Servicing windows, and Volt/Ammeters... plus gas lockers and ballast! and PC fans!

[Rendelf]

Greetings boaty-types,

 

Thanks to you all for being a community! I've done a lot of reading and learning here over the last year or so. My partner and I recently bought our first home...using a lot of knowledge gleaned from this site. The previous owners of our boat did not know about maintenance. We are most happy, and are only just starting to be aware of the list of jobs we need to do that is longer than our arms...lopped off and arranged consecutively!!

 

 

Though I've read a fair bit, and searched a fair bit, I still have a few questions. Any and all advice/criticism/sarcasm gratefully accepted.

 

 

1. Windows. Our boat has standard hopper windows. From what I can see, they are the same basic ones that are still sold now. They are screwed to the outer hull with (probably) stainless screws. The seals are gone, or covered in moss and other interesting flora/fauna. One is broken, but has been replaced by a piece of perspex.

 

a. Is there a useful guide/youtube/advice that anyone can point me to on putting in new neoprene/rubber?

b. Two of our seven windows appear to be double glazed... the frames are the same throughout, but two windows contain double panes. This doesn't seem too crazy: neoprene in the centre, and rubber on the external glass. Is it possible to do this to all the others too? My impression is that (having taken the panelling off of one already) I must remove the entire frame from the hull to achieve this. From what I've read, this is not a great idea, because by removing the frames I can damage them, and also break whatever sealant is present behind them. We will need to repaint the boat soon too...

 

 

 

2. Ammeter/voltmeter. Without repeating the reasons one might desire such devices, my question is: Though the battery bank is in the engine room, we tend to be at the other end of the boat, living aboard. I'd like to get some cheapy ebay digi-meters so I can keep an eye on the batteries. I'd attach the voltmeter to a 'trunk' line of cable that I have running up both sides of the boat: nice and thick copper. As far as I know, that'd be a good reflection. In terms of the Ammeter... I have less idea. Where do I place the shunt? The device I want to measure is the battery... so...negative cable next to the bank? or positive...I am unsure. If it is possible, can I still have a pretty readout or gauge in the livingroom, or will the distance destroy the accuracy?

 

3. Gas locker.

 

Our gas locker is wet. The drains (for gas) are slightly under the water line when the front watertank is full. The locker is at the prow. That, combined with bottles going in and out, has resulted in a rusty box. The surveyor who looked the boat over said that it wasn't fatal, but did need to be addressed.... he suggested removing ballast from the front of the boat. There is a space beneath the front deck, inside the boat, where the underlying marine ply is exposed.... should I cut a hatch out of this and get my hands on...a lump of cement? Would this cause other problems!?

 

The other alternative was to raise the level of the locker by welding a new floor in... though I suspect that this would be expensive.

 

In terms of the locker, my plan is to wirebrush all of the rust away, and then treat with Hammerite. I've been told that once treated, a rubber mat and greased walls will prevent further dings....

 

4. PC fans.

 

Last question! Has anyone tried putting PC fans inside mushroom vent intakes above kitchens or bathrooms? Do they make much difference?

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

Ren

Edited May 4, 2015 by Rendelf

[Phil Ambrose]

Hi Rendelf, I have only limited knowledge of removing windows so will leave that for someone else, as far as the meters are concerned my choice was to bite the bullet and buy a proper battery monitor, as a liveaboard of 15 years it has proved to be money well spent. Mine shows main bank voltage, starter voltage, amps going in and out, amp/hrs used and percentage used. Wouldn't worry too much about having it in the saloon, it's not something you will need to be constantly watching.

The pooter fan in the mushroom is something others have done, I use them to circulate air in a couple of places but for my galley I fitted a new UFO vent with a 2 speed extractor fan which does a good job, when outside I can tell what my wife is cooking or if she has burnt the toast. LOL

Phil

Edited May 4, 2015 by Phil Ambrose

[Arnot]

Welcome and I hope it all works well for you. It's a lovely life on a boat but it is a paradigm shift and a sharp learning curve...

