Springers

[warlock]

HI All,

As you know I'm in the market for a NB, I've been advised to stay away from Springers but I've seen what appears to be a really tidy one. Are they really rubbish? What makes them bad?

Cheers, Warlock.

[David Schweizer]

HI All,

As you know I'm in the market for a NB, I've been advised to stay away from Springers but I've seen what appears to be a really tidy one. Are they really rubbish? What makes them bad?

Cheers, Warlock.

Considering the number that are still around in good order, I would certainly consider it, but get a survey done, the standards were not consistent.

[magnetman]

They were built quite thin but as said there are loads still around and they do make up an important part of the scenery, like the 'new boat' of the 1970's. Hull plating thickness would be my worry I think definitely worth a close look and a good hammering.

[warlock]

They were built quite thin but as said there are loads still around and they do make up an important part of the scenery, like the 'new boat' of the 1970's. Hull plating thickness would be my worry I think definitely worth a close look and a good hammering.

The one I've seen has been replated anyway so the bottom and sides are about 6-7mm..is that acceptable?

[Hairy-Neil]

They were usually built from 3mm steel. When a "normal" narrowboat is inspected and a surveyer finds steel corroded down to 3mm thickness he recommends overplating/refooting so you can see they were marginal from day one. Springers have been gone now for 10 - 12 ??? years now so there's been plenty of time for neglect to take its toll.

 

Edited to take account of crossed posts....

 

But if its been rebottomed/refooted already then maybe ok. Don't even think about it without a full survey....

Edited February 2, 2007 by Hairy-Neil

[warlock]

They were usually built from 3mm steel. When a "normal" narrowboat is inspected and a surveyer finds steel corroded down to 3mm thickness he recommends overplating/refooting so you can see they were marginal from day one. Springers have been gone now for 10 - 12 ??? years now so there's been plenty of time for neglect to take its toll.

 

Edited to take account of crossed posts....

 

But if its been rebottomed/refooted already then maybe ok. Don't even think about it without a full survey....

 

Well what do you think of this

Edited February 2, 2007 by warlock

[Yamanx]

I think its pretty good from the description and photographs, you will need to look at it in more detail, lift some covers etc. I'm sure he'd do a deal on that price as its top priced.

 

Go to stage two I say.

[warlock]

I think its pretty good from the description and photographs, you will need to look at it in more detail, lift some covers etc. I'm sure he'd do a deal on that price as its top priced.

 

Go to stage two I say.

Yeah I was gonna get a deal because I can't afford 25k..what's stage 2? Go for a look? I've emailed him to arrange one if it is.

[magnetman]

DO have a good look at the back deck boards and steel drainage channels. for that money they'd want to be good and on a boat which has been overplated underwater there's a fair chance the steelwork will be quite bad unless they have been renewed.

 

I personally think that boat looks overpriced and perhaps there's something to do with a marina mooring etc etc. I'd think closer to 20k for a 40ft springer even with a new bum on it.

[warlock]

Over plated under water water? How do you know that?

[carlt]

DO have a good look at the back deck boards and steel drainage channels. for that money they'd want to be good and on a boat which has been overplated underwater there's a fair chance the steelwork will be quite bad unless they have been renewed.

 

I personally think that boat looks overpriced and perhaps there's something to do with a marina mooring etc etc. I'd think closer to 20k for a 40ft springer even with a new bum on it.

I agree, there are a lot to choose from and not many that dear, especially with a private sale. I'd shop around and I'm sure a 40' hull from a 'better' builder will be out there for around the 20k mark.

[magnetman]

No I don't mean when it was IN the water I mean all of its underwater surfaces are claimed to have been overplated and if that was found to be necessary then it logically makes sense that the rest of the boat, being the same age, may have defects...

edit: And the rails supporting the back deck and draining it are very prone to corrosion.

