What's The Difference

[Barry]

between a Dutch Barge and a Replica Dutch Barge?

 

I'm thinking that a Dutch Barge might be the real McCoy, Cat C or B and capable of coastal travelling while a Replica Dutch Barge looks a lot like the real McCoy but is Cat D and so is limited to inland waterways

 

Am I right?

[magnetman]

between a Dutch Barge and a Replica Dutch Barge?

 

I'm thinking that a Dutch Barge might be the real McCoy, Cat C or B and capable of coastal travelling while a Replica Dutch Barge looks a lot like the real McCoy but is Cat D and so is limited to inland waterways

 

Am I right?

 

In my experience a real dutch barge looks like one and a replica dutch barge doesn't.

I don't know much about cats though.

Edited January 7, 2007 by magnetman

[Gary Peacock]

between a Dutch Barge and a Replica Dutch Barge?

 

I'm thinking that a Dutch Barge might be the real McCoy, Cat C or B and capable of coastal travelling while a Replica Dutch Barge looks a lot like the real McCoy but is Cat D and so is limited to inland waterways

 

Am I right?

 

The categories do not restrict use but are used to describe the markets that boats of each category can legally be described for use in.

 

It's more to do with selling description than actual capabilities.

 

A barge capable of Inshore (Coastal hopping) work but sold with category D certification for sheltered waters would be a lot cheaper than an identical one with category C certification for inshore use. i.e. You're paying for the paperwork.

 

In simple terms you are paying for the builder to be able to legally sell the boat with a description that is suitable for "Inshore Use" but what the owner wishers to use it for is in no way restricted by this certification.

 

A lot of people assume the RCD is part of MCA and international shipping regulations but in reality it is more to do with setting a minim Europe standard to place a boat on the open market.

 

I spend a lot of time with people who want a dutch barge (replica) when it comes down to it many don't know what there going to get, you can see some of the considerations that need to be considered here- Is A Dutch Barge Really For You?

 

You can see a typical modern replica dutch barge here- Thomas Replica Dutch Barge.

 

 

This boat maintains the flavour of a real dutch barge but is very much a recreational play thing when compared to the commercial nature and size of the original thing.

 

I am playing the devils advocate here because we build just about anything going including a variation on the bog standard narrow ditch crawler called a Barge Style Narrowboat maybe not the prettiest boat but it does make a very good live-aboard or long term cruiser.

 

Hope this helps!

[DHutch]

What's The Difference between a Dutch Barge and a Replica Dutch Barge?

Well bascaily as i see it a "Dutch Barge" is very much as decribed, a barge, made in the land of dutch.

- Build to a varity of diffrent shapes designs and sizes, for a varity of diffrent purpouses. Just like english barges, but diffrent!

 

A "replica dutch barge" is just that. A new build boat, built to imitate and reflect the style of the old dutch barges which have become so thought after.

 

Due to the large numbers of diffrent types and sizes of "dutch barge", there is no "right answer" when it comes to what they look like, and equally whats sold as a "replica" 'dutch barge' can vary almost out of recognition. From a near carbon copy of a eaxctly style (rair) , right the way though to what to me streaches even the title of "dutch stlye narrowboat" !

- So are little more than any other narowboat, with a few of the english features removed.

 

Builders are all to quick to slape the "dutch barge" sticker onto there latest shell, stick a zero on the end, and sell it to someone who wouldnt know a Luxemotor from a Tjalk if it hit them in the back of the head.

- While im not saying that thats nessaraly a bad thing, its creasing populatrity doesnt help explaning to people what a dutch barge actaully is!

 

I dont think any of the really has anything to with RCD catagories.

- Most of the authentic dutch barges where build long before the RCD has even been concepulaised!!

 

 

Daniel

 

SNB Emilyanne - "A dutch style narrowboat" - lol!

[blackrose]

Check out Ian's website enawll.

 

http://www.barging.co.uk/

[Barry]

Crikey - yes!! Ian's website is a mine of information - he's done a marvelous job there

 

Actually the DBA website was one of the first I looked at when I first started seriously considering living aboard but I confess I haven't read evey section yet.