 

I will offer my advice, based on my experience and I'm sure you will have lots more, some contradictory. But - it's all well meant and constructive.

 

Windows - I have only done this a couple of times and it's not a nice job. The neoprene seals tend to be proprietary and can be a problem to get unless you know who made the windows. What I did discover was that the seals tend not to deteriorate too much despite the appearance and I had some success by cleaning them in a warm weak bleach and detergent solution followed with some thinners to remove historic over painting.

Getting the frames out is a pane, they will probably have been fixed in place with sealant and then screwd tight, even when you get the screws out the frame will still be stuck fast. It's best to try to remove the screws with an impact screwdriver, at least to loosen them. If you do break one or round it off, use a cobalt drill (carefully)to get it out, a normal drill will not fare well on stainless. My way of removing the frames was to arm myself with a range of slim wooden wedges and one of those old bone handled table knives a bit like a pallet knife, suitably sharpened. Then I slid it between the frame and the hull and cut away at the sealant. Slowly, with care, it started to move and when this happened I inserted a wedge to keep the "pull" on. Eventually they did come out but it took time.

 

Ammeter/voltmeter - I would recommend the Victron BMV 700, I have used these for years, installed countless numbers of them and they give you all the information you could desire and more. Better yet, they can be used for an audible warning and retain a history of the limits which can be invaluable in diagnosing problems. Any voltmeter needs to be wired directly to the battery (with appropriate fusing) to give an accurate reading, tagging onto internal wiring will not give readings that can be relied on. Installing the BMV 700 is quite easy and the cat5 lead used to connect the display to the shunt can easily be extended if required and won't compromise the accuracy.

 

Gas Locker - these are traditionally rusty but it's best not to let it get out of control. Cleaning it out is just hard and dirty work. My suggestion would be to clean the worst off and then treat it with Owatrol CIP. This is an anti corrosive paint intended for use on rusty and pitted steelwork. As long as you make sure the surface is good and dry it will seep into the porosity and give you a sound substrate for any paint you use as a top coat if you want to. My experience is that hammerite doesn't work so well in the long term on damp pitted steel but on my boat, difficult areas that I painted with CIP six years ago are still sound.

On the matter of ballast, I wouldn't rush into this until you have moved in and got settled as long as the trim isn't atrocious. Then, try to collect steel, it's density is far greater than concrete or cement.

 

Kitchen and Bathroom Fans - yes I have done this, no it's not difficult and yes it is effective. I tend to use a low noise 80mm ball bearing fan made by Papst. Difficult to get hold of but usually available on fleabay. Get the lowest noise ones you can, the cheapies sound like a mosquito on steroids.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Arnot

[MisterDave]

PC fans inside mushroom vent intakes.

 

Use good quality fans. Cheap computer fans (especially ones with rifle bearings) have a limited life. When exposed to even a small amount of moisture that life falls by an order of magnitude. I set 2 "Akasa" fans up with a solar panel in an outdoor composting toilet and they were dead in about 4 months, the replacement EBM Papst fans were still running fine after about 5 years. (I assume they're still running now, 9 years later, because I haven't been called back to replace them.) Arnot states above that Papst are difficult to get hold of, but uk.farnell.com carries the vast majority of the Papst range as well as the equally good Sanyo range. NMB can be a good brand too (I've had an NMB running in a piece of equipment pretty much 24/7 since 1998).

[Rendelf]

Thanks all!

 

Have bought some 'Arctic Cooling' fans with 'fluid dynamic' bearings.... will check out the Papst ones too.

 

The windows are Channel Glaze... and seem to be in good shape, despite the seals and neoprene being entirely absent in some cases!

 

In terms of don'tballasthinkt, it's not that we need to add it, but to remove it. We're moved onto the boat now... and despite not having built a bed at the back yet, I don't imagine that the trim will change much.

 

It appears that the original build had some sort of Aga in the centre. Previous owners pulled this out and added a large Morso stove at the front...which also has water tank and gas storage.

 

The waterline remains IN the gas locker!