Edited February 2, 2007 by magnetman

[warlock]

No I don't mean when it was IN the water I mean all of its underwater surfaces are claimed to have been overplated and if that was found to be necessary then it logically makes sense that the rest of the boat, being the same age, may have defects...

AAAH I see..I was thinking it would be easier to replate it out of the water..silly me..cheers for the info.

[IanS]

As a Springer owner myself I thought I must have my say:-

 

They were built over many years it is very hard to find a standard spec. for these boats (eg. our boat is 38.5 ft in length & has a 6mm bottom & 4mm sides & top, built in 1989). Yes it is all wavy down the sides & you can see where all the welds are; however the actual design/engineering is far better than many new boats being sold now, it just doesn't look so pretty.

 

The cost sounds high but I am sure there is room for negotiation in that - find out who replated it & see if they are a reputable company, if you are happy then definately have a survey, its always a good negotiation tool & what price do you put on peace of mind.

 

Regards

Ian

[magnetman]

As a Springer owner myself I thought I must have my say:-

 

They were built over many years it is very hard to find a standard spec. for these boats (eg. our boat is 38.5 ft in length & has a 6mm bottom & 4mm sides & top, built in 1989). Yes it is all wavy down the sides & you can see where all the welds are; however the actual design/engineering is far better than many new boats being sold now, it just doesn't look so pretty.

 

The cost sounds high but I am sure there is room for negotiation in that - find out who replated it & see if they are a reputable company, if you are happy then definately have a survey, its always a good negotiation tool & what price do you put on peace of mind.

 

Regards

Ian

 

Definitely. Only slight problem is there are reputable companies who will see someone coming and bodge a new bottom on. I know of one such very reputable boatyard, one of the best respected in the area, but they did over a friend of mine and a few years later her boat came out and the bottom had to be rewelded after just a few years. A survey definitely worthwhile with a replated boat.

[carlt]

I'd still shop around. There are several on B&O's first page of narrowboats that look better hulls and that's going back less than a fortnight.

 

I'd still shop around. There are several on B&O's first page of narrowboats that look better hulls and that's going back less than a fortnight.

 

Sorry...have a link

 

Boats and Outboards

[warlock]

I'd still shop around. There are several on B&O's first page of narrowboats that look better hulls and that's going back less than a fortnight.

Sorry...have a link

 

Boats and Outboards

Cheers for that but once you factor in my limitations, 38-42ft and less than 22k..and ideally not too far away from surrey the list soon shrinks

Edited February 2, 2007 by warlock

[blackrose]

I used to have a Springer and that one looks very tidy from the photos. It's not just that the overplating & repairs would have been done - they must have been done professionally. When I had some overplating done the welder (a coded welder), put the boat back in the water and watched it very carefully. He said he'd have to keep it there for a day to keep an eye on it. As a new boater I didn't really understand but it's very easy to have a small hole in the welding which then lets water between the hull & the new plate. You can imagine the consequences of that. I guess he was looking for tell tale bubbles.

 

It does seem pricey for a 40' Springer though. I sold my 45' for 16K but that was 5 years ago.

Edited February 2, 2007 by blackrose

[alan_fincher]

Whilst it looks well presented, it does seem a lot more expensive than I'd expect for what's on offer.

 

In my experience you can usually expect the price to be significantly less for a boat of this length (40 foot), versus one of 50 feet or more.

 

You don't say if you want it as a liveaboard, or not, but unless they are missing quite a bit from the details, then it's spec is in some areas more like a summer cruising boat, than one you might live on all year.

 

I can't see mentioned....

 

Calorifier

Any heating, beyond the Squirrel in the rear corner, (if you are relying on just a solid fuel stove, they heat the boat more evenly if more centrally located).

 

Also

 

It has only one domestic battery, (How much space to fit any more, if required ?).

What's the arrangement at the bows, front doors ? (It has a cratch cover, so presumably there is a well deck below that, but inside it looks like a bed goes cross ways, with no full height doors ?)