 

I could seriously consider a Dutch Barge but I think it would have to wait until I retire in 4 years time because to afford it I would want to fit it it out myself. So it would make a fantastic retirement project - retirement at 55 with a liveable pension - I guess I'm very lucky

 

I'm suffering from a degree of impatience here though - I don't particularly want to wait 4 years to get my boat but it may be by far the most sensible option, financially.

 

Ah decisions decisions...................... still I don't actually have to make any decisions yet because I'm still very much in the research/feasability study stage

[Alastair]

Most 'real' dutch barges are old, Bazza, and often cheap. I've just sold one (the one in my avatar) for under £40k. She had two rooms a bit bigger than 10ft sqr, plus a shower toilet room, kitchen area and a storage space in the focastle that was nearly 10ftsqr.

 

It depends on whether you have your heart set on a new boat or not.

[Barry]

Most 'real' dutch barges are old, Bazza, and often cheap. I've just sold one (the one in my avatar) for under £40k. She had two rooms a bit bigger than 10ft sqr, plus a shower toilet room, kitchen area and a storage space in the focastle that was nearly 10ftsqr.

 

It depends on whether you have your heart set on a new boat or not.

 

Noticed your Avatar on other posts you have made - It's a beautiful shape and very appealing - Am I right in thinking that new builds can have this shape easily - I ask because I see a lot of pictures of Dutch Barges that have a very different style, much sharper and more vertical at the stem to varying degrees and quite chunky looking

[elessina]

Well bascaily as i see it a "Dutch Barge" is very much as decribed, a barge, made in the land of dutch.

- Build to a varity of diffrent shapes designs and sizes, for a varity of diffrent purpouses. Just like english barges, but diffrent!

 

A "replica dutch barge" is just that. A new build boat, built to imitate and reflect the style of the old dutch barges which have become so thought after.

 

Due to the large numbers of diffrent types and sizes of "dutch barge", there is no "right answer" when it comes to what they look like, and equally whats sold as a "replica" 'dutch barge' can vary almost out of recognition. From a near carbon copy of a eaxctly style (rair) , right the way though to what to me streaches even the title of "dutch stlye narrowboat" !

- So are little more than any other narowboat, with a few of the english features removed.

I think you have summed it up very well Daniel. Only thing I would add is that it would probably be illegal for a UK company to sell a 'Dutch Barge' (as it would not be Dutch)… hence the Replica Dutch or Dutch replica. Also new Dutch built Barges tend to be more suitable for continental waters (wider, deeper draft, higher air draft) than UK Replica Dutch Barges (which tend to be designed for UK broad beam canals (shallower, low bridges, narrower locks) but also suitable for continental waters.

 

Crikey - yes!! Ian's website is a mine of information - he's done a marvelous job there.

 

Thanks Bazza, I do my best, but still learning, and when I do it is added to the web site.

 

……I don't actually have to make any decisions yet because I'm still very much in the research/feasability study stage.

 

It took us a couple of years to do our research prior to placing an order for a new barge, then a year on the waiting list for fabrication (build slot) then 6 months fabrication to sailaway+ level, then 2 years fitting it out ourselves over weekends….. so yes, it takes time, 1st to sort out what you want (based on where you want to cruise with it, and whether you want it as a liveaboard or not), then to find the right builder (if you choose new build), then the fit-out (if you choose DIY).

 

If you are seriously thinking about buying / fitting out a barge (or wide beam steel boat - new or old) you may wish to consider join the DBA (Dutch Barge Association). The Associations Blue Flag magazine is excellent (normally published every other month, in colour, 30 odd A4 pages. There are often New build barge articles within the magazine.

 

Ian

Replica Dutch Barge Elessina.

[Alastair]

More vertical at the stem usually means that they are copying the 'luxmotor' style, instead of sailing barge style.

 

I don't believe it is easy to copy the shape of a tjalk, but Gary P would be able to give you a better idea.

 

Don't write off an old barge - the hull plates might be thin, but the framing is often very strong. 'Sara' has 100mmx150mm U frames, only 400mm apart. When she was surveyed for the sale, much of the original steel (never overplated) was over 6mm thick, and well over 7mm around the bow. That's on an 84yr-old boat.

[DHutch]

Yeah, copy riveted iron boats is pritty hard.

- I beleave the only real way is to do it with "planks" of steel welded up into the shape, which is very much harder and more costly. And still easyer with thine steel!

