Is it better to remove batteries or add to them.

[Doodlebug]

As per the title.

 

We have 4 batteries. I get the feeling that they are getting a bit tired, and its probably a bit early to be throwing them away. I was just wondering whether it is better to add to them when they get even more tired, or to start again.

 

I know that an old battery will kill a new one, but maybe adding to the bank with old batteries is more economical?

 

I.e. replace my 4 batteries costing me 280 pounds

 

Or add another 4 second hand ones costing a fraction of the cost, meaning I have 8 batteries that work at half capacity.

 

Just a thought.

 

Cheers.

[Beaker]

Do you have room for 8 batteries?

 

I'm no expert, but I imagine the general consensus will be to replace with new, if they are genuinely knackered.

[Doodlebug]

Thing is they aren't that bad, just not working at full capacity.

 

You can always make space!

[Hoose]

Can you get a good prolonged charge into your existing batts? I say this because 2 of my 4 batts were no where near holding full capacity last winter but after a summer on the solar they are like new now.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Hoose

[bottle]

If they are 'open wet lead acid' then an equalisation charge may well give them some life back.

[Mike Tee]

I had a problem with 12 month old batteries - left them on board through the winter and thought I'd 'killed' them. So I bought what I thought was an expensive battery charger - CTEK, can't remember the model but about £50 - brought the batteries home and over the course of a couple of months got them back to (just) life. Then after a long summers cruising they are now back to as new.

Maybe yours are past it, but it might be worth a £50 gamble - or even better, borrow a smart charger from someone!

[smileypete]

Are they sealed or unsealed ones?

 

If unsealed ones, how are the SGs coming up after the long weekly charge plus say an hour of rest time?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited November 21, 2013 by smileypete

[Arthur Brown]

Older batteries tend to have a higher self discharge rate than new batteries. be sure that your charge regime will sustain the increased self discharge rate of eight batteries. Remembering that BSS requires the batteries to be secured suitably for their mass, while spare batteries may help you will need extra generation iat a time when solar is less than summer effective.

[Phil Ambrose]

Are they sealed or unsealed ones?

 

If unsealed ones, how are the SGs coming up after the long weekly charge plus say an hour of rest time?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Pete is right, I check my SG when I do a routine battery top up, that way I can see any potential problems such as dead cells etc.

 

Phil

[Ricco1]

Older batteries tend to have a higher self discharge rate than new batteries. be sure that your charge regime will sustain the increased self discharge rate of eight batteries. Remembering that BSS requires the batteries to be secured suitably for their mass, while spare batteries may help you will need extra generation iat a time when solar is less than summer effective.

Bss does have this requirement, a quite ridiculous one. If a narrowboat was rammed at beyond the speed limit by another boat then a battery 'might' tip over 'perhaps' causing a bit of acid to be lost or something. But people don't tend to live under the deck boards so if, worse case scenario, a fire did start there, it most likely wouldn't consume the inhabitants , who would be somewhere more comfortable.

 

So best thing to do is not worry about securing the batteries, simply remove them before your next BSS, then replace them when the fella has gone.

[FadeToScarlet]

Bss does have this requirement, a quite ridiculous one. If a narrowboat was rammed at beyond the speed limit by another boat then a battery 'might' tip over 'perhaps' causing a bit of acid to be lost or something. But people don't tend to live under the deck boards so if, worse case scenario, a fire did start there, it most likely wouldn't consume the inhabitants , who would be somewhere more comfortable.

 

So best thing to do is not worry about securing the batteries, simply remove them before your next BSS, then replace them when the fella has gone.

 

More likely would be tipping to one side if the pound it is in empties overnight, or if the baseplate hangs in a lock etc., or for some boats, running over a submerged object. Recently my boat tipped about 20 degrees to one side when it ran over a submerged rock under a bridge, and then rolled as much the other way. In such situations, securing all batteries seems like common sense.

[notaminga]

Bss does have this requirement, a quite ridiculous one. If a narrowboat was rammed at beyond the speed limit by another boat then a battery 'might' tip over 'perhaps' causing a bit of acid to be lost or something. But people don't tend to live under the deck boards so if, worse case scenario, a fire did start there, it most likely wouldn't consume the inhabitants , who would be somewhere more comfortable.

 

So best thing to do is not worry about securing the batteries, simply remove them before your next BSS, then replace them when the fella has gone.

So, you are advising the OP to actively subvert the BSS and invalidate his insurance in the process - really responsible! You might not like aspects of the BSS, and you might be the kind of person who actively seeks to not comply with it, but advising someone else to do so is just irresponsible. Let's hope the OP sees your advice for what it is and ignores it.

[Doodlebug]

Thanks for the replies.

 

In terms of storage yes I know I would need to find the space and secure them down properly. Admittedly the ones we have are not secure which is something I am meaning to sort out soon.

 

I did an equalisation charge on the batteries last weekend. I was surprised that they are starting to die just because they had all summer connected to 360w solar power and I wasn't on the boat as much as normal so they were always fully charged.

 

Anyway, so I measured the SG before and after and It didn't seem to change much, It was about 1.15-1.20 consistently. I know this suggests that they are dead but they seem to be working just about ok for our needs.

 

I did the charge for about 4 hours. Then it got dark and I had to reconnect everything. I didn't notice much improvement on the sg.

 

I am assuming I need to run the charge for much longer than I did, but by that point the batteries were gassing and (yes I know its against the bsc and I need to change it which I am in the process of working out how to do) were venting into the boat. That caused the CO detector to go off, and left me too scared to light the stove for a few hours (of having the doors open) afterwards. I didn't fancy blowing up the boat from the hydrogen.

 

The reason I am in the process of sorting out battery boxes is that the boat was designed for one battery. The next set of owners added one, and I then added 2 more. They are under the deck, behind a trap door in an area that has a small vent, but because I have 4, they don't fit and the trap door has to be open.

 

I just need to find a way to get them all fitting nicely and venting outside.

[smileypete]

Agree sorting the battery fixing and venting arrangements first of all is a must.

 

Being off grid liveaboard in winter doesn't for easy batt reviving. If you do the daily and long weekly charge up to 14.8V, plus an hour or two at 15.5V on top of the long weekly charge, that might bring some life back. Better option would be safely separating one at a time and taking them somewhere with mains.

 

Problem with sulphated batts they take charge more slowly, so in winter get further undercharged and things go downhill from there. Not such a problem in summer when solar panels can feed the charge in over a long period of time. High summer is a good time to check the SGs are all as they should be.

 

Whenever working on batts or charging above the normal voltage, do follow all the precautions at The Battery FAQ.

 

http://www.batteryfaq.org/

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited November 22, 2013 by smileypete