condensation BETWEEN window panes

[sassan]

Hi All,

 

We have a small amount of condensation between the panes of our windows.

The amount of water doesnt seem to be increasing, and is not a major problem but it does reduce what we can see out of the windows.

 

Any condensation on the inside goes away when the boat is warm, but the condensation between the panes just stays there.

 

I'm thinking of just seeing if I can take the inside pane off, dry things out and put it back, maybe with some sealant to stop future water getting in.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

Sassan

[BargeeSpud]

If these are sealed double glazed units, isn't it usually a sign that they've "blown"? If so, I doubt they can be repaired so to speak.

[Guest]

If these are sealed double glazed units, isn't it usually a sign that they've "blown"? If so, I doubt they can be repaired so to speak.

 

I think I'm inclined to agree TBH. The only double glazed windows I've seen successfully dried out are the poly-plastic ones on caravans where we were able to remove a small plastic bung on the inside and dry them out thoroughly and then replace the bung.

 

I can't see how you can do anything similar with a boat window, if it is a 'sealed' type.

 

Caveat - unless it is the same type of window of course which it could be on something like a GRP cruiser...

 

.

Edited February 28, 2013 by The Dog House

[Ally]

What type of windows (double glazed or 'secondary') who from and how old. Still young enough to be under warranty?

[sassan]

Old, probably 70s.

Don't think they are actually supposed to be double glazing as such (ie: vacuum), just two panes. Could be wrong though.

Could it be worth just drilling some ventilation holes on the inside pane? If they're small then shouldn't lose too much extra heat? I'll try removing them and looking at the construction first, probably at the weekend.

 

Thanks

Sassan

[Rich]

Old, probably 70s.

Don't think they are actually supposed to be double glazing as such (ie: vacuum), just two panes. Could be wrong though.

Could it be worth just drilling some ventilation holes on the inside pane? If they're small then shouldn't lose too much extra heat? I'll try removing them and looking at the construction first, probably at the weekend.

 

Thanks

Sassan

 

Do they have an aluminium bar between the two panes. If so they are very likely to be sealed units in which case once condensation appears they have had it. 40 years old isn't doing to badly.

[Guest]

Do they have an aluminium bar between the two panes. If so they are very likely to be sealed units in which case once condensation appears they have had it. 40 years old isn't doing to badly.

 

Particularly on a boat where they will be subject to a lot more vibration than on a domestic install.......

[sassan]

Do they have an aluminium bar between the two panes. If so they are very likely to be sealed units in which case once condensation appears they have had it. 40 years old isn't doing to badly.

 

Yep, believe they do. I'll investigate a little, but if it's as you say, probably better to just replace them.

[Rich]

Yep, believe they do. I'll investigate a little, but if it's as you say, probably better to just replace them.

Just one more bit of advice, shop round, quality and price.

[sassan]

Just one more bit of advice, shop round, quality and price.

 

Anything in particular I should look for in my replacements? Any recommended suppliers?

 

Is it easy enough to fit them myself? Or is it worth getting a professional for this type of thing?

[Rich]

Anything in particular I should look for in my replacements? Any recommended suppliers?

 

Is it easy enough to fit them myself? Or is it worth getting a professional for this type of thing?

Phone round locally, there can't be many places without it share of dg unit makers or suppliers. Builders merchants and glaziers may be able to order them.

 

As for fitting, I am happy to give you some tips if you want. It isn't difficult. What are the frames made of? And how are the panels held in place?

[ditchcrawler]

Old, probably 70s.

Don't think they are actually supposed to be double glazing as such (ie: vacuum), just two panes. Could be wrong though.

Could it be worth just drilling some ventilation holes on the inside pane? If they're small then shouldn't lose too much extra heat? I'll try removing them and looking at the construction first, probably at the weekend.

 

Thanks

Sassan

Are they glass or plastic?

[sassan]

Are they glass or plastic?

 

I think glass, but will check when I get home.

 

Phone round locally, there can't be many places without it share of dg unit makers or suppliers. Builders merchants and glaziers may be able to order them.

 

As for fitting, I am happy to give you some tips if you want. It isn't difficult. What are the frames made of? And how are the panels held in place?

 

The frames are metal, screwed to the wooden walls.

[Rich]

The frames are metal, screwed to the wooden walls.

Have you sussed out how to get the units out. The usual way is via four beads clipped into the frame. These either need prising out, or, they may be the type where the rubber gasket between the bead and the unit has to come out first to release the beads. If there is no trace of separate beads and the frame fixing screws can be seen you may have to get the frame out and then remove the screws holding the frame together which will be situated in each corner on the outside edge of the frame.

