihood of a head gasket failure next week.

 

You will only need simple spanners and sockets for removal but you will need feeler gauges and a torque wrench (possibly and angle gauge) for refitting. Could someone confirm or deny if this engaging has stretch head bolts and thus need an angle gauge.

 

Otherwise you seem to have found a helpful engineer who may be happy to quote fro the job.

 

Hi Tony,

 

Thanks again. I will go ahead with removing the head and would be grateful if I could take you on up your offer to come and give me an idea about the bore wear / gasket once I have done this, as you have suggested. I'll let you know when I've done this, which may be later this week/weekend (but it depends on when I can fit it in around work).

 

Thanks

[Tony Brooks]

 

Hi Tony,

 

Thanks again. I will go ahead with removing the head and would be grateful if I could take you on up your offer to come and give me an idea about the bore wear / gasket once I have done this, as you have suggested. I'll let you know when I've done this, which may be later this week/weekend (but it depends on when I can fit it in around work).

 

Thanks

 

I am back home now so ring 0118 9874285.

 

Cheers

[Tony Brooks]

I visited the boat this evening and did not find what I thought I would after the compression test result. I no longer have access to micrometers etc so I could take no bore measurements.

 

The injectors we looked at still had their pintles intact but were covered in soft soot from poor combustion.

 

The head still had the gasket stuck to it and when I eased it off it seemed to be stuck between the bores. There was no major signs of burning between the bores on either side of the gasket, on the head or block face. I scraped as much gasket residue as I could with the equipment available from the central area of the head and found something around 5 to 8 tho" dip but the face was not properly clean and I only had an aluminium rules so that was open to plenty of error. I explained to the OP how to clean the head and take more accurate readings with a straight edge. The block face was similar with similar results. I expect proper cleaning and re-measuring will show the distortion within tolerance UNLESS that engine requires liner protrusion. If it does I do not think it has any. I do not think this was a head gasket fault.

 

The engine needed a bit of force to start it turning by using a spanner (about 10") on the crankshaft nut but I think this was just rust where the bores were left uncovered for about 2 weeks.

 

No valve heads (in the head) showed signs of burning or long term poor seating.

 

I then expected oil washed piston crowns but found none although number 4 looked a bit more oily than the others.

 

Much to my amazement there was only the merest hint of a lip on the top of the bores and even that could have been carbon.

 

There was no signs of excessive piston crown to bore gap at any point in the stroke on any cylinder.

 

The bores did not appear to be suffering from excess glazing and had no significant scores although there were a few very light vertical scratches.

 

There was the early signs of rust and deposits in the bores at the point the pistons were in but nothing major.

 

All in all a very disappointing visit with no definitive diagnosis.

 

I discussed the options with the OP and how, so far, the ABC engineers at Aldermaston Wharf seemed to acting in a professional way leaving him with two way forward. The ABC chaps had already looked at the head and gasket and suggested that the best way forward was to lift the engine out so they could draw the pistons for a look at the rings. I think this is entirely reasonable.

 

I also suggested that if he could get the distortion data and torque readings the OP could TRY replacing the head gasket just for the cost of his time and the gasket set.

 

I think the OP is going to ask ABC to carry on. This seems to be in accordance with the finding so far although I still have a niggling worry about the high cranking voltdrop and slowish cranking speed.

[RLWP]

There you go - there's nothing wrong with it, except it doesn't work. Old engines can be bloody irritating sometimes

 

Good report Tony

 

Richard

 

MORE: 'high cranking voltdrop and slowish cranking speed' - are you sure the starter isn't shorting out internally?

Edited September 16, 2015 by RLWP

[Tony Brooks]

 

 

MORE: 'high cranking voltdrop and slowish cranking speed' - are you sure the starter isn't shorting out internally?

 

Not 100% sure but what I can say is the motor did not get hot enough for that the last time I had a look and the OP got low compressions when he tested the engien (which I suppose he may with a low cranking speed.

[RLWP]

Im asking because I had a starter on a 2.2 that shorted the field coils to ground. Slow cranking and huge currents

 

Richard

[Tony Brooks]

Whenever I have had a shorted starter the motor got more than warm very fast. This one did not seem to, but that does not definitively rule out the possibility and the 15 to 60psi compression test results seem to indicate rather more than slow cranking. I would want the motor of for either a strip and inspection or a lock torque test if I had the equipment.

 

As I said in my first report the car type isolator switch on a battery post connection was getting hot as I would expect but that should have reduced the voltdrop across the battery if anything. Then the OP posted his compression readings.