Locking the professional's way

[Hairy-Neil]

........ but can't remember if I saw them doing it locking uphill.

 

 

There's no need to going up hill, the boats would push the gates open.......

[Denis R]

Good point! That's why I don't remember them doing that going uphill...... I remember once at Widewater a youngish guy, steerer of the motor of a pair on the 'lime juice run' asking me if I knew anyone who had a spare crankshaft for the motor's Petter as it had rumbling mains and could do with replacing..... Saw that crew a few times and they did thumbline through heading back. Would it have been the Murrells I'd have also seen thumblining? (Memory fading!)

[howardang]

The Narrowboat Trust have these pictures in their gallery.

 

http://www.narrowboattrust.org/pics/2005%2...thumblining.htm

http://www.narrowboattrust.org/pics/2005%2...humblining2.htm

 

Howard Anguish

[David Schweizer]

Good point! That's why I don't remember them doing that going uphill...... I remember once at Widewater a youngish guy, steerer of the motor of a pair on the 'lime juice run' asking me if I knew anyone who had a spare crankshaft for the motor's Petter as it had rumbling mains and could do with replacing..... Saw that crew a few times and they did thumbline through heading back. Would it have been the Murrells I'd have also seen thumblining? (Memory fading!)

It could have been Grace and Ernie Humphries, they worked on the Lime Juice run until the very end in 1972. Their boats, which I think were Arcus and Actis, were looking a bit sad by the end because of lack of maintenance by BW, but the brasswork always gleamed and the cabins were immaculate. Coming from old Boating families ,they would certainly have proudly continued the old traditions like Thumblining. One little aside, dont ever remember seeing Grace without a cigarette hanging out of her mouth.

Edited December 1, 2006 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

It could have been Grace and Ernie Humphries, they worked on the Lime Juice run until the very end in 1972. Their boats, which I think were Arcus and Actis, were looking a bit sad by the end because of lack of maintenance by BW, but the brasswork always gleamed and the cabins were immaculate. Coming from old Boating families ,they would certainly have proudly continued the old traditions like Thumblining. One little aside, dont ever remember seeing Grace without a cigarette hanging out of her mouth.

I think the final 3 pairs of boats BW used on the Roses Lime Juice contract were

 

Arcas & Actis

Stamford & Bude

Tadworth (?) & Bakewell

 

I have seen published pictures claiming to be of Grace Humphries on both Bude and on Actis, (with cigarette in each, as you say!), so it seems likely that crews changed between boats at some stage.

 

I don't believe by then there was regular work for 3 pairs, but that this many were retained, as the traffic came in batches.

 

It is correct that one of the operators after this was the Murrells, but with just a single pair by then.

 

However, although I used to watch the Murrells pass the lock outside where I worked in Apsley, I'm struggling to remember which boats they were using on this traffic.

 

I've a feeling they took on both Stamford & Bude from BW, but could be wrong. What I do recall is some highly non-traditional collapsible wooden shelters that they often used over the hatches in the coldest weathers ! (Clearly they were not as hardy as some working boaters!).

 

The Roses wharf in Boxmoor, Hemel Hempstead was where B&Q now stands. If anybody has seen the film "The Bargee", (crap politically incorrect storyline, but wonderful colour footage of working boats), you might be interested to know that some of the action was filmed there.

 

I have always understood that boats used on this run suffered much more internal corrosion than many, as leakage from the barrels was particularly unkind to the steel, (although Arcas and Actis probably still retained elm bottoms on their otherwise steel hulls, being a type originally built as composite construction).

[DHutch]

Just thought i would bump this thread up a bit as it has been mentioned elsewhere and is a good read.

