STERNS

[anthony]

IM wondering about the pro's and cons of the different kinds of sterns,cruiser,semi trad and trad.

Which one is the most ideal for a live aboard and why do you think?

Naturally I appriciate this can be much of a muchness from one person to another but my thought is from a practical day to day point of view.

Perhaps you have a cruiser and wish you has a trad now or a semi trad and vice versa.

I would love to here your groans moans and grunts ect.

IM thinking trad but the other half says cruiser so she can sit out and talk while we cruise where as i think well if i need to work on the engine i want shelter without being double jointed. If I want to sit out i can sit up front. Perhaps a semi would be a comprimise.

Thanks.

[anthony]

hmmmm 44 views and not one reply guess it must be a daft question.

[bottle]

Anthony I think you may have answered your own question.

 

Not having owned a boat but hired a lot (cruiser and semi) my own boat will be a traditional.

 

No particular reason just that I prefer the 'lines'.

[Hairy-Neil]

If you're planing on cruising year round there is only one choice. Nothing else comes near.

[DHutch]

I presume your fairly aware of what the varous names translate to in real life.

- But also dont be afraid to seek to alter the fixed design.

- Ie, Gary of ledgard bridge does a "modified trad" which is basicaly half way between a semitrad and a trad. Or put another way, a trad for two people.

 

That might even be your best bet.

- Trads give you by far the most cabin space if thats what you after, which as a liveabord, you may well be.

- But as you mention, you might like room for the otherhalf to stand with you (i would), so extending the size of the hatch a little would seam to best of both worlds.

 

 

Daniel

[Yoda]

If you're planing on cruising year round there is only one choice. Nothing else comes near.

 

..........and the answer is?

[adam1uk]

hmmmm 44 views and not one reply guess it must be a daft question.

 

Well it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks, it's a matter of what suits you and your needs. Hire boats with different sterns, or go to boat shows and clamber all over them, to see which you like.

 

Having hired, I know that cruiser sterns are good socially, but you're completely exposed to the weather. They also (IMHO) don't look quite right. Having been on lots of boats at shows, I found that trads could be extraordinarily difficult to get in and out of. It's different if you've got a really traditional boat with an engine on display, but when the engine's under the floor, you end up with a little room that you have to bend double to get in to. And you have to do the contortionist act every time you want to get in or out of the boat at the stern. So, for me, a semi trad seems the idea option: room for more than one person, some protection in the rain, and easy to get in and out of the boat.

 

But don't take my word for it, find out for yourself.

[TeeELL]

Just to muddy the water (as it were) - I have an extended trad which allows a more sociable number of folk at the stern but, conversly, prevents a traditional weather proofing option of standing in the cockpit. Engine is under the deck so contortions are the order of the day especially for weed hatch ops. I will be fitting seats in due course.

[david and julie]

Its a semi-trad for me.

 

Sociable, a safe haven for kids or animals,easy access for the dirty bits and weedhatch, oodles of storage space, plus a reasonable compromise on looks.

 

The worst for me are boats with the rear door to one side, I find them even more awkward than trads to get in and out of.

 

Also consider the bow deck,ours is six feet long and we really like this outside space.

[John Orentas]

The problem with this topic and it comes up very regularly is that everyone simply says that what they have is the best thing since sliced bread, on top of that the subject is biased towards cruiser stern hire boat type boats because most peoples first experiences are with hire boats, so it is hardly surprising most folk favour that style of boat.

 

Now having said all that I now assert that the best type of boat is the type I have now, so take your pick, but in mitigation the first boat I built for myself was a cruiser stern job. Now I like engines and I like fiddling about with things mechanical and electric and I don't like getting cold and wet while I'm fiddling. That means a traditional style with a big dry, comfortable engine room where I can hide from spouse for a few hours, playing about with whatever takes my fancy.

 

The semi-traditional is now finding a lot of favour, I find them to be an abomination, the worst of all words. A dank, dark engine compartment, designed to make you bang your head on all the miscellaneous tackle that is hanging around in a random fashion, worse than the light airy compartment of a cruiser, rain will trickle down the back of your neck as you tackle the simplest task on your wet oily engine.

