Speed limits

[Big Steve]

Can anyone tell me if speed limits vary much on rivers? E.g. the Trent has some big boats on it, surely they aren't limited to 4 mph?

[NB Alnwick]

Can anyone tell me if speed limits vary much on rivers? E.g. the Trent has some big boats on it, surely they aren't limited to 4 mph?

 

There are various speed limits - some more strictly enforced than others. The general rule is the same as on the canals - that you avoid making a wash because of the harm it causes to banks and wildlife. Wherever you go it is always advisable to check local guides and notices.

[Supermalc]

As far as I know, the Trent is 6mph upstream, and 8mph downstream......until you get to Gainsborough, then you can go as fast as you like.

 

The Witham is 6mph......there is a sign opposite the Packet Inn at Dogdyke.

 

There are short unrestricted sections on the Trent for skiing etc. And lower sections past moorings in several places.

 

Lots of interest in this topic if you do a search.

 

If you're really interested......just time yourself over a kilometer.

 

[magnetman]

Speed limit on the Thames above Teddington is 8 Km/h which is 5mph. They have speed guns now apparently

 

GPS is the most reliable way of obtaining your speed because the limit (Thames) is defined as the speed travelled over the bed of the river so if there is flow then a boat based speedometer wouldn't do.

 

This causes a problem for boats without GPS and the EA have installed, at certain locations, pairs of red marker triangles on black and white posts. When one pair of these are in line start the stopwatch, if you get to the next pair in under a minute you were speeding. These posts are also good to see how FAST you can go - time yourself between the posts, divide 60 by the result in seconds then multiply by 8 to get your speed in Km/h.

[seaandland]

Watch out for the speed cop hiding behind the ducks

[GRPCruiserman]

There is no speed limit on The River Ribble or River Douglas, they are counted as the sea.

(They form part of the 'Ribble Link' access).

[WJM]

It is not really about speed, it is about wash - and that is about the depth of the water and the displacement of your boat

 

As an experiment I measured my speed using a GPS while on the Trent & Mersey - normal 'no-wash' speed actually was 4mph! But now I am based on the Grand Union and the Thames I am sure it must be a little higher.

 

You dont need a GPS, you need to glance over your shoulder every now and then.

[magnetman]

If you want to avoid being done for speeding by the environment agency, who apparently have got speed guns (don't know how lairy they are with them though) then you need to keep your speed below 8kmh over the bed of the river. That's best accomplished using a GPS.

 

Their main problem is with Gin Palaces which kick up large breaking waves behind them and the big 'london boats' which come up from Westminster to Hampton court, like the Connaught and Kingswood, they make massive wash, I used to kayak through it when I was little - great fun but does do the banks in.

 

I'm not sure if just because you make 'minimal wash' you would be allowed to exceed the speed limit.

Edited February 22, 2007 by magnetman

[Supermalc]

GPS is the most reliable way of obtaining your speed because the limit (Thames) is defined as the speed travelled over the bed of the river so if there is flow then a boat based speedometer wouldn't do.

 

I would definately have agreed with you ........ had I not experienced seeing the difference between two. I was having a short trip on a boat with a fixed GPS. This was before I had lost my hand held one, and was still 'playing' with it.

 

The fixed (expensive) one said 4mph. My Garmin Etrex Legend said 5.4mph. I later checked mine by measuring the time between the kilometer posts, which must be the most accurate measurement. Mine was correct.

 

I've also read of this variation several times now, mainly by the yachties who of course use them extensively.

[Keeping Up]

If you want to avoid being done for speeding by the environment agency, who apparently have got speed guns (don't know how lairy they are with them though) then you need to keep your speed below 8kmh over the bed of the river.

Which can be a bit of a problem if you find yourself on a river that's flowing at 10km/h

[magnetman]

Which can be a bit of a problem if you find yourself on a river that's flowing at 10km/h

Yes, I suppose the way would be to drive the boat against the flow (to retain steering capability) at 2 km/h over the water to produce an 8km/h speed over the ground then just whip it round by the weir before the lock cut gets too narrow to turn.

[Keeping Up]

Yes, I suppose the way would be to drive the boat against the flow (to retain steering capability) at 2 km/h over the water to produce an 8km/h speed over the ground then just whip it round by the weir before the lock cut gets too narrow to turn.

Yes that would work. But there's no way I'd want to turn broadside to a fast current just above a weir!

 

I believe the speed limits used to be quoted as speed relative to the water, which was far more sensible, but (I was told) it was changed to being speed over land because the EA could measure it more easily than they could measure your speed through the water.

[WJM]

"I'm not sure if just because you make 'minimal wash' you would be allowed to exceed the speed limit"

 

 

I regularly run racing kayaks at 12 or 14 mph past EA and PLA launches on the Thames with no comment - same goes for rowing eights etc. - they look for wash, not absolute speed. But they need a definitive record of the speed to make enforcements on the heavies.

