Thoughts on this engine...?

[Sabcat]

Or quite a bit more at 2,200 RPM, which is where some of them seem to be rated.

 

The comparison to an HA3 (33HP at 1,800RPM) just made is hardly valid - an HRW4 is getting on for twice an HA3 - more like an HA6.

 

Even an HA3 takes a bit of taming!

 

I think we can all agree that's it's a bloody powerful engine to be in a narrowboat. If it was me though, I'd still want to try the basics of getting it running right and see how useable it is before I went to the expense of pulling it out and sourcing something more narrowboat. If after satisfying myself that there was no diesel leaking into the sump and it still had more smoke coming out of it than a Rastas flat in the absence of any other simple possibilities I'd drop it.

[pbuk]

Thank you all for the replies. The boat is a narrowboat and was built for the Thames where I'm guessing the extra power would have been good against the current. I think it spent the last 18 months on the canals so not needed that power at all and it's probably what is giving rise to the problems. I think the prop is currently 17 inch so needs to be bigger but due to my lack of experience I'm not sure how that would help the situation, if at all. Would it be best to hang on to the engine repair the faults and make do or am I looking at a new engine. If a new/reconditioned engine, what would be the best for canal and occasional river, and how much am I looking at?

 

Many thanks for further advice.

[RLWP]

Why does it need to be bigger?

 

This smoke, what colour was it? If it was black, the prop is too big (unlikely). If it was white, the engine isn't firing properly. If it was blue, the engine is burning oil

 

And, if you don't want to become a Lister engine expert, and considerably poorer, walk away from this boat

 

Richard

[pbuk]

Apologies - I'm not sure if the prop needs to be bigger... it was just that was one of the things the present owner wanted to do and I've heard somewhere else that running a powerful engine with a small propellor can cause problems.

[pbuk]

Someone asked about the smoke - it was bluey- grey so I think it is burning oil.

Edited September 11, 2014 by pbuk

[RLWP]

Someone asked about the smoke - it was bluey- grey so I think it is burning oil.

 

Hmm, four sets of rings, potentially four pistons and rebored cylinders, could be four relined cylinders...

 

Richard

[Sabcat]

Why does it need to be bigger?

 

This smoke, what colour was it? If it was black, the prop is too big (unlikely). If it was white, the engine isn't firing properly. If it was blue, the engine is burning oil

 

And, if you don't want to become a Lister engine expert, and considerably poorer, walk away from this boat

 

Richard

 

I've just reread this thread, for some reason I though you'd already bought it. As you haven't, don't unless you get it at price that reflects replacing the engine.

[James Owen]

Yes obviously a HR is more powerful than a HW, of that there is no doubt. My post was purely meant to point out that it's all relative as four cylinder water cooled engines delivering 50hp in narrowboats are not uncommon these days.

The crucial aspect in determining the engines suitability for a given application which is often overlooked is reduction gearing and prop size.

[pbuk]

As a matter of interest what does the HR stand for? I guess W stands for Water-cooled.

[bizzard]

Hearing Ruined.

[alan_fincher]

As a matter of interest what does the HR stand for? I guess W stands for Water-cooled.

The later Lister engines tend to be known by the "series" they are in.

 

The "S" series engines are the smaller models, that tended to find favour in new build leisure boats, and were for a while almost ubiquitous in hire boats. The second letter really was a "generation" within that series, so the "S" series started as SL models, then became the very popular (and more powerful per cylinder) SR models and finally the (even more powerful per cylinder) ST models.

 

The "H" series engine were bigger and heavier, and more often used in commercial boats, and the initial "HA" and "HB" models, (which I understand to be near identical, but differently rated), eventually gave way to the considerably more powerful (but still similar looking) "HW"s.

 

I don't think the L, R, T, etc mean anything, unless Bizzard is right, and they progressed through Loud to Ridiclous and on to Terrible.

[pbuk]

The later Lister engines tend to be known by the "series" they are in.

 

The "S" series engines are the smaller models, that tended to find favour in new build leisure boats, and were for a while almost ubiquitous in hire boats. The second letter really was a "generation" within that series, so the "S" series started as SL models, then became the very popular (and more powerful per cylinder) SR models and finally the (even more powerful per cylinder) ST models.

 

The "H" series engine were bigger and heavier, and more often used in commercial boats, and the initial "HA" and "HB" models, (which I understand to be near identical, but differently rated), eventually gave way to the considerably more powerful (but still similar looking) "HW"s.

 

I don't think the L, R, T, etc mean anything, unless Bizzard is right, and they progressed through Loud to Ridiclous and on to Terrible.

Thanks Alan.

I think, as others have said, the issue with this engine is fuel leakage into the engine, diluting the oil, which is a problem with some of the Lister models... however due to a telephone conversation with an extremely helpful and gracious gent who is following this thread, I believe, though it involves a detailed process, it may not be as daunting to sort out as I first thought.

[RLWP]

I don't think the L, R, T, etc mean anything, unless Bizzard is right, and they progressed through Loud to Ridiclous and on to Terrible.

 

LR and SR are a part of the same series, the LR being the smaller version

 

Richard

Thanks Alan.

I think, as others have said, the issue with this engine is fuel leakage into the engine, diluting the oil, which is a problem with some of the Lister models... however due to a telephone conversation with an extremely helpful and gracious gent who is following this thread, I believe, though it involves a detailed process, it may not be as daunting to sort out as I first thought.

 

Be careful. Sorting out a diesel leak is one thing, that doesn't explain the smoke

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

Be careful. Sorting out a diesel leak is one thing, that doesn't explain the smoke

And even if you sort out both the diesel leak(s) and the smoke, the engine will still be far far too big for a narrow boat........

[FadeToScarlet]

And even if you sort out both the diesel leak(s) and the smoke, the engine will still be far far too big for a narrow boat........

I don't know, if your single purpose is to try and do well at the Rickmansworth tug of war.....

 

 

Although I think buying Chris a case of beers is cheaper and more likely to secure a positive result!

[Sabcat]

I'm wondering how much smoke there is and whether the HR is just one of those engines that burns a bit of oil. My ST3 and ST2 I had before it both burn oil, not huge plumes of smoke sufficient to hide my escape but enough blue smoke to be noticeable.

[pbuk]

Hello Sabcat,

 

Yes, it isn't billowing out of the exhaust and at times the smoke was pretty clear plus the engine had only been running about 5 - 10 minutes really.

[Alan de Enfield]

According to Lister

HRW4

 

4 cylinder

4180 CC's

4 1/4 x 4 1/4 Bore and stroke

62 Hp at 2200 rpm

1069 lbs weight

Direct diesel injection

HRW3

 

3135 cc

4 1/4 x 4 1/4 Bore and stroke

46.5. Hp at 2200 rpm

880 lbs weight

 

Edit decimal point (465 HP just looked so wrong)

Edited September 11, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Sabcat]

Hello Sabcat,

 

Yes, it isn't billowing out of the exhaust and at times the smoke was pretty clear plus the engine had only been running about 5 - 10 minutes really.

 

I dunno then, someone who knows more about that engine needs to comment.