 

There you are, a totally unbiased view, just like all the others, wasn't that a valuable contribution.

[Hairy-Neil]

Its a semi-trad for me.

 

But do you use it year round.........

 

For the same reasons that most motorcycles are parked up for the winter, a cruiser or semi is best saved for the summer months.

 

200 years of traditional narrowboat design evolution cannot be wrong.

[TeeELL]

'200 years of traditional narrowboat design evolution cannot be wrong.'

 

Hairy, you are absolutely right! That is, if we all wanted to carry the maximum amount of coal,cement etc in the hold!! Truth is, everyone is entitled to the design that is their preference ie I have an 'extended trad' a friend has a cruiser stern another a semi-trad - and I am happy to go cruising on any of them. The real answer to the original question is try them, look at them, holiday on them - at the end of it all buy the boat that 'speaks to you' when you are looking around - and accept whatever stern it has.

[anthony]

I dont agree i ansewred my own question but rather was thinking out loud to get some of your idea's to help me out.

I must say what a veriety too fantastic thanks.

The extended trad sounds good.

We had a cruiser before and used it in wet weather and although great for sitting out on the engine bay and you just gets soaked.

Then there is the idea of having a deck house on the cruiser stern which does appeal but i need to see more of this really.

The only trad ive been on was Johns and cant remember if you needed to be double jointed or not although the engine room was mint.

If stationary then surely you would just sit up front together socially.

The idea of renting out different types seems expensive although a good idea.

Need to do more thinking.

Edited October 26, 2006 by anthony

[Bones]

I like the trad - stops too many people hanging around at the back and ensures they are up the front with the kettle!

[Crazy Scheme]

I've got a semi trad - I like the extra space at the back - I dry my washing there when we are cruising. I plan to get a pram hood made as I think it might be an extra handy bit of space when we are moored. I do think it's a personal choice though.

 

Heres what I've found, having owned a semi-trad and cruised the other types (IMO of course)

 

Trad: Pros: lovely warm engine room - easy access to engine whilst not getting rained on, handy place to store tools, in cold weather you can stand in the doorway to warm your legs as you cruise. More cabin space indoors. Best for winter. Cons: Not very social unless everyone sits on the roof.

 

Semi Trad: Safe haven for kids and pets away from the tiller. Social. Somewhere to store bikes and other junk. Cons: You have to sacrifice some cabin space. The engine can be a bugger to get to.

 

Cruiser: Very social, especially great in the summer, engine access better than semi trad. Cons: Although social, you could take out all your mates on tight bends if they don't get out of the way. Not as safe as a semi trad for kids and pets.

[Christine]

I'd go for a semi-trad in the summer and a Trad with boatmans stove in the winter. During one week out in March in driving rain/hail/snow/strong winds certainly showed that years of traditional boat design had accounted for bad weather.

 

On my September trips with the kids it's great to be chugging along with everyone up the back, beers/guitars etc.

 

Therefore what I really need is a very rich old geezer with a dicky heart and I could have a veritable wardrobe of sterns to choose from.

[Hairy-Neil]

'200 years of traditional narrowboat design evolution cannot be wrong.'

 

Hairy, you are absolutely right! That is, if we all wanted to carry the maximum amount of coal,cement etc in the hold!!

 

What has the maximum carrying capacity to do with the design of the stern?????

 

 

 

Truth is, everyone is entitled to the design that is their preference.....

 

 

I never suggested otherwise. As I understand it, Anthony asked for opinions, I gave him mine.

 

 

...... and I am happy to go cruising on any of them.

 

Me too. I've steered them all, and have also steered both centre cockpit and regular wheel steered cruisers too.

 

 

 

at the end of it all buy the boat that 'speaks to you' when you are looking around - and accept whatever stern it has.

 

Let your heart decide..........How romantic........

 

Remember a compromise is neither here nor there. On a wet day in february you'd be glad you did.

Edited October 26, 2006 by Hairy-Neil

[TeeELL]

Well H-N,

in order to maximise carrying capacity living/operating space was compressed into the last few feet of the boat - agreed? Thus we have a 'traditional' stern with precious little space for anyone other than the 'Number One' or his 'Best mate' (whomsoever is steering). This isn't a dig - I've essentially a trad stern on 'ELEMIAH'.