 

Do you think I should add ballast to the rear, or remove from the front as the surveyor suggested?

[Phil Ambrose]

Remove from the front and if necessary add to the stern.

Phil

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

Do you think I should add ballast to the rear, or remove from the front as the surveyor suggested?

That rather depends on where your bum sits at the moment

[Rendelf]

Thanks. When moored, the bum is slightly lower than the ....cock? Yet the locker still has water sloshing in. I climbed in there and scraped two buckets of silt and rust out...so I'm very keen to get it dry.

 

The rudder is just proud of the water level...

 

There's also an old diesel tank on the deck from a bubble stove. Do you imagine that a chandlry will take it ? Are they worth anything?

[Rendelf]

Remove from the front and if necessary add to the stern.

Phil

Thanks Phill.

 

I'm a bit new to this... so have yet to see ballast! It's a generic term...but I'm guessing lumps of concrete or similar beneath the ply. Are there standardish sizes? Only, the space that would be sensible to cut (where the flooring stops and underlying ply is exposed) is beneath the deck, and quite restricted.

 

I suppose I should take a jigsaw to it, and make a front inspection hatch!

[jake_crew]

Ballast could be anything :-

 

Paving slabs (whole or broken), bricks, steel scrap, rail sections, 56 lb weights, lead.

 

As to where the ballast is ? Probably under the floor in the living accommodation.

 

The water tank is likely to be under the front well-deck, so be careful with that jig-saw (Eugene !).

[Phil Ambrose]

Take heed of Jake, he is very wise.

Phil

[5thHorseman]

<snip>

 

Gas Locker - these are traditionally rusty but it's best not to let it get out of control. Cleaning it out is just hard and dirty work. My suggestion would be to clean the worst off and then treat it with Owatrol CIP. This is an anti corrosive paint intended for use on rusty and pitted steelwork. As long as you make sure the surface is good and dry it will seep into the porosity and give you a sound substrate for any paint you use as a top coat if you want to. My experience is that hammerite doesn't work so well in the long term on damp pitted steel but on my boat, difficult areas that I painted with CIP six years ago are still sound.

On the matter of ballast, I wouldn't rush into this until you have moved in and got settled as long as the trim isn't atrocious. Then, try to collect steel, it's density is far greater than concrete or cement.

 

<snip>

Hope this helps...

 

Arnot

- as Arnot says but I have put a few plastic interlocking decking tiles down so the water drains from under the cylinders. It also stops them grinding the paint surface when you change them or have an oops moment and make contact with something immoveable.

 

Windows - Rendelf if you are going to have the boat repainted and use a boatyard to do it I would leave the windows and get it all done at the same time.

You did not say if they were currently leaking if they are I would clean them down by scrubbing with hot soapy water, allow them to dry thoroughly and then use some "Captain Tolley's creeping crack cure" on them. (not a wind up honestly - http://www.captaintolley.com/ - wonderfull stuff)

 

ETA - comment on windows

Edited May 6, 2015 by 5thHorseman

[Rendelf]

Thanks. Have just ordered some CIP. Will try and pull out a little ballast, and see if I can keep the locker dry long enough to paint it! It's been under water for some years, based on the visible water line.... So stopping the rusty isa good plan.

 

The integral water tank is rusting too... So that'll be another fun job for me. Do you guys think I can also prime with CIP before adding a special water tank paint?

[5thHorseman]

Empty the water tank, fill the fuel tank, unhook the gas cylinders and put them on the back deck would be a good start

Edited May 7, 2015 by 5thHorseman

[Sea Dog]

Hi Rendelf,

 

I don't think anyone's mentioned yet that your gas locker should be freely vented to atmosphere at its lowest point to prevent the dangerous build up of any leaking gas (which is heavier than air). If your locker has water in the bottom that hasn't run away, either it hasn't got a vent, it's blocked, or it's below your current waterline. All of these situations are bad and should be remedied as a higher priority than the paintwork in there.

 

Sounds like you've got your hands full! Best wishes.