Mooring fee

[Water Rat.]

My fixed three year mooring fee is coming to an end in March. What should I expect and how will the fee be calculated? Am I going to have to pay more?

[Laurie Booth]

My fixed three year mooring fee is coming to an end in March. What should I expect and how will the fee be calculated? Am I going to have to pay more?

Yes

[George94]

My fixed three year mooring fee is coming to an end in March. What should I expect and how will the fee be calculated? Am I going to have to pay more?

 

Most unlikely, I should have thought.

 

But those helpful people at the ONS tell me that over the last three years the CPI has risen by 10.85%, and the RPI by 13.33%. (That's to September)

 

So if they try to sting you for more than 13.33%, complain vigorously.

 

It was of course Mr G Brown's decision to use the CPI for calculating inflation that was one of the factors that got us into the present mess. While the cost of many imported goods was falling thanks to those industrious Chinese, the price of houses was rocketing, and the Bank of England did nothing about it. They were only concerned with the CPI, which excludes house prices.

 

Brown was advised by a certain Edward Balls, who another Edward wants to make Chancellor if Labour wins the next election.

 

So, if you think things couldn't get worse than they already are, try a two-Edded government.

[Laurie Booth]

Most unlikely, I should have thought.

 

But those helpful people at the ONS tell me that over the last three years the CPI has risen by 10.85%, and the RPI by 13.33%. (That's to September)

 

So if they try to sting you for more than 13.33%, complain vigorously.

 

It was of course Mr G Brown's decision to use the CPI for calculating inflation that was one of the factors that got us into the present mess. While the cost of many imported goods was falling thanks to those industrious Chinese, the price of houses was rocketing, and the Bank of England did nothing about it. They were only concerned with the CPI, which excludes house prices.

 

Brown was advised by a certain Edward Balls, who another Edward wants to make Chancellor if Labour wins the next election.

 

So, if you think things couldn't get worse than they already are, try a two-Edded government.

We can expect inflation to hit 25% within 6 years if the Tories stay in power.

[George94]

We can expect inflation to hit 25% within 6 years if the Tories stay in power.

 

We can expect high inflation whoever wins the next election. When assets are over-valued (UK house prices, Greek plumbers' salaries, etc.,) the least painful way out is inflation.

 

It's always been the solution.

 

The coalition is right to try to reduce the size of the public sector, and had it not been for the problems with the Euro, things would be looking much better now. However, we are where we are, and I suspect we will be seeing some big infrastructure projects being announced over the next few months.

[stickleback]

We can expect high inflation whoever wins the next election. When assets are over-valued (UK house prices, Greek plumbers' salaries, etc.,) the least painful way out is inflation.

 

It's always been the solution.

 

The coalition is right to try to reduce the size of the public sector, and had it not been for the problems with the Euro, things would be looking much better now. However, we are where we are, and I suspect we will be seeing some big infrastructure projects being announced over the next few months.

 

 

Agree!!

[Laurie Booth]

We can expect high inflation whoever wins the next election. When assets are over-valued (UK house prices, Greek plumbers' salaries, etc.,) the least painful way out is inflation.

 

It's always been the solution.

 

The coalition is right to try to reduce the size of the public sector, and had it not been for the problems with the Euro, things would be looking much better now. However, we are where we are, and I suspect we will be seeing some big infrastructure projects being announced over the next few months.

Like an Olympic Village/Stadium etc.

[George94]

Like an Olympic Village/Stadium etc.

 

That was a big help, as is Cross-rail.

 

If I were Cameron, I'd start building another runway at Heathrow sharpish. Plus something oop North to pacify the natives. Maybe a few inner-city nuclear power-stations, in Manchester, Liverpool, and Newcastle, so as not to alienate Tory-voting country-dwellers.

 

Then reserve the jobs for people on the dole. Might result in a few dodgy power stations, but that's OK because they'd be miles from London.

 

But I'm not Cameron, so rest easy.

Edited October 20, 2012 by George94

[alan_fincher]

My fixed three year mooring fee is coming to an end in March. What should I expect and how will the fee be calculated? Am I going to have to pay more?

You will be offered a renewal at the standard rate for the site, (which is the same as the "guide" price if they auctioned it).

 

It will be considerably more than you currently pay, because you got it at only reserve, and the costs will have gone up considerably since.

 

Those berths are priced by the pontoon (short pontoon) in your case, so it is a fixed published price.

 

If you can pay a year in advance, you can get the 10% prompt payment discount.

 

We are just going through this, but in our case the price is less, because we have been paying way over "guide" throughout our three year contract.

[Chris Davidson]

Our 3 year mooring has just come to an end, the offer for the next year is roughly the same price.

However if we pay for the coming years mooring before the start of the agreement we get a 10% discount,

meaning we are paying £100 less for our mooring than before.

 

Hope this helps, Chris

[Boat&Bikes]

We can expect inflation to hit 25% within 6 years if the Tories stay in power.

Bet you it wont

[nebulae]

Quantitive easing is an inventive way to describe printing money.When you print money you cause an inflationary presure.Both flavours of government have done this.Inevitably the cost of most things will continue to rise.Moral of the story,if you had a cristal ball and could fortell the future rate of inflation you could become very rich.What it all means is that our hobby(our home)is going to get more expensive.

[Laurie Booth]

Bet you it wont

I agree the Tories won't get in.

[George94]

I agree the Tories won't get in.

 

I agree we have a pretty stupid electorate.

[boathunter]

The trouble is each election is decided by a gullible minority who don't understand politics, have no real interest in it and are easily led (they must be - they keep changing their minds).

[Laurie Booth]

I agree we have a pretty stupid electorate.

Dare I say plebs?