The 'everyone is entitled to their design' was not directed at your reply - accept my apologies for that.

[John Orentas]

Well H-N,

in order to maximise carrying capacity living/operating space was compressed into the last few feet of the boat - agreed? Thus we have a 'traditional' stern with precious little space for anyone other than the 'Number One' or his 'Best mate' (whomsoever is steering). This isn't a dig - I've essentially a trad stern on 'ELEMIAH'.

The 'everyone is entitled to their design' was not directed at your reply - accept my apologies for that.

 

I spent a long time sneaking around measuring rear decks among other things, if I recall the working boats had no more than 1ft. 6ins. I wanted to design into my boat the largest deck which still looked 'right'. I think I ended up with 3ft.

[Bones]

I spent a long time sneaking around measuring .....

 

Bones raises an eyebrow and then roars with laughter.

 

My stern desk is about 3ft I think. It does seem to be a bit bigger than my chums. I certainly like being able to access the engine from undercover.

[Christine]

I'd go for a semi-trad in the summer and a Trad with boatmans stove in the winter. During one week when we were out in March in driving rain/hail/snow/strong winds certainly proved that years of traditional boat building had accounted for bad weather.

 

On my September trips with the kids it's great to be chugging along with everyone up the back, beers/guitars etc.

 

Therefore what I really need is a very rich old geezer with a dicky heart and I could have a veritable wardrobe of sterns for all weathers to choose from.

[anthony]

lol Christine what are you like?

[Breals]

I'm sure Gary could come up with a push-button convertible stern!

 

They all have their pros and cons, so TeELL's advice of going with the boat that appeals to you, regardless of stern, is sound IMHO. Although I was looking for a trad, I ended up with a cruiser stern. It has turned out quite well - great in the summer, and gives me a bit of private outdoor space, but in winter it can be freezing and wet!

 

I do have a sort of wheelhouse cover (windscreen, steel roof, steel supports and vinyl sides) which I do use in the worst weather. It's great when it's up (I like to pretend I have a Dutch Barge) but a pig to put up and down.

Edited October 26, 2006 by Breals

[David Schweizer]

I am always a bit confused when this subject is discussed, as to why people talk about cruiser sterns being sociable and trad sterns being a lonely refuge. Some people seem to want to invent problems that simply don't exist, my boat has a trad stern and if someone wishes to join the steerer for a chat, they sit on the roof with their legs hanging over the cabin edge.

[Hairy-Neil]

The 'everyone is entitled to their design' was not directed at your reply - accept my apologies for that.

 

Accepted.

 

 

in order to maximise carrying capacity living/operating space was compressed into the last few feet of the boat - agreed?

 

 

Agreed...... But the trad engine room takes up no more linear space than the engine 'ole of a cruiser or semi-trad design. I believe the cruiser stern came about to make engine maintenance simpler on the new breed of hire boats, rather than as a platform for social gatherings.

 

......But there's more to it than that. The boatmen worked long hard days, summer and winter in all weathers. Some boats at times even worked fly (round the clock). Can you imagine spending maybe 16 hours at the tiller of a cruiser stern in february? No, the boaters sheltered in the hatches of the back cabin with the coal fired range glowing at their feet, the cabin doors closed behind them to funnel the heat up their jacket.

 

In warmer weather the steerer would sit on the cabin roof, feet dangling in the hatches and steer the boat from there. I find on many modern trad hulls the design and position of the tiller/steerers step/cabin top is often badly executed and that which comes natural on an historic boat becomes cumbersome if not impossible. Trad in name only, a twee reinvention of the wheel if you like.

 

Ok, then they mostly had nobody to socialise with while on the move, their partner mostly steering the butty and additional crew members if there were any would be cycling ahead setting the locks ready.

 

My maternal grandmother's family were off the boats, Bentons, Cottons & Holdbacks if anyone can help with info. It was a hard life and they left it long ago for the relatively easy life of coal heavers at Uxbridge, Middx.