Wooden boat

[fuzzyduck]

This boat has intrigued me for a couple of years.

 

 

Apologies for the rubbish quality, cameraphone you know.

Edited March 7, 2007 by fuzzyduck

[magnetman]

Looks like an early Market Harborough boat, mainly wooden but has a steel stern end. I know of a couple of others, one called Pendragon and the other called Tandem although Tandem has been broken up I think and there is another one can't remember the name. She probably has a Lister LR2/SR2 engine and a wooden non traditional tiller if she is indeed a Harborough boat.

[Chertsey]

S'funny, I was asking a similar question only last night: http://nbwarrior.blogspot.com/2007/03/whats-this-then.html

 

Calling Carl ...

[carlt]

S'funny, I was asking a similar question only last night: http://nbwarrior.blogspot.com/2007/03/whats-this-then.html

 

Calling Carl ...

Well after typing a lengthy response my link went down (damn you gprs) and I lost it all. Here we go again.

 

Fuzzy...The boat is indeed a wooden harborough Marine from the late 60's. They were built with a mixture of larch and oak sides, steel back end and fibre glass roof. I've seen a few with concrete in them to block leaks, to complete the set. I've never seen one with a wooden tiller thhough magman, maybe an owner's add-on?

 

This one is unusual because it's back end isn't hanging off. That may have more to do with it being up on stocks, rather than it's overall condition. One thing that is worrying about it though is the new planks (iroko, or just camera phone?). Two of the scarfes are in a line with the top two older ones. this removes all the strength from the hull. Important with HMs because the awesome bow means there is a lot of wood unsupported by water. It looks to me as if the restorer is scared of the bends. Whereabouts is it Fuzzy? I'd love to have a close look at it because I really like Harboros (wooden ones anyway). I used to own Tramella, the longest harboro marine built, 65' none of the others were over 45. She was built in '68 for the MD of Anglo Welsh and her back end was straight because she was never hired out. I sold her when I got Usk and she's on the Great Ouse now.

 

WWoman, yours is easy because I know this boat really well. I nearly bought it about 10 years ago and have done a lot of work on it, subsequently. It's called Azuma and is a chop down Ricky butty. It was bought (when I turned it down) by a film director, who left it with me and my friend sean to work on. The majority of the hull work was done and the interior was made lovely, when the owner disappeared off to the US. Sean towed it around for about 3 years before he traced the guy's son and was able to sell it on. I've dipped my pumps in it several times, subsequently, as subsequent owners have let it sink. It's now moored about half a mile from me at the wolfhampcote winding hole, I think.

[John Orentas]

Fuzzy's boat is surely the front end of what was previously a working boat, a typical conversion of the 60's somewhere there is or was the rear end with a front end formed onto it. A great many of the working boats ended their lives this way being the basis for two hire boats.

 

The photo is not too clear but I suspect Warrior Womans boat is the rear end of another one, similar philosophy, as a hire boat it may well have had the original working boat engine fitted.

 

We need a geek to tell us exactly what the style is and who original carriers are.

[carlt]

We need a geek to tell us exactly what the style is and who original carriers are.

 

I think a geek did an hour and ten minutes ago John

[John Orentas]

I think a geek did an hour and ten minutes ago John

 

 

Hi Carl.

 

Sorry about that but you did seem to imply that the first boat was built in the 60's rather than cut in half and modified then.

[Chertsey]

WWoman, yours is easy because I know this boat really well. I nearly bought it about 10 years ago and have done a lot of work on it, subsequently. It's called Azuma and is a chop down Ricky butty. It was bought (when I turned it down) by a film director, who left it with me and my friend sean to work on. The majority of the hull work was done and the interior was made lovely, when the owner disappeared off to the US. Sean towed it around for about 3 years before he traced the guy's son and was able to sell it on. I've dipped my pumps in it several times, subsequently, as subsequent owners have let it sink. It's now moored about half a mile from me at the wolfhampcote winding hole, I think.

 

Thanks Carl, my confidence grows by the day. Only if it is moored near you, then it can't have been there long, because three weeks ago it was on the Regents Canal near Kings Cross (and some time before that).

[carlt]

Hi Carl.

