Flojet water pump

[Penny Black]

I have a Flojet R4305-500 water pump which has been working perfectly for the three months I've had this boat. We went for our first longish cruise the other day and survived on battery power for the night (liveaboard, normally on mains), but the batteries failed to power the inverter after about 6 hours and by morning the 12V lights were dimming a bit. During that evening the cold water taps started spluttering violently when opened and the pump won't switch off or retain any pressure. It has been the same ever since, we're now back at the security of our mains mooring.

 

The water tank is full - this is how the pump would normally behave when the tank is too low. I've checked the pressure switch by shorting the two spade sonnectors with tap open and it made no difference. I took the pump apart (but haven't dissassembled the motor yet), cleaned the mesh filter and rubber diaphragms, which didn't seem dirty at all, and it has made no difference.

 

I don't know how old the pump is but it seems strange that it was working perfectly and now suddenly this - is it a coincidence that it's happened after our first day of proper cruising (with a partial power down and the odd slight knock to the bow end in locks)? Or could it be related to a pressure problem of some sort with the calorifier (the shower pulls hot water from here and cold from the pump - the shower was the last water valve to work properly - we both had steaming hot showers after the day of cruising, cold taps have not worked since. Or could it be a problem between the water tank and the pump, the feed line etc? I've tried running it with the tank cover off, in case the breather hole had become blocked, and still the spluttering nothingness.

 

Want to rule out all other possibilities before I consider taking the pump mortor apart and/or replacing the pump. Have emailed previous owner to find out how old it is. Can't see it being blocked up given that the parts I have already dissassembled were so clean.

 

Please help, someone, as soon as possible! The washing up is piling up and my girlfriend's patience is being tested. I have read all threads relating to similar problems, carried out the suggestions, and still the problem persists. I've opened all taps at once hoping to blast the air out of the system but to no avail.

 

Many thanks in advance.

[Wanted]

It sounds like you have air in the system somewhere. How long have you left the taps open for?

 

Check all of the pipe breaks along the system are holding and not allowing air to be bought in.

 

Also, did the water run low whilst you were out and then you filled up? Or did you fill up before it got to low?

[Penny Black]

Thanks for the speedy response. Yes it does seem like there's air in the system and it just needs blasting through, but how do I do that? I've left the taps open for five minutes or so and after initial spluttering of air they go silent and the pump just whirs away. I have checked the pipes I can get to but not those betwen the water tank and pump. Can't see why anything would have changed as it was working fine before. Like I said, one or two tiny knocks in locks but nothing at all major.

 

The water didn't run low, I filled the tank before we left and have checked thrice that it's still full. Could the air lock be in the calorifier? - When I switch the pump on at the fuses, the immersion tank gurgles as it tries to pull water in.

 

Thanks,

 

R

 

 

It sounds like you have air in the system somewhere. How long have you left the taps open for?

 

Check all of the pipe breaks along the system are holding and not allowing air to be bought in.

 

Also, did the water run low whilst you were out and then you filled up? Or did you fill up before it got to low?

[bigcol]

Hi

 

IF you have run out of water or got low

 

Now you've filled the tank, it sounds that the water feed to pump might be blocked with some crap which may have been sucked up when tank was low.

 

It's easy to disconnect pump in and out and test pump with small hose and bowl.

If pump don't pump water like this then blocked waterpump

If pump works then blockage in feed before pump.

 

Hope you get sorted soon

 

Other wise paper cups and plates!!

Edited September 12, 2012 by bigcol

[alan_fincher]

Can you disconnect the inlet pipe to the pump from the tank, and prove that water will freely flow through the pipe from the water tank, as far as the pump.

 

It is possible this has nowt to do with the pump itself, but that the water supply from the tank has become restricted.

 

Depending on the tank type you have, and where the water is drawn off from it, blockages at the point the pipe leaves the tank are not unknown, particularly if it were an old integral tank, with various debris floating around in it.

 

It is just possible your minor bump has dislodged some muck that is now partially or almost completely blocking the supply pipe from tank to pump.

 

If you can, disconnect it, to rule that out of the equation.....

[Penny Black]

Can you disconnect the inlet pipe to the pump from the tank, and prove that water will freely flow through the pipe from the water tank, as far as the pump.

 

It is possible this has nowt to do with the pump itself, but that the water supply from the tank has become restricted.

 

Depending on the tank type you have, and where the water is drawn off from it, blockages at the point the pipe leaves the tank are not unknown, particularly if it were an old integral tank, with various debris floating around in it.

 

It is just possible your minor bump has dislodged some muck that is now partially or almost completely blocking the supply pipe from tank to pump.

 

If you can, disconnect it, to rule that out of the equation.....

 

Thanks both

 

It feels like the problem is pre-pump so I'll try this now and post back.

