Graining boatmans cabin

[Iceman]

I'm about to start graining my back cabin. Any advice please on which undercoat and scumble to use and where to obtain it.

Thanks

[micky44]

we once did an old dray, we got the kit from wickes, we took the dray to appleby fair and every one asked who did the scrumble work!!

Edited March 25, 2012 by micky44

[Bobbybass]

I use some ordinary light yellow gloss...and coat the whole area and wait for it to dry.

I mark out the ends of imaginary timber using a black felt marker pen.

Once dry...I just brush on some water based mahogany varnish...

I use an ordinary hair comb and 'stroke' it to give grain....up to the felt pen marks...stroking in the direction that natural wood would go....stopping at the felt pen.

I wait a while for it to dry...and then brush some more varnish and repeat. I build up until I get the desired effect....and darkness.

I think I do 3 or 4 times until I have the depth that I like...

You could practice on some old board...it takes a little practice.

[David Schweizer]

I use light yellow satin finish oil based paint, and Ratcliffe's light oak scumble thinned by 25%, brushed on and grained using traditional steel combs. When dry overcoated with two coats of Blackfriars Yacht Varnish.

 

Edited to add:- I suspect that Dave Moore will be on soon to tell us how to do it properly.

Edited March 25, 2012 by David Schweizer

[Hairy-Neil]

Is Ratcliffe's scumble back on the market again? I seem to remember it being withdrawn for reformulation...

[David Schweizer]

Is Ratcliffe's scumble back on the market again? I seem to remember it being withdrawn for reformulation...

It was off the market for a while, but it is back, although the paint stockists I use no longer have it on their shelves as they found an alternative during the absence of Ratcliffe's.

 

the re-formullated scumble is in a slightl;y different tin :- http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/r/RATOS/

[dave moore]

Hi

 

The shade of undercoat determines the depth of the finished job. In the old days, Ratcliffes, who made both scumble and undercoat, recommended Chrome Buff No. 2 as their base colour. This was always a bit pale for my taste and my preferred base was Permoglaze BP21 undercoat, almost chrome yellow in colour. Light oak scumble oil was the standard, altho maple gave a warm tone too.

 

Water based scumble is still available ( the oil based stuff fell foul of the VOC regulations ) tho I've no experience of the stuff, I still use the oil based scumble which I've squirreled away. Other necessary tools are spring steel graining combs, available from signwriters' suppliers such as Wrights of Lymm or Habberley Meadows of Chelmsley Wood, Birmingham and perhaps a flogging brush, a long bristled hog hair tool which produces a pleasant flecked appearance if thrashed into wet scumble. A knotting rubber is a useful tool too, but I've seen so many amateur efforts where they are over used that I hesitate to suggest purchase!

 

I would suggest that you prepare some sample boards with a few different undercoat colours and then apply some scumble to choose your preferred tone prior to doing the cabin. Once dry, varnish with one or two coats of Craftmaster Clear varnish. As always, I'm happy to talk about the process, I only charge for diong it!! PM me if I can help further and I'll forward contact info.

 

Suppliers.....Midland Chandlers stock the water based scumble, any decent decorators merchant will mix undercoats for you.

 

Good luck!

 

Dave

[Iceman]

Hi

 

The shade of undercoat determines the depth of the finished job. In the old days, Ratcliffes, who made both scumble and undercoat, recommended Chrome Buff No. 2 as their base colour. This was always a bit pale for my taste and my preferred base was Permoglaze BP21 undercoat, almost chrome yellow in colour. Light oak scumble oil was the standard, altho maple gave a warm tone too.

 

Water based scumble is still available ( the oil based stuff fell foul of the VOC regulations ) tho I've no experience of the stuff, I still use the oil based scumble which I've squirreled away. Other necessary tools are spring steel graining combs, available from signwriters' suppliers such as Wrights of Lymm or Habberley Meadows of Chelmsley Wood, Birmingham and perhaps a flogging brush, a long bristled hog hair tool which produces a pleasant flecked appearance if thrashed into wet scumble. A knotting rubber is a useful tool too, but I've seen so many amateur efforts where they are over used that I hesitate to suggest purchase!

 

I would suggest that you prepare some sample boards with a few different undercoat colours and then apply some scumble to choose your preferred tone prior to doing the cabin. Once dry, varnish with one or two coats of Craftmaster Clear varnish. As always, I'm happy to talk about the process, I only charge for diong it!! PM me if I can help further and I'll forward contact info.