[fender]

Which can be a bit of a problem if you find yourself on a river that's flowing at 10km/h

 

I have been viewing this with interest. I thought exactly the same, and in fact last year on the fast flowing Thames a couple of us narrowboaters were going well in excess of the speed limit just to keep the boats in control. The total culuminatve speed I think may have been around 15-17kmh and hardly any wash. Despite advice to tie up and wait we were allowed to proceed at our own risk. There wasnt very much hope of waiting for the flow to subside, because of the locks closing for the big winter stoppages (including Boulter's, Bray, Penton Hook and Chertsey)

 

(therefore I dont see how imposing 'land' speed limits is of any help)

Edited February 22, 2007 by fender

[NB Alnwick]

"I'm not sure if just because you make 'minimal wash' you would be allowed to exceed the speed limit"

I regularly run racing kayaks at 12 or 14 mph past EA and PLA launches on the Thames with no comment - same goes for rowing eights etc. - they look for wash, not absolute speed. But they need a definitive record of the speed to make enforcements on the heavies.

 

We were waved at to slow down by a couple of uniformed guys in an EA launch last year near Windsor.

It was all very friendly, and they gave a cheery wave when I cut the engine from 350 rpm to about 275 rpm. I guess we were doing a little over 8 Knots which is what we thought the speed limit boards mean't until we realised that they mean 8 kph which is about 5 Knots on still water.

 

That's why I mentioned in my earlier post the importance of reading local notices - we didn't . . .

[magnetman]

"I'm not sure if just because you make 'minimal wash' you would be allowed to exceed the speed limit"

I regularly run racing kayaks at 12 or 14 mph past EA and PLA launches on the Thames with no comment - same goes for rowing eights etc. - they look for wash, not absolute speed. But they need a definitive record of the speed to make enforcements on the heavies.

 

When I lived on the river as a boy, with my little low wash speedboat, not dissimilar to the cox's boats shouting their heads off at the rowers, I was certainly not permitted to break the speed limit. I believe that people engaged in sporting actvities may have separate regulations.

[Alastair]

The Yorkshire Ouse is unlimited for some of the tidal stretches, and 6knots above Naburn lock.

 

It's usually measured over the water. although the patrol officer moors up before getting out his radar gun.

[fuzzyduck]

speed limits do not normally apply to unpowered vessels.

 

This is normally quite simply due to the fact that sailing vessels cannot regulate their speed as easily as motor vessels.

 

I've had great fun on the Norfolk broads on really blowy days, by overtaking motor cruisers who are pottering along at 4Mph, while i'm one the plane at about 8 to 10 Mph. ohh the looks. one day i'm going to get an 18 foot skiff on the Trent on a good blowy day.

 

[magnetman]

speed limits do not normally apply to unpowered vessels.

 

I was thinking of the cox boat with outboard motor caning it along next to the unpowered vessel, they must have exemptions, they do make a fair wash specially the twin hulled ones.

[fuzzyduck]

and that's caused by my completely misreading your post.

 

and that's caused by me being an idiot.

[magnetman]

I believe you may have more important things to worry about than reading my waffle.

[fuzzyduck]

nope, right now I have nothing better to do than read your posts, and I think i might have another 1/2 hour or so. bliss.

[Howard]

When you come to any Thames lock, ask them for a copy of the Users Guide , it gives you a little chart in there of how long it should take you between each lock if you are travelling at the correct speed limit ....

 

Be careful about attributing blame for bank collapses unless you have the evidence to back it up , stuff posted on forums is now admissable as evidence (in a defamation / libel suit for example ) ..... I haven't heard about this particular collapse so can't comment.

 

They don't hide behind ducks with the speed guns, they just position themselves very obviously so they can get a 'bounce' off you ....

 

Some coaching launches are exempt from the speed limit (although they are limited to a particular one per boat , it varies ) these boats will display a pennant when doing so .... also the RNLI / police / fire (not St John Ambulance , who like to think that they are) boats are exempt when travelling to an incident...

 

To be honest, as has been stated , it's more about wash , you will get some boats that kick up a hell of a wash at 5 knots, so naturally they have to travel slower ...... and you'll always get one smart arse who will try to tell you ' I was on the plane, so i wasn't putting up any wash'

 

The whole point about boating on the canals and rivers, is that there is no rush to get anywhere , so no need to speed . If you are concerned about how long a journey is taking you , perhaps the river isn't for you .....

[magnetman]

Be careful about attributing blame for bank collapses unless you have the evidence to back it up , stuff posted on forums is now admissable as evidence (in a defamation / libel suit for example ) ..... I haven't heard about this particular collapse so can't comment.

 

duly edited. Thanks 4 the advice

Edited February 22, 2007 by magnetman

[Howard]

No worries, don't want to see anyone in trouble ......