 

 

 

Daniel

[Keith Lodge]

Thumblining can only be carried out on Southern Grand Union locks, due to the shape of the handrail, It relies on the first bite of the rope against the upright of the handrail, and the curve at the corner of the rail and upright to stop the rope from sliding off the top. When the boat's move forward the rope does not bite against the upright, and only has to unravel from the handrail itself, which offers no resistance and falls back onto the boat. The technique was developed so that a single handed crew member could return to the descending boat/s in a deep lock once the paddles were opened and thus be able to open the gates whilst onboard, however this also resulted in the gates and paddles being left open as all the crew were now onboard, this was an accepted practice with working boats to save time, relying on the next boat negotiating the lock to shut the gates and paddles, as everyone did it the workload was shared out evenly, but is however not accepted by British Waterways as they require all gates and paddles to be closed when leaving a lock.

 

Thumblining is and always was a risky and dangerous technique, you had to know the precise amount of line to allow for the depth of fall of each lock on the journey. The technique has been negated by the installation of ladders in locks for crew to get to the boat once the lock is emptied and gates opened. I was taught and carried out the practice 39 years ago by an ex-working boatman born on a working boat, and I would not recommend its use, as although you may practice it and perfect it, if someone else less competant copied you the results could be disasterous.

Edited May 3, 2007 by Keith Lodge

[DHutch]

Yeah, well that is always going to be the problem.

- Your average day-boater is going to have a clue how to do it safely, and even a relativly experenced canal type is unliky to have the hours and hours of practice that a working boatman would have had.

 

Straping is in another such technique, which to a lesser extent isnt always sensable or practical to practice these days.

 

 

Daniel

[David Schweizer]

I was taught and carried out the practice 39 years ago by an ex-working boatman ...

That wouldn't have been Dennis Papworth on Pisces by any chance would it Keith?

[Guest Lockwheeler]

Under T&D Murell we had Stamford, Towcester, Bude, Biscester, Leonids at various times in various combinations. My favourite was Towcester & Leonids. Not that I ever spent much time ON the boats.

 

Your dead right about the corrosion. Poor old bude had multiple bottoms and a very weak fore-end.

 

I think the final 3 pairs of boats BW used on the Roses Lime Juice contract were

 

Arcas & Actis

Stamford & Bude

Tadworth (?) & Bakewell

 

I have seen published pictures claiming to be of Grace Humphries on both Bude and on Actis, (with cigarette in each, as you say!), so it seems likely that crews changed between boats at some stage.

 

I don't believe by then there was regular work for 3 pairs, but that this many were retained, as the traffic came in batches.

 

It is correct that one of the operators after this was the Murrells, but with just a single pair by then.

 

However, although I used to watch the Murrells pass the lock outside where I worked in Apsley, I'm struggling to remember which boats they were using on this traffic.

 

I've a feeling they took on both Stamford & Bude from BW, but could be wrong. What I do recall is some highly non-traditional collapsible wooden shelters that they often used over the hatches in the coldest weathers ! (Clearly they were not as hardy as some working boaters!).

 

The Roses wharf in Boxmoor, Hemel Hempstead was where B&Q now stands. If anybody has seen the film "The Bargee", (crap politically incorrect storyline, but wonderful colour footage of working boats), you might be interested to know that some of the action was filmed there.

 

I have always understood that boats used on this run suffered much more internal corrosion than many, as leakage from the barrels was particularly unkind to the steel, (although Arcas and Actis probably still retained elm bottoms on their otherwise steel hulls, being a type originally built as composite construction).

[Tiny]

Of course sometimes, ropes being ropes the thumbline didn't undo and the rail came off as the boat exited the lock.

 

How easily this could be done given the massive momentum of a loaded narrow boat we found a week back when a loaded coal boat copped a load round the prop going into reverse at a T&M lock and having no mooring posts to get a line round they hit the top gate at very slow speed. Even at slow speed the coalboat smashed off the top walkway which BW had to fish out of the lockmouth with a grapple - the coalman having called them up before using the boathook on the prop to clear it (an art in itself) and then continuing on his round.