 

I've certainly seen newer boats of this length, similarly equipped, and (on the face of it) as well presented, for significantly less.

 

I agree entirely about a survey. Overplating is something where a bodged job is all too easy to disguise...

 

Alan

[warlock]

Whilst it looks well presented, it does seem a lot more expensive than I'd expect for what's on offer.

 

In my experience you can usually expect the price to be significantly less for a boat of this length (40 foot), versus one of 50 feet or more.

 

You don't say if you want it as a liveaboard, or not, but unless they are missing quite a bit from the details, then it's spec is in some areas more like a summer cruising boat, than one you might live on all year.

 

I can't see mentioned....

 

Calorifier

Any heating, beyond the Squirrel in the rear corner, (if you are relying on just a solid fuel stove, they heat the boat more evenly if more centrally located).

 

EDIT..if the stove is the only form of heating I'll get an eco-fan..good idea?

 

It has only one domestic battery, (How much space to fit any more, if required ?).

What's the arrangement at the bows, front doors ? (It has a cratch cover, so presumably there is a well deck below that, but inside it looks like a bed goes cross ways, with no full height doors ?)

 

I've certainly seen newer boats of this length, similarly equipped, and (on the face of it) as well presented, for significantly less.

 

I agree entirely about a survey. Overplating is something where a bodged job is all too easy to disguise...

 

Alan

Yes I'm gonna use it as a live-aboard..The batteries I'm not too worried about as I can add more later (space permitting) but what's the problem with the bow doors? Sorry for all the question but I want to go and see it with as much knowledge as possible.

 

Cheers all.

Edited February 2, 2007 by warlock

[Hairy-Neil]

Rebottoming is fine if the old one is first removed...

 

Depending on the thickness used, overplating is not good as it leaves the rot in place and and prevents any treating of the new to preserve it.

[warlock]

Rebottoming is fine if the old one is first removed...

 

Depending on the thickness used, overplating is not good as it leaves the rot in place and and prevents any treating of the new to preserve it.

The ad does say rebuilt I think but I'll ask about that..cheers.

[magnetman]

I'd give you high odds against it having been properly rebottomed and refooted like an old workboat. Does this ever get done with boats fully fitted internally?

[Hairy-Neil]

The ad does say rebuilt I think but I'll ask about that..cheers.

 

Its cheaper to overplate than renew. Overplating can be done without stripping the interior of the boat whereas rebottoming would involves major upheaval of the boat interior. The former is little more than a bodge........unless really thick steel is used to make up for the fact that it can't ever be treated inside....

[alan_fincher]

Yes I'm gonna use it as a live-aboard..The batteries I'm not too worried about as I can add more later (space permitting) but what's the problem with the bow doors? Sorry for all the question but I want to go and see it with as much knowledge as possible.

 

Cheers all.

Regarding batteries, space isn't always permitting - you'll need to check there is space to add anything it doesn't currently have. Batteries really do need to have some access. Don't be tempted to think they can be lost into some inaccessible corner underneath something.

 

I'm not saying there is a problem at the bow, but generally if you have a front deck, you then have doors that go all the way down to it, leading into the cabin. (I hesitate to say "full height" doors, as often the water tank is under the deck, and you still have a significant step down to get inside).

 

Alternatively, (and quite often with smaller Springers), the cabin is sometimes built a long way forward, with no well deck, only the small area of deck at the bows. This gives more space inside, but usually sacrifices being able to get in and out easily at the bows, (or sit up the front enjoying scenery go past). In this case a couple of small opening doors are often provided, but whilst they make an escape route, you can't really think of them as a main access.

 

I may be missing something here, but the outside pictures look like there ought to have been a well deck, (but because there are only pictures with a cratch cover, you can't see what's under it). But what I take to be the front INSIDE, seems to have the bed across the bows, and no proper access doors obviously leading to a well deck at the front.

 

Perhaps I'm reading the pictures wrongly - see what others think.

 

I still think it's well overpriced, though!....