What percentage of the asking price would you offer?

[LEO]

Don't bother with the hull survey. Any sensible buyer will commission his own; then he will have recourse against the surveyor if the survey is wrong.

 

Hi,

 

As I wrote. I don't do haggling, if I sell anything It's best to know the quality of what you are selling (how can you value it if you don't know all the facts).

 

I don't fly 'kites', I like to sell things (houses, cars and when the time comes, a boat) for a reasonable price and get the money in the bank.

 

I would encourage any sensible buyer to commission his own survey prior to purchase, but my way is better, 2 inspections can't be wrong and it means that the asking price takes into account any defects,.

 

Recourse for missed defects by a surveyor is a minefield often made worse by caveats built into the report, my way includes an inspection and report commissioned by a qualified surveyor and undertaken by a suitably qualified surveyor, both of who knows what 'caveats' means and can discuss problems which causes mis-understandings.

 

L.

[ackdaw]

Could you consider a sail away option ? It may be worth checking the price of those ?

Were you can have the boat built new to a certain specification ? The price of a bare bones new hull can be reasonable

And perhaps if your a little bit diy , ( I would think most boat people are ? ) you could perhaps have built in what you need to live aboard your pump out ,water tanks engine of your choice and as such budget accordingly ? And perhaps when your aboard add extra items after all when you buy a house its never perfect and always needs redecorating even if the paints new its the wrong shade ???

you have two years so perhaps in 18 months time you could instruct a boat yard to start a build

and you would perhaps have a choice of the latest led lighting etc. . or fitting that in yourself

And at least you would as such know the exact state of the boat you were buying and what would be required in the near future , to be done , spent .

No nasty surprise of your hulls leaking or the engine has blown ??

it wont allow much choice to barter the price but you do in a sense know exactly what your getting for the price you pay

 

 

 

 

The Sailaway is sold as a waterproof shell fitted with ballast and engine. This enables the owner to use the boat as a 'camper' whilst fitting out the interior

 

. And the price at the moment ive just checked out one says up to 45 ft 11,930 including vat and I think they require a small deposit 500£

and about 25% of the cost a couple weeks before they start building it

[MtB]

 

Recourse for missed defects by a surveyor is a minefield often made worse by caveats built into the report, my way includes an inspection and report commissioned by a qualified surveyor and undertaken by a suitably qualified surveyor, both of who knows what 'caveats' means and can discuss problems which causes mis-understandings.

 

This was my point when I asked Thorn Lass what recourse she considered was available from a surveyor.

 

I'd be interested to hear if any member here has ever succeeded in obtaining money in compensation for an inaccurate survey.

 

MtB

 

The Sailaway is sold as a waterproof shell fitted with ballast and engine. This enables the owner to use the boat as a 'camper' whilst fitting out the interior

 

. And the price at the moment ive just checked out one says up to 45 ft 11,930 including vat and I think they require a small deposit 500£

and about 25% of the cost a couple weeks before they start building it

 

That sounds highly implausible given a new engine costs circa £5k and so would the steel for a 45ft hull. Do you have a link please?

 

Thanks!

 

MtB

[LEO]

 

This was my point when I asked Thorn Lass what recourse she considered was available from a surveyor.

 

I'd be interested to hear if any member here has ever succeeded in obtaining money in compensation for an inaccurate survey.

 

MtB

 

That sounds highly implausible given a new engine costs circa £5k and so would the steel for a 45ft hull. Do you have a link please?

 

Thanks!

 

MtB

 

Hi,

 

I know of 2 cases over the last few years of compensation payments were made by a Boat Surveyor for missed defects, these were both settled 'out of court' and one involved an area where re-plating was needed but not spotted, other areas were mentioned as needing over plating.

 

Claims for missed defects can result in compensation payments - but read the caveats carefully and follow guidelines as to how to present a case to the Surveyor.

 

But bear in mind Surveyors are only human, mistakes can be made ( I made a few over the years) and don't believe the Surveyor who says 'He's never made a mistake' , most problems are best settled by negotiation.

