Safe wind speed for boating

[Keeping Up]

Yes, thanks for that tip.

 

Trouble is you usually find out too late. It doesn't really matter with my boat, as there is plenty of room there, and if I go downstream I can turn in a clockwise direction.

From what Allen (Keeping Up) told me of his experience, I wouldn't have bow thrusters on any boat.

 

I'll let him tell you the story.........

Many bow thrusters don't have enough power to help in a really windy situation, especially if you're moving forwards at the time.

My story though (I can never resist the chance to tell a story) :

 

We were crewing on an old Dutch Barge conversion. Built from iron in the 19th century she weighed 80 tons and had a huge propellor which ran with its top one-third out of the water. The paddle-wheel effect was incredible, if you engaged reverse to slow down she turned 45 degrees to the left in an instant. She'd been fitted with a bow-thruster, but the startup surge would break the shear-pin regularly (we cured that later by fitting thinner battery cables to it).

 

We were approaching a busy Thames lock, from above. Straight in front of us was the lock, and on our left was the weir. The person steering was relying rather too heavily on the bowthruster, and had lined up to approach the lock with the stern straight on to the lock, intending to bring the bows in line by using the thruster and then go straight into the lock. But the shear-pin broke, which meant that not only were we still heading at an angle towards the weir, but if we engaged reverse we would spin the bows 45 degrees left directly towards it. The only option was to engage full ahead and power our way round to the right. The effect of 80 tons of venerable Dutch ironwork doing a full-power 360 degree turn amongst the gin palaces waiting for the lock, was a sight to be treasured! But not one to be repeated!

 

Allan

[Dr Bradley]

Somehow I don't think Supermalc has the space for a bowthrust!

 

May I ask who the "Old soldier" is that you are speaking about? My comments were meant to help.

 

Not aimed at anyone in particular, just a general comment - sorry if I offended.

Edited January 21, 2007 by Dr Bradley

[Supermalc]

Probably some pictures would help explain the situation more clearly.

 

 

This was my first trip to Boston on Naiad.

 

[GRPCruiserman]

What would you say is a safe maximum wind speed for a learner-boater in a 58ft narrowboat with a mind of its own?

 

If it 'feels' too strong, then it probably is. Get used to your boat first in wind-less conditions (difficult at the moment!!), then you will probably get a feel for how strong the wind needs to be to make things uncontrollable.

 

That isn't to say that the best of people (including me ) haven't been caught out especially when the wind gets up when you are out. You'll usually notice by the first bridge, so you can always turn round and come back (unless it's 10 miles to your next winding hole, of course!!). Get a crew member with a pole to stand on the bow when you go out!!

 

I took a 22 foot Norman cruiser out on The River Douglas bound for Freckleton (only about 5 miles) in near dead calm conditions, and by the time I'd got to The Ribble the wind had got up and the waves were about 4 foot high sending the bow up and then crashing down!! It was November, but the forecast was pretty good, it was just that the atmospheric pressure had dipped and the tide was running faster and higher than expected and the wind had got up more than expected, so the wind against the tide made it suddenly rough when the tide turned. Not usually a problem on the canal, though.

[Tiller Slave]

Strong winds and narrowboating dont mix very well.

 

However if you use the correct technic it is suprising what conditions you can safely cruise in.

 

BUT it depends on your level of experience and where you are boating!

 

If not much manovering is required i.e. few bridges, locks and moored boats you can go faster and hence keep more control in windy conditions.

 

If lots of manovering required; therefore lower speed/ momentum; a lower max wind speed for safely cruising.

 

Inexperience however can cause a lot of problems- i.e not knowing how bad the conditions actually are or what is coming up on the cut ( and do you have the ability to handle it in adverse conditions).

[Nemesis]

Why do I constantly hear myself saying the opposite to everyone else. Assuming a cross wind, the higher the wind speed the more power you should be using, if you find you have drifted into a bush and got stuck it's because you were driving too slowly. Dangerous !! how can driving a narrowboat along a canal ever be dangerous in any weather conditions.