Edited October 20, 2012 by Laurie.Booth

[Water Rat.]

You are all off

 

Thank you Alan for the answer I was seeking and not continuing with a political debate.

 

You can carry on now with the tory bashing.

[alan_fincher]

You are all off

 

Thank you Alan for the answer I was seeking and not continuing with a political debate.

 

You can carry on now with the tory bashing.

Julie,

 

The published "standard" prices for those berths are.....

 

Bucks & Herts

Grand Union Canal (Mainline)

Cooks Wharf (Short)

£2,035.94 (for renewals 01/04/12 to 31/03/13) (VAT is included)

 

Paying up front with 10% early payment discount will reduce that to £1,832.35

 

So obviously you are going to see quite an increase, I'm afraid.

 

I think you'll find it still compares well to any local marina pontoon berth with vaguely similar facilities though.

 

Up until a few months back, I'd have said it might be worth gambling on not taking their renewal, and hoping it comes up for auction again quickly, and that you could still win it as less than "guide". However now they have hiked the minimum "reserve" price on all moorings to be 90% of guide, even if you got it at that, it would be exactly the same prices as you will pay at renewal, if you go foir the discounted 10% option.

 

The days of bargains like you had for the last 3 years are now sadly closed off.

[George94]

 

The days of bargains like you had for the last 3 years are now sadly closed off.

 

Until economic malaise and a policy of driving away people who don't cruise enough to suit C&RT results in lower demand.

[alan_fincher]

Until economic malaise and a policy of driving away people who don't cruise enough to suit C&RT results in lower demand.

OK, we are again, but it might be relevant as to how some people coming up for a renewal play their cards.....

 

I actually don't think CRT are ever likely to move back to a situation where moorings get let at a "reserve" price significantly below "guide".

 

I think when they were doing this, people were bidding, getting them cheaply, and then giving up an equivalent mooring where they were currently paying full price.

 

I believe the consistent hiking of the "reserve" price is to try and stop them losing revenue by people giving up full price moorings.

 

Of course this results in loads of vacancies not letting at all, (often repeatedly), and makes a mockery of at least two things they claim.....

 

1) They let the market determine the rate.

and

2) It is not economic to let the mooring at less than the chosen reserve.

 

Taken just in respect of the mooring being auctioned at the time, how can (2) possibly be true ? It must be more economic to let most towpath moorings go at 75% of "guide", than not at all.

 

I don't think you'll ever get them to admit that this was a greedy and ill thought idea that they didn't fully think through the consequences of.

 

The reality, of course, is that this was a greedy and ill thought idea that they didn't fully think through the consequences of!

[alan_fincher]

My OH has just pointed out that people commenting may not be aware of the vagaries that apply with the moorings tender and auctions system.

 

The prices paid by successful bidders are public information, so I'm not saying anything here you can't go and look up.

 

Julie moors her boat at the same CRT off-side pontoon moorings that we moor Chalice, and here boats are charged "by pontoon", not by metre length of the boat.

 

We won our mooring in Oct 2009, under the old "sealed bids" / "tender system" and for three years have paid £2,262 per year - that was 22% more than existing moorers, even if they were not also subtracting 10% for prompt payment.

 

Julie won her mooring in Feb 2010, under the new "open bids" / "auction system", and for three years has paid £1,422 per year.

 

I can't believe that in just 4 months the true value of such a mooring fell £840 per annum, and I think all you can really say is that we have been a bit unlucky for the past 3 years, whereas Julie bagged a (relative) bargain. (Although we would still have paid a lot more had we stayed in a marina.)

 

Both of us now potentially go back onto the standard price, currently £2,035.94 or £1,832.35 if you pay a years in advance with prompt payment discount.

 

So (assuming the discount) ours has come down about £430, whereas Julie's will go up a bit less at £410.

 

So, (I hope Julie won't mind me saying this!), Julie can either feel aggrieved that it is going to go up so much, or pleased that she has had a very much cheaper (fixed) price for a three year contract.

 

Hopefully the above numbers, directly comparing two moorings won at the same site, give an idea how bonkers the system is.

 

But if still not convinced, here are the other prices paid....

 

£2,605 (July 2010) 35% over guide - These people gave it up and have gone continuous cruising locally - BW never attempted to relet.

 

And for a long pontoon at the same site, (that will take a full length boat)

 

£2,027 (May 2011) this one only making "reserve" which at that time was just 75% of guide.

 

The system is pretty random, and, as can be seen, preduces winning bids that are also pretty random!

[Higgs]

The system is pretty random, and, as can be seen, preduces winning bids that are also pretty random!

 

Julie's mooring does not have adequate width space for the two boat spaces it is deemed to have. Lucky if you can fit a hosepipe between two boats there. This may have had some bearing on the price it was gained for. I don't know wether this space should be challenged as restrictive. I do think there are grounds for debate.

[alan_fincher]

Julie's mooring does not have adequate width space for the two boat spaces it is deemed to have. Lucky if you can fit a hosepipe between two boats there. This may have had some bearing on the price it was gained for. I don't know wether this space should be challenged as restrictive. I do think there are grounds for debate.

Yes,

 

I should have acknowledged that.

 

But as they seem to have abandoned any idea of now letting the other space she shares with, she actually now has a 14 foot space for a boat that is under 7 feet.

[Higgs]

Yes,

 

I should have acknowledged that.

 

But as they seem to have abandoned any idea of now letting the other space she shares with, she actually now has a 14 foot space for a boat that is under 7 feet.

 

I guess that would compensate. Bet you still find bits of fishing bait on the front of your boats. They like to try for the fish lurking below the boats.

[Lesd]

Sounds like it would make a nice spot for a wider boat if it ever came free !