[Peter & Maureen H]

Can't remember where but I've been thru some narrow locks with little bollards on the top gate you can drop the tail rope round when locking down and pull the gate shut behind you. Very safe and easy but didn't see many people doing it. Lets the crew get down to the other end ready to pull paddles as soon as you are in and stops the boat nicely. Can be done on standard gates if they have a slight upstand on the endpost of the gate but you risk trapping the rope tween gate and wall. I guess you could do it on double gates too with a bit of work with a boat hook but I've not tried it yet- maybe next week on the GU from Warwick to Braunston and back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rope-Undervalued, Illtreated, Misunderstood and Neglected- One of the basic building blocks of Civilisation, where would we be without it?

Edited October 14, 2008 by Peter & Maureen H

[bristol & argo]

Straping is in another such technique, which to a lesser extent isnt always sensable or practical to practice these days.

 

Daniel

 

Mainly because BW have not replaced the big wooden bollards when they have rotted and broken. I noticed quite a few bollards in the right place for strapping into a lock coming down hill, but i think only one for uphill travel, on my recent move from Kings Langly down to Cassio.

 

Strapping in using the top gate end post i'm having a low success rate with - somehow you need to start the gate moving and get a turn on the maybe three inches of post...

 

On the subject of thumblining,

I didn't bother this time since everything was wet and slippery, instead i took a shaft with me to punt open the other side gate and then drop onto the roof and motor out.

Someone mentioned the ladders - i consider there is probably more chance of slipping off the ladder.

 

Every trip is another chance to try something else out when single handing a pair - and then working out how to solve the next problem (like when having roped the boats half out of Kings Langly deep the lock rush returned up the river and parked them neatly back by the cill before i noticed and was able to get on below the gates!)

 

Still no hurry, bad road all the way even thought i met a couple of boats - they had only gone and closed the gates behind them....

 

 

Simon.

 

Edit to add; Even when thumblining there is no need to leave the paddles up, and i normally manage to close one gate subject to wind and flow etc...

 

Edit again to add; The thumbline needs to pass between the handrail and gate between two verticles, otherwise when you motor out the rope drops but slides down into the V between handrail and gate and wedges tight. Also the rope rarely drops onto the boat, it normally goes into the water so a synthetic rope will last longer being wet most of the time.

.

Edited October 14, 2008 by bristol & argo

[Tam & Di]

Mainly because BW have not replaced the big wooden bollards when they have rotted and broken. I noticed quite a few bollards in the right place for strapping into a lock coming down hill, but i think only one for uphill travel, on my recent move from Kings Langly down to Cassio.

 

Strapping in using the top gate end post i'm having a low success rate with - somehow you need to start the gate moving and get a turn on the maybe three inches of post...

 

On the subject of thumblining,

I didn't bother this time since everything was wet and slippery, instead i took a shaft with me to punt open the other side gate and then drop onto the roof and motor out.

Someone mentioned the ladders - i consider there is probably more chance of slipping off the ladder.

 

Every trip is another chance to try something else out when single handing a pair - and then working out how to solve the next problem (like when having roped the boats half out of Kings Langly deep the lock rush returned up the river and parked them neatly back by the cill before i noticed and was able to get on below the gates!)

 

Still no hurry, bad road all the way even thought i met a couple of boats - they had only gone and closed the gates behind them....

 

 

Simon.

 

Edit to add; Even when thumblining there is no need to leave the paddles up, and i normally manage to close one gate subject to wind and flow etc...

 

Edit again to add; The thumbline needs to pass between the handrail and gate between two verticles, otherwise when you motor out the rope drops but slides down into the V between handrail and gate and wedges tight. Also the rope rarely drops onto the boat, it normally goes into the water so a synthetic rope will last longer being wet most of the time.

.

 

 

Mainly because BW have not replaced the big wooden bollards when they have rotted and broken. I noticed quite a few bollards in the right place for strapping into a lock coming down hill, but i think only one for uphill travel, on my recent move from Kings Langly down to Cassio.

 

Strapping in using the top gate end post i'm having a low success rate with - somehow you need to start the gate moving and get a turn on the maybe three inches of post...