 

When you have had a chance to have a good look let me know and I will try to help further.

[sassan]

Information from the survey report:

Natural lighting is provided through anodised framed hopper type windows and the windows/ports in the engine compartment are circular, the glassing is believed of safety-toughened glassed.

As viewed the window-frames were serviceable and internally appear “tight” without sign of leakage, although during this survey the windows-frames & hatches were not hose-tested for water-tightness, it should be appreciated that window seals do not gave an infinite life therefore their condition should be monitored.

[Rich]

Information from the survey report:

 

Are the frames the usual type with rounded corners. If so I suspect that you will have to take them out and dis-assemble them to get the unit out. This is the way that most boat window work. When we were ordering windows for our boat I enquired about double glazing and all I got was blank looks, so we've got single glazing with temp plastic sheet over in the winter.

[sassan]

Are the frames the usual type with rounded corners. If so I suspect that you will have to take them out and dis-assemble them to get the unit out. This is the way that most boat window work. When we were ordering windows for our boat I enquired about double glazing and all I got was blank looks, so we've got single glazing with temp plastic sheet over in the winter.

 

Yep, they are the type with rounded corners. Double glazed 4/5 of the height and then a single pane at the top which opens.

[bag 'o' bones]

A few thoughts

 

Assuming the window units are made in the same way as domestic versions: aluminum spacer filled with dessicant sandwiched between two panes of glass and sealed with hot mastic - then any glass maker should be able to make new ones assuming they are able to make radiused corners.

 

On the subject of the sealed units failing, one of the reasons why early units failed was because they were attached to the frames too tightly so when the frame flexed so did the sealed unit. add to that the glass expanding and contracting at a diffrent rates to that of the frame then you can imagine the stress put on the sealing material. These days modern SU's 'float' within the frame to reduce the problem. Also on opening lights the glass spacers are arranged in such a way to transfer the weight of the sealed unit to the bottom hinge which reduces stress on the SU when the window is opened and closed.

Also SU's are don't have a vaccuum for the simple reason the panes of glass would be sucked together, instead they are filled with inert gas.

 

As for rescuing failed units its impossible to remove the condensation satifactorily and even then its a temporary solution.

Edited February 28, 2013 by bag 'o' bones

[nb Innisfree]

If I had sealed DG I would try to drill two small holes in the spacing/sealing edges and occasionaly inject argon gas into one to displace any air and moisture through the second hole and then seal the holes with small bolts screwed in, perhaps with rubber sealing washers.

 

I can't really think of any reasons it couldn't be made to work.

Edited February 28, 2013 by nb Innisfree

[ditchcrawler]

If I had sealed DG I would try to drill two small holes in the spacing/sealing edges and occasionaly inject argon gas into one to displace any air and moisture through the second hole and then seal the holes with small bolts screwed in, perhaps with rubber sealing washers.

 

I can't really think of any reasons it couldn't be made to work.

You wont have fixed the original failure so it could soon reoccur.

[nb Innisfree]

You wont have fixed the original failure so it could soon reoccur.

True but it seems that the seal on all DG leaks sooner or later, especially on a boat with all the inherent flexing and movement, so why not make it easy to regularly displace air with an inert gas.

[chazzy]

True but it seems that the seal on all DG leaks sooner or later, especially on a boat with all the inherent flexing and movement, so why not make it easy to regularly displace air with an inert gas.

 

 

Being unable to clean inside the unit, eventually you will end up with a misting inside the unit that wont clear.

[sassan]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the responses. I had a look last night and there are already a couple of ventilation holes in the bottom of each frame to allow fresh air between the panes.

Therefore I reckon it'll probably clear in the summer.

 

Thanks for all the advice, I shall keep it in mind in case the problem does not clear with the better weather.

 

Thanks

Sassan

[nb Innisfree]

Being unable to clean inside the unit, eventually you will end up with a misting inside the unit that wont clear.

What sort of misting?

[Ally]

If you do end up replacing the double glazed sections, the easiest...though not necessarily cheapest way will be to go to the original manufacturers. Otherwise, most boat hopper windows are fairly standard, so if you don't know who did them originally, any of the marine window companies, such as Wesley, Channel glaze, caldwells etc, should be able to replace the units for you, as standard. Prices vary massively, but most do double glazed units now. Ring around.

A good few small independant glazing companies can tackle such units too, though some automatically say no when faced with radii.