 

 

Daniel

[blackrose]

More vertical at the stem usually means that they are copying the 'luxmotor' style, instead of sailing barge style.

 

I don't believe it is easy to copy the shape of a tjalk, but Gary P would be able to give you a better idea.

 

Don't write off an old barge - the hull plates might be thin, but the framing is often very strong. 'Sara' has 100mmx150mm U frames, only 400mm apart. When she was surveyed for the sale, much of the original steel (never overplated) was over 6mm thick, and well over 7mm around the bow. That's on an 84yr-old boat.

 

I'm not sure if anyone would be thinking about the strong framing when a sharp underwater object has gone through their thin hull!

 

When I looked at Sara a few years ago just after she had been brought across from Holland the original Dutch survey showed plenty of areas over 5mm which is good, but how could it be over 6mm if she was built in 6? Or was she built in 8mm? Unusual.

 

There were a couple of sections of 4mm overplating at the bow that were down to 3.8mm. The dubious overplating work was partly the reason I walked away and even the vendor's surveyor/engineer agreed it hadn't been done properly.

 

Perhaps it's just different results from different surveyors, but are you sure the last surveyor hadn't combined any overplating with original steel thicknesses? This shouldn't really be done. Only the top plate counts as the original was already too thin.

Edited January 12, 2007 by blackrose

[Alastair]

I assumed that readings (on previous survey) over 6mm were overplating.

 

However, I was able to walk around her in the drydock and confirm that the thicker readings were on original plate.

[blackrose]

I assumed that readings (on previous survey) over 6mm were overplating.

 

However, I was able to walk around her in the drydock and confirm that the thicker readings were on original plate.

 

Yes, I saw her out the water too at St Margarets, near Twickenham on the Thames. Anyway, it's not your problem anymore!

[DHutch]

When I looked at Sara a few years ago just after she had been brought across from Holland the original Dutch survey showed plenty of areas over 5mm which is good, but how could it be over 6mm if she was built in 6? Or was she built in 8mm? Unusual.

Well dont forget that 84years ago, its wasnt metric at all!

- Plus the fact that, like today, its likly that some parts of the hull where built thicker that others.

 

And ofcause, the recent "race for thinkness" is a relativly new thing. Even 20/30 years ago Springer Engeering was chuning out boats made with steel as thin as 3 or 4mm, may of which are still also around today.

 

 

Daniel

[tomsk]

Well dont forget that 84years ago, its wasnt metric at all!

- Plus the fact that, like today, its likly that some parts of the hull where built thicker that others.

 

And ofcause, the recent "race for thinkness" is a relativly new thing. Even 20/30 years ago Springer Engeering was chuning out boats made with steel as thin as 3 or 4mm, may of which are still also around today.

Daniel

 

 

It may have been on here but I am sure I heard that the thickness of a narrowboat hull is thicker than that of a navy destroyer, mind you a destroyer won't scrape the bottom as much

[bottle]

To go even further some of the navy ships are plastic.

[blackrose]

I heard they're starting to make them from papier mache!

 

Well dont forget that 84years ago, its wasnt metric at all!

 

That's true, but a metric ultrasonic thickness tester can't tell how old a sheet of metal is.

Edited January 12, 2007 by blackrose

[DHutch]

To go even further some of the navy ships are plastic.

With missiles guided by pc's running windows...

[NB Alnwick]

With missiles guided by pc's running windows...

 

Surely you mean windows running pc's . . .

[fuzzyduck]

Windows for warships

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/06/am...s_for_warships/

Edited January 13, 2007 by fuzzyduck

[NB Alnwick]

Windows for warships

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/06/am...s_for_warships/

 

Very scarry - when do we become a fully paid up member of the United States of Microsoft?

[bottle]

a 50 page dossier detailing the unsuitability of Windows

 

Well, it is obvious why they chose 'windows' then. ( I would put a smilie but this is to serious for that)

 

Cannot have the 'experts' telling the bosses what to do.

[tomsk]

Well, it is obvious why they chose 'windows' then. ( I would put a smilie but this is to serious for that)

 

Cannot have the 'experts' telling the bosses what to do.

 

 

I thought we had banned the term 'ex**rt'?

[bottle]

I thought we had banned the term 'ex**rt'?

 

I will rephrase that then 'boffins' is that allowed.