 

On the subject of thumblining,

I didn't bother this time since everything was wet and slippery, instead i took a shaft with me to punt open the other side gate and then drop onto the roof and motor out.

Someone mentioned the ladders - i consider there is probably more chance of slipping off the ladder.

 

Every trip is another chance to try something else out when single handing a pair - and then working out how to solve the next problem (like when having roped the boats half out of Kings Langly deep the lock rush returned up the river and parked them neatly back by the cill before i noticed and was able to get on below the gates!)

 

Still no hurry, bad road all the way even thought i met a couple of boats - they had only gone and closed the gates behind them....

 

 

Simon.

 

Edit to add; Even when thumblining there is no need to leave the paddles up, and i normally manage to close one gate subject to wind and flow etc...

 

Edit again to add; The thumbline needs to pass between the handrail and gate between two verticles, otherwise when you motor out the rope drops but slides down into the V between handrail and gate and wedges tight. Also the rope rarely drops onto the boat, it normally goes into the water so a synthetic rope will last longer being wet most of the time.

.

[Tam & Di]

Strapping in using the top gate end post i'm having a low success rate with - somehow you need to start the gate moving and get a turn on the maybe three inches of post...

 

On the subject of thumblining,

I didn't bother this time since everything was wet and slippery, instead i took a shaft with me to punt open the other side gate and then drop onto the roof and motor out.

 

I stumbled into this discussion by accident when I Googled “canal” and found my name jumping out of the computer at me. I started a response but the computer froze - hence the preceding non-message.

 

There were so many things deserving comment in the discussion, but her are a few:

 

The boat people on Stamford and Bude at the end were Tom (Oxford Tommy) and Ellen Humphries. They were no relation to Ernie and his aunt on Arcas and Actis, but this could explain any confusion about the women on the two butties.

 

Towing bottom gates open was general more or less throughout the system, but the handrails on the ‘wide’ locks of the GU were specifically designed to facilitate it. I’ve never come across the term ‘thumblining by the way, and we used the term thumb line for a different purpose, as below. With a pair of boats mastlines are taken from the boat and butty and fed through the gap between the two handrails. A half hitch is then made on the top of each rail immediately beyond the first upright support on each side, and pulled to make sure it is holding tight. The tail is then twisted a couple of times round the upright stanchion to make sure the hitch held in place. We generally used cable-spun cotton line, which was still readily available at the time. For a pair about to single out. when the lock is empty the motor steerer reverses, with a short strap still attached to the butty stern, and tows both gates open. This stern strap is then dropped off and the motor leaves the lock. The butty steerer has a thumb string with an eye on the small pin which is (was?) on the lockside more or less under the balance beam next to the pivot point of the top gates and takes a turn around the tee stud, otherwise the butty will usually try to come out alongside the motor from the thrust of the propellor washing back onto the top cill.The mastlines are of a length that prevents boat or butty coming back against the cill. As the motor stern comes alongside the butty fore end the steer picks up the cross straps if empty, or the snatcher or snubber if loaded, and the boats go on their merry way.

 

Mastlines very seldom jam, but they are anyway only attached to the top looby on the mast with a small eye splice. This looby (simply a small hinged pin) is upright when there is tension pulling it forward, but folds back allowing the mastline to come off if the pull is backwards. If anything I would reckon that wet and miserable weather would be even more reason to use the lines rather than the risky operation of jumping down on the boat’s cabin described. I cannot understand the comment about opening both gates to keep the boat in the middle - a single boat leaving via one open gate from a GU lock will force the other gate to open with the back pressure.

 

Gates would normally be left open and paddles up, unless the other gates or paddles were leaking. Small leaks were not serious on river pounds, but we would otherwise try to shut gates behind us and report the leakage to the lengthsman (remember them?). With gates left open as a norm there was at least a 50% chance of having a lock in your favour, and if paddles were left up at least it was then clearly the responsibility of the current user to make sure they were closed properly for his passage of the lock, not to rely on the previous user who may wind them down so gently they continue to leak while seeming closed.