 

On many occasions I have found myself with gale force winds on the bow, on the Bridgewater I remember getting wet from the spray coming over the cabin roof from the bows and another occasion crossing Wixall Moss on the Llangollen, similar spray effects but that time accompanied by heavy rain.

 

In my experience it is the lightweight cruisers that sometimes have problems with wind, narrowboats never.

The fun starts when you meet someone at a bridge on a bend at the last minute and have to give way (lots of reverse!!). You then get blown into the bank. I have on numerous occasions found myself 'sliding' along a curved bank trying to get up enough speed and flow over the rudder to get off the bank again. Does wonders for the paintwork.

Recently, I had to move the boat as I needed to be somewhere. I was crewing alone and the wind was pinning the boat to the bank. I was using the pole to push the bow as far out into the cust as the pole would allow then running back to the stern, I would throw the pole onto the roof, jump on, lots of power etc. etc. For the first 4 attempts, by the time I had jumped on at the stern, the wind had blown the bow back to the bank. To make matters worse, I was moored on the inside of a long bend. On the fith attempt, the wind had eased slightly and I managed to get away. Luckily, there were very few other boats out and about so I managed to get to my destination without having to stop again. All good exercise

[bottle]

Perhaps it would have been better to reverse out, you could have pushed the boat out, from the deck, with the pole and used the engine.

 

[Nemesis]

Perhaps it would have been better to reverse out, you could have pushed the boat out, from the deck, with the pole and used the engine.

 

 

Tried pushing stern out with the pole and reversing out but no luck. I was unable to get the bow off the bank and the wind just kept blowing me back. Even with lots of reverse, all I managed to do was scrape the bow along the bank until the stern hit the bank again. I tried to drive off by pushing the stern out then driving the stern towards the bank in the hope that the bow would come around enough to let me drive away but no such luck. Thats when I tried pushing the bow out as far as I could with the pole then running for the stern. To be honest, because of the wind, it took all my strength to push the bow out to the extent of the pole and I am fairly fit.

[Supermalc]

It has been mentioned that the safe speed of the wind, depends on the circumstances present at that time. The first time I was in strong wind on the Witham I found she handled well, and in fact it was only when I met a cruiser that was travelling at almost 45 degrees at times, I realized it was a gale force wind.

 

However coming back from my autumn trip up the Kyme, where the weed had been drawn to the surface, head wind not much more than a breeze almost caused us to have to abandon her.

 

When speed decreased to such a point that headway (steerage) was lost, the wind blew the bows around, so I was crossways to the canal. The flow was causing the weed to keep up with any progress we might have made. OK, we had made 'a rod for our own back' quite literally as it turned out by leaving the guillotine gate up for our return. Normal practise for this lock, as we would be returning in a short while. However there was a paddle missing on a gate; I had checked to see water was still flowing over the sluice, so we weren't emptying the river, but the extra flow dragged patches of weed from the bottom.

 

So after a decent run taking less than an hour to get to South Kyme, we soon hit patches of this weed coming back. On the second or third occasion, I was stranded crossways and it took about 20 minutes to get the few feet to the bank. One of the problems with having a short boat. The prop was so heavily weeded, both forward or reverse send the boat backwards, of course into more heavily weeded parts next to the bank. In the end my friend (who like me has problems limiting any 'athletics') valiently leapt onto the bank with front rope.

 

After a while we tried motoring along with one on the bank holding the front rope, so when we hit the next patch, we could at least keep pointing the right way. But at the next one the weed bunged the hole under the sea-cock, where the engine cooling water comes in (she is raw water cooled i.e. sucks the water straight out of the river/canal/sea whatever) and it was almost impossible to pull her through the patches of weed with ropes, especially in our condition. Of course there wan't a horse to be seen, just when you need one

 

Luckily the river soon cleared enough to allow us to continue, and I could clear the sea-cock by poking wire through it, but out 1 1/2 hour trip from leaving Chapel Hill, including getting through the lock, took about 5 hours to return.