 

R

[Penny Black]

Thanks both

 

It feels like the problem is pre-pump so I'll try this now and post back.

 

R

 

Ok, I disconnected the inlet pipe to the pump and with the stop cock and service valve open there is no flow of water from the pipe. Pretty sure the pipework/pump is below the top level of water tank, which is full. So it seems you may be right, the blockage is somewhere between the water tank and the pump? If so, how do I go about rectifying this? The feed line from the tank is very inaccessible, would have to dismantle stairs to get at it I think. Can I somehow try pumping water back to the tank to dislodge whatever is blocking it?

 

R

 

Ok, I disconnected the inlet pipe to the pump and with the stop cock and service valve open there is no flow of water from the pipe. Pretty sure the pipework/pump is below the top level of water tank, which is full. So it seems you may be right, the blockage is somewhere between the water tank and the pump? If so, how do I go about rectifying this? The feed line from the tank is very inaccessible, would have to dismantle stairs to get at it I think. Can I somehow try pumping water back to the tank to dislodge whatever is blocking it?

 

R

 

And I also just put the pump's in-arm in a tup of water and it sucked it through fine. Which would seem to further confirm the above. So at least it seems I don't need a new pump, but how the hell do I get the line from the tank working/unblocked?!

 

R

[Wanted]

How good are your lungs?

 

 

Can you access a sub pump to drain the tank? The blow up the pipe? How accessible is your watertank?

[Penny Black]

How good are your lungs?

 

 

Can you access a sub pump to drain the tank? The blow up the pipe? How accessible is your watertank?

 

The tank is not accessible at all. To get to the feed pipe I'd have to dismantle stairs etc. I know this because the previous owner thought there may be a slight leak at the top of the fill hole (if filled right up to the fill hole, the level drops to just beneath it with no taps on). Apparently it's a common source of leaking into bilge but he did nothing about it due to the inaccessibility of the tank. Don't think this potential leak is related to my flow problem as it's been working fine until now; I avert the leak problem by never filling it right up to the brim (fill it to an inch or two from top of tank). So, shall I make myself look silly by trying to blow down the inlet pipe?! Or do I need equipment, or can I turn the pump around and use it to pump the other way from a bucket of water? That would mean detaching it from the floor, etc., bit of a pain...

 

R

[MikeV]

So, shall I make myself look silly by trying to blow down the inlet pipe?!

Can you get a mains water supply via a hose to blow up the pipe? You'd just need to put a suitable connector on the pipe to the tank and connect the hose to it. Make sure you turn on the tap gently to start with!

 

Also, what type of tank is it? Stainless steel or integral, or some other type. If integral, when was it last blacked?

[Penny Black]

Can you get a mains water supply via a hose to blow up the pipe? You'd just need to put a suitable connector on the pipe to the tank and connect the hose to it. Make sure you turn on the tap gently to start with!

 

Also, what type of tank is it? Stainless steel or integral, or some other type. If integral, when was it last blacked?

 

Pretty sure the tank is stainless steel. That's what I was told. Will look into finding the right hose connector or find someone here with a pump or some bright idea.

 

Really appreciate the speedy advice guys, thanks a lot. Keep them coming if anyone has more ideas.

 

R

[Keeping Up]

Personally if it wasn't possible to clear the blockage by blowing into the pipe, I'd swap the hoses on the pump and blow that way. That's another good reason - apart from the noise reduction, in having flexible hoses to and from the pump.

 

Although it doesn't sound as if this is your problem now, it is worth noting that if the batteries get too low (inverter not working, dim lights, etc) the pump may not be able to get enough power to reach the pressure it needs to operate the pressure switch. This will result on the pump staying on, possibly stalled, which can damage the pump motor as well as further flattening the batteries.

[Barry]

Personally if it wasn't possible to clear the blockage by blowing into the pipe, I'd swap the hoses on the pump and blow that way. That's another good reason - apart from the noise reduction, in having flexible hoses to and from the pump.

 

Although it doesn't sound as if this is your problem now, it is worth noting that if the batteries get too low (inverter not working, dim lights, etc) the pump may not be able to get enough power to reach the pressure it needs to operate the pressure switch. This will result on the pump staying on, possibly stalled, which can damage the pump motor as well as further flattening the batteries.

 

This is worth a try

 

On a shower that had a blockage recently I took the pump off its mounting (only 4 wood screws), turned it round, put the inlet into a washing up bowl and connected the pump outlet to the inlet pipe.

 

Known as 'back flushing' in my old trade.

 

Worked a treat.