 

Suppliers.....Midland Chandlers stock the water based scumble, any decent decorators merchant will mix undercoats for you.

 

Good luck!

 

Dave

Thanks for that Dave. I appreciate your advice.

Regards

Kev

[Chris Pink]

It was off the market for a while, but it is back, although the paint stockists I use no longer have it on their shelves as they found an alternative during the absence of Ratcliffe's.

 

the re-formullated scumble is in a slightl;y different tin :- http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/r/RATOS/

 

is the substitute oil based? if so what is it and where?

 

does anyone have any experience of using the water based scumble?

[David Schweizer]

Hi

 

The shade of undercoat determines the depth of the finished job. In the old days, Ratcliffes, who made both scumble and undercoat, recommended Chrome Buff No. 2 as their base colour. This was always a bit pale for my taste and my preferred base was Permoglaze BP21 undercoat, almost chrome yellow in colour. Light oak scumble oil was the standard, altho maple gave a warm tone too.

 

Water based scumble is still available ( the oil based stuff fell foul of the VOC regulations ) tho I've no experience of the stuff, I still use the oil based scumble which I've squirreled away. Other necessary tools are spring steel graining combs, available from signwriters' suppliers such as Wrights of Lymm or Habberley Meadows of Chelmsley Wood, Birmingham and perhaps a flogging brush, a long bristled hog hair tool which produces a pleasant flecked appearance if thrashed into wet scumble. A knotting rubber is a useful tool too, but I've seen so many amateur efforts where they are over used that I hesitate to suggest purchase!

 

I would suggest that you prepare some sample boards with a few different undercoat colours and then apply some scumble to choose your preferred tone prior to doing the cabin. Once dry, varnish with one or two coats of Craftmaster Clear varnish. As always, I'm happy to talk about the process, I only charge for diong it!! PM me if I can help further and I'll forward contact info.

 

Suppliers.....Midland Chandlers stock the water based scumble, any decent decorators merchant will mix undercoats for you.

 

Good luck!

 

Dave

I have experimented with Craftmaster clear, but still prefer to use Yacht Varnish which is what Ron Hough recommended to me many years ago. Craftmaster Clear is good stuff and it works very well, however, I prefer the richness of colour that Yacht Varnish imparts to the graining. You will see my efforts later this year Dave, (including Knotting!) when you sign write Helvetia after she has been re-painted by John Sanderson.

 

P.S. I am also still using the old Oil based Scumble, so cannot comment on the new water based version.

Edited March 26, 2012 by David Schweizer

[Chalky]

I bought a Ronseal kit of ebay (wait for cries of horror)which I've used on the engine room of my modern trad. The base coat and glaze were both water based, the base coat being not much more than emulsion. The kit came with a couple of rubber combs and gives a reasonable impression of pine. Looks good with a coat of varnish over it.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Chalky

[matty40s]

I bought a Ronseal kit of ebay (wait for cries of horror)which I've used on the engine of my modern trad. The base coat and glaze were both water based, the base coat being not much more than emulsion. The kit came with a couple of rubber combs and gives a reasonable impression of pine. Looks good with a coat of varnish over it.

 

So you have an engine that looks like it's made out of wood????

[Chalky]

So you have an engine that looks like it's made out of wood????

 

Deliberate typo to see if you're all awake after the clocks changed! Should of course read "engine room"

[Higgs]

Hasn't been mentioned, but lay off your background base colour in the direction you're planning to grain - otherwise, you create a bamboo effect.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Higgs

[andywatson]

I have heard reports that the water based product dries too quickly and this comment is even borne out by some suppliers. See para 3 of the link below:

 

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/r/RATOS/

 

I have had some success finding the proper traditional oil based scumble in independent decorators merchants and hardware shops so the OP might try that tactic.

 

Otherwise I would try using Ratcliffe's oil scumble glaze (effectively untinted scumble) which is still available and tinting it as required using Polyvine or Ratcliffe's Kolorit tints, or good quality artists oil paint.

The clear glaze can also be used for marbling which I hope to experiment with shortly.

If you get stuck I can help you out for some.

 

The DVD by Tony Lewerey on Traditional Boat Decoration from Lawrence Hogg productions is very instructive.

Edited March 26, 2012 by andywatson

[Fred_Smith]

One of the many shades is "Cream 154 KX neutral base undercoat". Oil based, available from car paint suppliers