[wrigglefingers]

I was in the same position as you last year with Surprise - 58' with a dodgy rudder, so I'm no expert and Bradford on Avon Marina is notorious locally for being wind swept; getting in and out of the marina in windy conditions proved to be extraordinarily difficult. I watched one of the most experienced crews not get into the marina for 40 minutes and need to be pulled into her berth by five pairs of hands and three poles on the weekend we took possession of Surprise.

 

I've found that anything other than a strong breeze was impossible if you were single-handed and very difficult even with polers. It was the gustiness of the wind that caused the most problems beyond all else. After all, a steady wind you can account for in steering but not for unexpected gusts. Lack of speed was as much a killer in gusty conditions as too much. (Have I come close to agreeing with John? I may need to sit down.....) However, it's case of know your own limits and those of the boat. They all handle differently but none seem to handle particularly well in the kind of wind we've had recently.

 

Jill

 

Caveat - there's always an exception .........

Edited January 23, 2007 by wrigglefingers

[cyclic]

Speaking pretty much as a novice, it is reassuring to see that the seasoned professionals get into a mess sometimes, and that they admit it.

 

It's all help for the newbies

 

Now I've got that off my chest, I'm going to be in "The George" Wooley Street, BOA, when the next winds come, or even Thursday, playing my squeezebox, if there are any other musicians out there.

 

C

[Guest]

Speaking pretty much as a novice, it is reassuring to see that the seasoned professionals get into a mess sometimes, and that they admit it.

It's all help for the newbies

 

Now I've got that off my chest, I'm going to be in "The George" Wooley Street, BOA, when the next winds come, or even Thursday, playing my squeezebox, if there are any other musicians out there.

 

C

An expert is: one who has made all the obvious mistakes, but survived.

[wrigglefingers]

Speaking pretty much as a novice, it is reassuring to see that the seasoned professionals get into a mess sometimes, and that they admit it.

 

It's all help for the newbies

 

Now I've got that off my chest, I'm going to be in "The George" Wooley Street, BOA, when the next winds come, or even Thursday, playing my squeezebox, if there are any other musicians out there.

 

C

 

Hey Chris,

 

You don't want to go to the George on Thursday, you want to come and play yer squeezebox with us at Mr Wilkins' Shilling at the Methodist Hall in Batheaston. There's currently two boat dwellers in the band and one learning to dance. It's all good, clean fun (which is more than we could say for the ever welcoming George). Occasionally, I get to the English session run by Chris Timson on alternate Mondays along with the rest of the band.

 

One day, Ally will bring her fiddle down and I'll persuade Bones to play something and we'll be able to put together a boating morris and ceildh band which would be fab. Now who wants to wear the clogs, hmmm? (entire forum runs for cover.....)

 

 

Shep

[cyclic]

Hey Chris,

 

You don't want to go to the George on Thursday, you want to come and play yer squeezebox with us at Mr Wilkins' Shilling at the Methodist Hall in Batheaston. There's currently two boat dwellers in the band and one learning to dance. It's all good, clean fun (which is more than we could say for the ever welcoming George). Occasionally, I get to the English session run by Chris Timson on alternate Mondays along with the rest of the band.

 

One day, Ally will bring her fiddle down and I'll persuade Bones to play something and we'll be able to put together a boating morris and ceildh band which would be fab. Now who wants to wear the clogs, hmmm? (entire forum runs for cover.....)

Shep

 

Maybe we should start a new topic and call it "Musical Boats" or similar, though in my defence this subject is loosely related to Wind, though not of the Hot Air variety, before someone else says it.

 

Sorry Shep. I'm already spoken for by Beetlecrushers, and a couple of other sides, and at the moment I'm not a 'Liveaboard' so only go to Bradford when I'm at Devizes, where I'm just off to now.

I haven't got connectivity there either, so can't, at the moment, do Internet.

 

Oh, I got the day wrong for the George session too. As you say.....alternate Mondays.

 

Chris