 

My method of selling things helps overcome any problems - as a girlfriend said to me years ago - it's the arguing that takes the time'

 

L

[ackdaw]

MtB

 

That sounds highly implausible given a new engine costs circa £5k and so would the steel for a 45ft hull. Do you have a link please?

 

 

 

http://www.liverpoolboatco.co.uk/id32.html

 

 

thats todays look see , i know the liverpool boat company as such knock them out etc , but i guess its still a resonable price for what you get ??

just been to check it has a engine in it lol

also has , but im not advertising for them just going of the first post , and thought it might help him ( as such ? ) and no one had suggested it , sailaways , plus the money up front , option looked ok as such ?

and he can add extras ? like a pint of beer for me ??

 

The Sailaway is sold as a waterproof shell fitted with ballast and engine. This enables the owner to use the boat as a ‘camper’ whilst fitting out the interior.

 

The ‘Sailaway’ consists of:

 

Ballast: Adequate ballast is installed into a bitumen prepared base.

 

Floor: Treated plywood floor is fitted within the cabin area.

 

Windows: Gold anodized windows or portholes fitted to your specification.

 

Door: Traditional craft: Twin steel doors to the rear and sliding hatch. Front doors are hardwood and glazed or steel to your instructions.

Cruiser craft: Hardwood doors are installed to both front & rear.

 

Engine: Isuzu engine and matched gearbox Installed with standard instrumentation and controls. Others available as optional extra.

 

 

Electrics: Single 12 volt battery supplied for starting the engine.

 

 

Paint: Hull finished in one coat International 192 primer. Hull is blacked, not base.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2013 by ackdaw

[Sierra2]

 

MtB

 

That sounds highly implausible given a new engine costs circa £5k and so would the steel for a 45ft hull. Do you have a link please?

 

 

 

http://www.liverpoolboatco.co.uk/id32.html

 

Erm, the price says £19,284 for a 45ft, not 11k?

 

http://www.liverpoolboatco.co.uk/id13.html

[MtB]

 

http://www.liverpoolboatco.co.uk/id32.html

 

This would also appear to be the Liverpool boats who went bust in about 2008.

 

Not sure why the website is still live!

 

 

MtB

 

Hi,

 

I know of 2 cases over the last few years of compensation payments were made by a Boat Surveyor for missed defects, these were both settled 'out of court' and one involved an area where re-plating was needed but not spotted, other areas were mentioned as needing over plating.

 

Claims for missed defects can result in compensation payments - but read the caveats carefully and follow guidelines as to how to present a case to the Surveyor.

 

But bear in mind Surveyors are only human, mistakes can be made ( I made a few over the years) and don't believe the Surveyor who says 'He's never made a mistake' , most problems are best settled by negotiation.

 

My method of selling things helps overcome any problems - as a girlfriend said to me years ago - it's the arguing that takes the time'

 

L

 

Well that's encouraging provided one can convince the surveyor he made an error, which is where the negotiating skill comes in.

 

If push comes to shove and it goes to court, I bet success is pretty rare due to all those caveats.

 

MtB

[ackdaw]

i stand corrected that price was for a hull itself bare hull , i was on the forum and just clicked on sailaways , i know i shouldent multi task , but i did

thank you for correcting that ( no wonder it was a good price ??? )

i will try and be a bit more carefull , wrong infomation is worse than no help at all etc now weres my reading glassers

and you say they went bust as well in 2008 ? . no more net shopping for me

Edited November 26, 2013 by ackdaw

[Jim Batty]

If you are not slightly embarrassed to make your opening offer then it probably isn't low enough.

 

I think this is probably right.

 

There are many factors involved, including how long it has been up for sale and how badly a seller wants/needs to sell it.