 

I don’t know of top gates on the GU being towed closed as they are not set up to do that. On the Worcester-Birmingham narrow locks for instance the mitre post on the top gate protrudes about a foot above the top beam and is bound in iron so a line can be taken around it as the boat comes in, shutting the gate and bringing the boat to a halt in one fell swoop.

 

Yes, we used rain sheds. They were seldom if ever photographed, but I guess photographers prefer sunny days. They were three squarish panels which clipped together round the steering hatches, with a fourth one as a roof. You looked through a small ‘letterbox’ slot to see where you were going, and hoped the dog did not chose to pear back through at you on the roof when you came to a crucial turn. We inherited ours from Fred Dell - captain of the third pair Tadworth and Bakewell operating for BW out of Brentford. Even born and bred boatpeople did not necessarily think it ethnic or virtuous to stand 12-15 hours a day in rain, hail and snow getting cold and wet at the tiller!

 

Peter Thompson (now King Lister-Petter) came with us on a complete round trip Brentford-Boxmoor and filmed it. The film stock was then lost but has now turned up again, and one project we have for this winter is to turn it into a DVD. This should show clearly how lines were used and various other small tricks of the trade. In the mean time Di & I have left UK canals and swan about on our 80’ motorbarge, mostly in France where commercial boating and professionalism still exists, running a part time barge handling school to keep ourselves on our toes.

 

Tam Murrell - www.bargehandling.com

[alan_fincher]

Thanks for the trouble to publish that very detailed explanation, Tam.

 

I have vivid memories when working at Apsley Mills of your boats passing, and would often sneak out of the office and part way up an external fire escape to get a better view of the action.

 

Quite a hard run that, I always felt, with the locks coming thick and fast for most of the journey. I don't blame any efforts to try and stay warmer and drier!

 

It always surprises me when the so-called Jam 'Ole is quoted as the last regular distance narrow-boat traffic - I always felt there were enough locks up to Boxmoor to qualify the Lime Juice for that.

[Tam & Di]

Quite a hard run that, I always felt, with the locks coming thick and fast for most of the journey. I don't blame any efforts to try and stay warmer and drier!

 

It always surprises me when the so-called Jam 'Ole is quoted as the last regular distance narrow-boat traffic - I always felt there were enough locks up to Boxmoor to qualify the Lime Juice for that.

 

In fact when BW still operated a substantial fleet couples where the wife was pregnant were often assigned the barrel job. I guess though it was because it only took about 12 hours up loaded and 10 hours back MT, so it made it easier to cope if the wife suddenly went into labour.

 

Which points up the reason for techniques such as using a mastline to open gates. That run is about 30 miles and 36 locks - we would load first thing in the morning at Brentford and be expected for unloading first thing the following morning at Boxmoor. So you got away about 10.00-10.30 and just kept a-going until you got there. With a loaded pair it took us 4 minutes for each lock, and if we were to lose even just one minute at each one that would add 36 minutes to our working day, and the chippy would be shut by the time we arrived. The only times we could not always do the run in one day was when the ice got so thick that the motor would have to go up the pound single and then reverse back to pick up the butty, and you had to put the boats through the locks one at a time so they did not jam. When you are a mode of transport rather than doing boating as a hooby you don't get the option of staying in bed for a few hours because you are tired or because it is blowing a blizzard.

 

Tam Murrell www.bargehandling.com

[mykaskin]

Peter Thompson (now King Lister-Petter) came with us on a complete round trip Brentford-Boxmoor and filmed it. The film stock was then lost but has now turned up again, and one project we have for this winter is to turn it into a DVD.

 

I look forwards to seeing this. Thanks for all the great stories and information, there just isn't enough practical information on this day to day boating. It's just a shame that more people aren't interested in improving their techniques, the amount of effort wasted by holiday makers beggars belief!

 

Thanks,

 

Mike