 

Sorry about that but you did seem to imply that the first boat was built in the 60's rather than cut in half and modified then.

That's because it is a late '60s Harborough Marine. A lot of people mistake them for chop downs especially because of the steel back end (it just doesn't seem natural). The subsequent steel boats were built to almost exactly the same bow profile and the same cruiser stern. If anyone with a more reliable link than mine could post a '70's H-marine next to Fuzzy's photo you'll see the family likeness. I struggle to post piccies with my set up. Here's the old heap of some geezer you might have heard of though:

 

 

WWoman, if your photo was taken less than 7 years ago (when we took the front end off Azuma) then she has an identical twin. This is exactly like azuma in cabin style, length, back end of a ricky, length of back deck and even windows, when me and sean first started work on her. So it ain't azuma but I can confidently say it is the back end of a star class ricky butty, chopped in the late 60s by Ken Keays and converted by him. I am amazed at the similarities to Azuma (even the cabin is the same blue).

Edited March 8, 2007 by carlt

[fuzzyduck]

Whereabouts is it Fuzzy?

 

G.U Leicester Line a stone's throw from thurmaston lock.

 

IF you plan to take a squint, PM me first as I live 5 minutes from there, and can show you. besides I'd be awsome to have a look at the boat with a geek.

[Chertsey]

WWoman, if your photo was taken less than 7 years ago (when we took the front end off Azuma) then she has an identical twin. This is exactly like azuma in cabin style, length, back end of a ricky, length of back deck and even windows, when me and sean first started work on her. So it ain't azuma but I can confidently say it is the back end of a star class ricky butty, chopped in the late 60s by Ken Keays and converted by him. I am amazed at the similarities to Azuma (even the cabin is the same blue).

 

Taken February 15th this year from under Goods Way Bridge.

Lord, of course it's not enough to be able to identify front ends is it, one has to be able to recognise various butty back ends too. Perhaps someone should start a gallery of nice clear pictures of typical examples with expert/geek comments which would serve the I-Spy book function sought on another thread (sorry, don't know how, or indeed whether, to link to it) ...

[Hairy-Neil]

....... Perhaps someone should start a gallery of nice clear pictures of typical examples with expert/geek comments which would serve the I-Spy book function sought on another thread ........

 

Post the pictures and I'm sure we can add the geek comments between us.....

[Keeping Up]

That's because it is a late '60s Harborough Marine. A lot of people mistake them for chop downs especially because of the steel back end (it just doesn't seem natural). The subsequent steel boats were built to almost exactly the same bow profile and the same cruiser stern. If anyone with a more reliable link than mine could post a '70's H-marine next to Fuzzy's photo you'll see the family likeness. I struggle to post piccies with my set up. Here's the old heap of some geezer you might have heard of though:

 

.....

If you haven't seen it, there's more about the old heap here

 

Allan

[Chertsey]

Post the pictures and I'm sure we can add the geek comments between us.....

 

Ah, but I wouldn't know what constituted a good example. And more pertinently, I haven't yet mastered the art of posting pics on this forum. But I'm sure there are plenty of othere who can do both ... and I will benefit from reading it!

[Supermalc]

Have you a picture in photobucket? (any picture)

 

If I want to put this picture on the forum, I just write [ followed by IMG then ] at the front before http. Then [ followed by /IMG than ] at the back after jpg

 

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/supe...ttershall07.jpg

 

 

Edited March 9, 2007 by Supermalc

[carlt]

If you haven't seen it, there's more about the old heap here

 

Allan

Sorry allan. It was meant to be amusing but turned out not. I was going to link to your site but got so excited about my first successful picture posting that I didn't bother.

 

 

Ah, but I wouldn't know what constituted a good example.

If it intrigues you, then it's a good example. It will intrigue someone else, and someone will probably know its history, at best, or the type of boat, at worst. It could also help save some boats that warrant preservation.

[Hairy-Neil]

.

If it intrigues you, then it's a good example. It will intrigue someone else, and someone will probably know its history, at best, or the type of boat, at worst.......

 

 

I've heard it said there are people who can identify Big Ricky's by the position of the scarfs......