 

Our experience is that many private sellers massively overvalue their boats when compared with what's out there. Good brokers do not want to have second hand boats hanging around forever so will usually be more realistic in setting asking prices. They will usually also be there to give you the keys to have a look at set hours, answer questions, be reasonably objective and know boats well. Ultimately, we gave up on private sellers and focused on good marina brokers. And looked at lots of boats.

 

I'd offer 80% of an asking price or thereabouts and take it from there. You need to be a serious buyer, but also prepared to walk away. It's not unheard of for a seller/broker to come back weeks later to re-negotiate with you. And obviously you are then in a strong position.

 

Buy subject to out-of-water hull and interior survey ... and make it clear that if any major-ish (unseen) problems are brought up by the surveyor you will need the cost of these deducted from the price.

[MtB]

 

I'd offer 80% of an asking price or thereabouts and take it from there. You need to be a serious buyer, but also prepared to walk away. It's not unheard of for a seller/broker to come back weeks later to re-negotiate with you. And obviously you are then in a strong position.

 

I'd agree with most of that, but beware, a broker can easilytell the difference between a fender kicker getting an education and a viewer actually ready and able to follow through on their offer and willing to buy. It's no good offering 80% and getting acceptance then saying 'I'll think about it' (meaning panic about where to get the money from as you don't actually have it). But it won't get that far, the the broker will have you sussed and just smile at you and say he'll pass your offer on to the vendor...

 

MtB

[LEO]

 

This would also appear to be the Liverpool boats who went bust in about 2008.

 

Not sure why the website is still live!

 

 

MtB

 

Well that's encouraging provided one can convince the surveyor he made an error, which is where the negotiating skill comes in.

 

If push comes to shove and it goes to court, I bet success is pretty rare due to all those caveats.

 

MtB

 

Hi,

 

This is where it's important to read the terms and conditions outlined in the contract between you and the Surveyor over the inspection and ask for clarification on any points you are unsure of.

 

Most Surveyors are reasonable and are aware that their reputation and livelihood is at stake - important as most are 'one man bands'. Some offer to refund the cost of the survey - be careful accepting this offer in case further problems come to light.

 

When I was an articled clerk, in the mid 60's, in a old established firm of Surveyors, one surveyor made a mistake and the Senior partner called later that day with cash to fairly settle the claim in favour of the claimant - now that's customer service for you.

 

L.

[Athy]

The Liverpool Boats site is obviously an old one: it mentions VAT at 17.5% (it's been 20% for a couple of years now) and its features include boat shows from 2007.

I don't think they "went bust"; they were taken over and changed their name to Collingwood Boats. So look for the Collingwood site and see what you can find.

 

 

Leo. I have seen your boat and it's a one-off (well, a two-off from what you say), so your strategy makes sense. If you had been looking for , say, a 57 foot Liverpool, of which there are dozens on the mrket at any time, you might have operated differently.

[MtB]

The Liverpool Boats site is obviously an old one: it mentions VAT at 17.5% (it's been 20% for a couple of years now) and its features include boat shows from 2007.

I don't think they "went bust"; they were taken over and changed their name to Collingwood Boats. So look for the Collingwood site and see what you can find.

 

 

Leo. I have seen your boat and it's a one-off (well, a two-off from what you say), so your strategy makes sense. If you had been looking for , say, a 57 foot Liverpool, of which there are dozens on the mrket at any time, you might have operated differently.

 

Ok, but 'went bust' is colloquial shorthand for 'entered administration'. Not quite the same thing but the effect on customers and staff is often indistinguishable!

 

In administration AIUI the appointed administrators sell assets and try to save the company in a new format if necessary. With liquidation (going bust) the assets are sold and the staff got rid of regardless. Administration is the normal option for a firm in financial difficulty these days.

 

I am not an expert in all this so details may be wrong but my broad thrust is probably right.

 

MtB

P.S. meant to say also that I believe the stricken assets of Liverpool were sold by the administrator to a new venture called Collingwood, not that Collingwood took them over. I don't have any evidence to back this up, just what I gleaned from this board at the time.