 

If you 'back flush' the blockage back into the tank there is a chance that it will block again - you might have to consider cleaning the tank out at some stage

Edited September 12, 2012 by Bazza2

[Penny Black]

Having greatfully received all your helpful comments, I have a confession to make. Having spent an evening and a morning trying out all suggestions, and getting to know my Flojet more intimately than I'd expected to so soon, I've discovered the cause of the problem. The tank was practically empty. In my defence I did check this three times, but it seems that I was overestimating both the size of the tank and the strength of our water supply. I've been careful not to ever fill it to the brim as there's a suspected leak from the top of the filler pipe; apparently I was being a little over-cautious.

 

Sorry for wasting your time but on the bright side, this could be a valuable lesson for anyone encountering problems - check the obvious, then check it again, then check it three more times. And, of course, we're all a bit better informed on how to deal with a tank-to-pipe blockage, if it should ever actually occur.

 

So, let the finger-pointing and incredulous head-shaking begin...

[alan_fincher]

Sorry for wasting your time but on the bright side, this could be a valuable lesson for anyone encountering problems - check the obvious, then check it again, then check it three more times.

Indeed!

 

The knowledge can go even further than your fresh water tank.....

 

Some forum members have had similar difficulties assuming there are still adequate supplies in their diesel tank!

[tafelberg]

Having greatfully received all your helpful comments, I have a confession to make. Having spent an evening and a morning trying out all suggestions, and getting to know my Flojet more intimately than I'd expected to so soon, I've discovered the cause of the problem. The tank was practically empty. In my defence I did check this three times, but it seems that I was overestimating both the size of the tank and the strength of our water supply. I've been careful not to ever fill it to the brim as there's a suspected leak from the top of the filler pipe; apparently I was being a little over-cautious.

 

Sorry for wasting your time but on the bright side, this could be a valuable lesson for anyone encountering problems - check the obvious, then check it again, then check it three more times. And, of course, we're all a bit better informed on how to deal with a tank-to-pipe blockage, if it should ever actually occur.

 

So, let the finger-pointing and incredulous head-shaking begin...

 

Lol funnily enough the moment you said spluttering taps I thought run out of water :-)

[Barry]

Having greatfully received all your helpful comments, I have a confession to make. Having spent an evening and a morning trying out all suggestions, and getting to know my Flojet more intimately than I'd expected to so soon, I've discovered the cause of the problem. The tank was practically empty. In my defence I did check this three times, but it seems that I was overestimating both the size of the tank and the strength of our water supply. I've been careful not to ever fill it to the brim as there's a suspected leak from the top of the filler pipe; apparently I was being a little over-cautious.

 

Sorry for wasting your time but on the bright side, this could be a valuable lesson for anyone encountering problems - check the obvious, then check it again, then check it three more times. And, of course, we're all a bit better informed on how to deal with a tank-to-pipe blockage, if it should ever actually occur.

 

So, let the finger-pointing and incredulous head-shaking begin...

 

fair play to your 'my hands are up it was me!

[bigcol]

LOL

 

At least you know the boundaries and your water pump inside out now!!

 

Good advice posted, and yes Ive blown up pipes, next time though I try reversing the pump.

 

sounds easier.

 

I also can dismantle a flo jet pump and gulper pump in record time!!! lol

 

pratice makes perfect

Edited September 12, 2012 by bigcol

[bizzard]

Having greatfully received all your helpful comments, I have a confession to make. Having spent an evening and a morning trying out all suggestions, and getting to know my Flojet more intimately than I'd expected to so soon, I've discovered the cause of the problem. The tank was practically empty. In my defence I did check this three times, but it seems that I was overestimating both the size of the tank and the strength of our water supply. I've been careful not to ever fill it to the brim as there's a suspected leak from the top of the filler pipe; apparently I was being a little over-cautious.

 

Sorry for wasting your time but on the bright side, this could be a valuable lesson for anyone encountering problems - check the obvious, then check it again, then check it three more times. And, of course, we're all a bit better informed on how to deal with a tank-to-pipe blockage, if it should ever actually occur.

 

So, let the finger-pointing and incredulous head-shaking begin...

A wheeeeeeeze. If you suspect a leak near the top of the tank, Make a floating gauge by Araldite-ing a largish pike fishing float to a longish lightweight stick, a float that will pass through your filler opening. Pop this float first into your water tank alongside the hosepipe when filling up and watch the stick rise up. When you know the tanks limit before it leaks mark the stick with a red painted band at filler level and say orange then green bands above that as pre-warnings.

Then in future you'll know when to stop before the leak starts. But you must keep an eye on it and fiddle with the stick now and then in case it sticks, cos if you don't and it sticks it might overflow and you will say ''fiddle sticks''.

 

A deluxe version with a dismountable short thin smooth bore tube for the stick to slide up and down in, with a clip at the top to bridge the filler aperture so it doesn't fall in.

Edited September 12, 2012 by bizzard