 

The planks weren't template sawn from standards like the steel or iron plating on a riveted hull. Wooden boats are all unique in that the position of the scarf joints was decided to a degree by the length of plank available to the boatbuilder on the day.

[Chertsey]

I've heard it said there are people who can identify Big Ricky's by the position of the scarfs......

 

Need glossary too

[carlt]

Need glossary too

 

Canal Glossary

 

Sadly the scarfe joint (we'll argue spelling later hairy neil ) isn't featured.

 

If you look at Fuzzy's piccy of the Harboro Marine you can see where some newer tropical looking brown wood has been put in. The diagonal joint between the planks is called a scarfe. A common strengthening joint used in all branches of woodwork.

[Hairy-Neil]

we'll argue spelling later hairy neil

 

scarph –noun, verb.

 

Shipbuilding term.

 

scarf –noun

 

1. a tapered or otherwise-formed end on each of the pieces to be assembled with a scarf joint.

 

No results found for scarfe

 

Did you mean SCARF

[carlt]

scarph –noun, verb.

 

Shipbuilding term.

 

scarf –noun

 

1. a tapered or otherwise-formed end on each of the pieces to be assembled with a scarf joint.

 

No results found for scarfe

 

Did you mean SCARF

scarf - a tapered joint between pieces of similar section at the join. The plain scarf end is tapered to a feather edge requiring careful placing of the fastenings if splitting is to be avoided. Nibbing of this edge in combination with a slight rabbet will reduce risk of splitting as well as any tendency for the outer edge to lift if the scarf is on a bend. (s:emk) (aka scarph, scarve, scarfe). Two particular scarves are in common use on capping rails where good locks is more important than strength; the bird’s eye (rounded) and the bird’s mouth (sharp). In scarving, a ratio of scarf length to member thickness of 8:1 allows 85% of original strength to be maintained, 4:1 gives 65%. Lloyds stipulate 6:1 ratio for keel/stem scarves, and minimum 4:1 for plank scarves, which may not be within 4 foot of another scarf on adjacent planks, and scarves must be three clear strakes apart if on same frame. The scarf taper must face to the rear of the boat externally. (s:fbs) For glued plywood scarves, ratios must lie between 8:1 and 12:1. (see also splice)

 

scarfe, a note - The scarfe joint on the Gokstad ship's posts (by eye) appear to be straightforward oblique scarfes, (i.e. not lipped scarfes like those in the Knarr replica constructed at Roskilde 2000). They appear to be of about 15 degrees, the wood at the fore being some 5cm sided (broad, as seen from the front of the ship, looking aft) and the hook covers vertically some 24cm up the height of the post.

 

scarf - (perh. from Swedish skarfva, from scarf, a seam), v.t. To join the ends of (timber) by means of a scarf-joint. n, A joint made by bevelling or notching so that the thickness is not increased, and then bolting or strapping together; a cut, a groove (s:ced) (cf. splice)

 

scarfe - (see scarf)

 

scarph - (see scarf)

 

scarve - (see scarf)

 

Call this one a draw?

[Hairy-Neil]

scarf - (perh. from Swedish skarfva, from scarf, a seam)

 

My great great great grandfather would probably have known.......He was a Brit working as a shipwright in Sweden when my great great grandfather was born out there to a Swedish mother. Family legend has it that she was related to John Ericsson, inventor? of the screw propellor and a competitor at the Rainhill Trials among other things......

[Keeping Up]

Sorry allan. It was meant to be amusing but turned out not. I was going to link to your site but got so excited about my first successful picture posting that I didn't bother.

Actually Carl once I'd got over the shock of suddenly seeing a picture of my old boat, it DID make me laugh!

 

Allan

[Richard Fairhurst]

I've heard it said there are people who can identify Big Ricky's by the position of the scarfs......

That's how we (or, at least, Alec) worked out that Hagley was Hagley...!

 

Fuzzyduck - have you asked Jem Bates?

[Hairy-Neil]

That's how we worked out that Hagley was Hagley...!

 

But can you still identify it as Hagley from those old photographs............or rather, has Jem Bates restored it or rebuilt it?

 

......I note from reading your website that some of 'original' bottom and sides survive.