Pigeon Boxes

[Callum]

Title and description says it all. Just curious.

[John Orentas]

Title and description says it all. Just curious.

 

 

I think they are called Pigeon Boxes simply because of the strong resemblance to a dovecote or pigeon loft with the little individual apertures for our feathered friends. A friend of mine had a large size one specially built for his Yorkshire Terrier when the boat was on the move, the dog loved his little house and it was often a problem to persuade him to come out.

 

The problem was he was regularly harangued by well meaning though uninformed passers by who thought keeping the dog in a box was unkind and they would threaten to call the RSPCA.

Edited May 15, 2006 by John Orentas

[DHutch]

Your still better off with a nice hatch imo.

- More light though them, and a better seal around it too.

 

They where inveted when any glass at all was seen as huge breakthough. And fair play to them, but that was years ago, glass is now relatively inexpesive...

[aread2]

Does anybody know which is better: Pigeon box/Dog box or houdini hatch? I understand hatches are a bit prone to condensation and the last thing I want is a chronic drip above the bed.

[bottle]

Does anybody know which is better: Pigeon box/Dog box or houdini hatch? I understand hatches are a bit prone to condensation and the last thing I want is a chronic drip above the bed.

 

Houdini, let in more light less prone to leak but still have the condensation problem.

 

For the reason of condensation will not be having one over the bed.

[dor]

I always thought that pidgeon boxes were more for ventilation that letting in light. Some don't even have glass in them.

 

I would think a houdini hatch is essential in those boats that only have portholes on the side.

[Callum]

I always thought that pidgeon boxes were more for ventilation that letting in light. Some don't even have glass in them.

 

I would think a houdini hatch is essential in those boats that only have portholes on the side.

 

Well, in my opinion (and as such is neither right nor wrong) Houdini hatches are the work of the Devil himself - drip all ever the place and look naff to the bargain.

 

Given decent sized ports (18") and one or two strategically placed side hatches no roof apertures of either description are strictly necessary. In my opinion, of course. (Guess what our boat is having........ )

 

Jon, all the pigeon/dove cots in our neck of the woods tend to be cylindrical or inverted cones on the top of poles - nothing like a boat's pigeon box. Are you referring to a carrying box or the like?

[DHutch]

I like our houdini hatches.

- They let loads of light in, can be totaly closed. Never had a propbelm with condestaion.

- The on in the galley leaks a little tiny bit, but thats between the boat and the hatch, so simply down to bad instalaion.

- I also think they look quite nice, there quite solidly made, from solid brass, which is now a nice dull black/grey.

 

Compaired to the one remaining pieion box, which lets in hardly any light, doesnt shut quite fully, let in the midges every time there about, and looks a little silly and out of place on the roofline.

 

 

Daniel

[rallyfan]

Given decent sized ports (18")

 

Now I think that they look really naff, but, as they say "beauty is in the eye......."

 

We have 2 houdinis and one is over the bed with no probs. In the winter, at night, when it is not open, we have a large foam filled bung that pushes into it. Sorted!!

[John Orentas]

There is a lot to be said for pigeon boxes, they can be made at such an angle that any condensation will run down them and if properly designed it will leak out onto the roof rather than dripping into the boat, though mine is in the engine room so would not matter too much.

 

Also I designed it to be part of the required high level ventilation, stops are built in to ensure that there is a minimum 10mm gap between it and the roof surface when closed, it can also be raised fully 75mm in hot weather.

[NB Willawaw]

I seem to recall racing pigeons being released from boxes that look like narrowboat pigeon boxes - I don't know whether there is really any connection or whether its the medication.

 

Willawaw has both. The problem with hatches is the daylight that streams through them at dawn o'clock.

The houdini type hatches have little curtains that close horizontally below them - they also stop people peering through when you go under bridges etc.

 

I think its a preference thing -

personally, I quite like pigeon boxes - they are quite stylish when built properly and can be left slightly open for ventilation without leaking rainwater.

Hatches are good for escaping from the boat but depending on the make dont like staying wide open and can slam down (my experience !).

 

Mark

[David Schweizer]

I always thought that pidgeon boxes were more for ventilation that letting in light. Some don't even have glass in them.

You are correct, Pigeon Boxes were originally meant to cover the ventilation hole in the engine room roof. Despite their popularity today, very few Working Boats actually had them, and those that did were usually the private property of the boat captain who would take it with him when he changed boats. The standard issue for company boats was a flat board with a single porthole in the centre and short pillars at the corners to provide the ventilatiion gap. To increaase ventilation a block of wood was wedged between the underside and the cabin roof, tilting the board upwards.

Edited May 20, 2006 by David Schweizer

[Cafnod]

Yeah the original pigeon boxes were loose I believe Davd and you could just lift them off. I read somewhere that some modern boats are still built with loose ones and they weld bars across the inside of the reveal to stop people lifting the boxes off and climbing in.

[David Schweizer]

Yeah the original pigeon boxes were loose I believe Davd and you could just lift them off. I read somewhere that some modern boats are still built with loose ones and they weld bars across the inside of the reveal to stop people lifting the boxes off and climbing in.

 

The Pigeon Box on my boat was loose, until some idiot friend took it off and started waving it about in the air. After that I drilled and tapped four small holes in the sides, so that it can br screwed down

[DHutch]

Ours is currenlty "loose"

 

It should have four screws holding it down, but when the cabin was repainted they put it back 180degrees out, and then whacked it with a large lump of wood.

- The holes dont line up, but no ones ever been able to get it off to correct it!

 

 

Daniel

[musicman]

Fascinating thread.

So if I were looking to add a pidgeon box over my engine room - where would I get one from?

Any ideas much appreciated.

 

Philip

[DHutch]

A lot of large chardelers have "off the peg" ones for sale, although our two (one now replaced with hatch) where made up by the hull fabricators.

- There really very simple to make, you just have make a bit of afford to get the fits good or else it leaks/jams/etc.

 

photo of hatch photo of pigion box (just about)

 

 

Daniel

[Carrie]

The boat I'm buying has a pigeon-box I will want to remove, as it will get in the way of my plans to place my solar-heated water system. If you still want one in a couple of months time, Philip, let me know.

[musicman]

The boat I'm buying has a pigeon-box I will want to remove, as it will get in the way of my plans to place my solar-heated water system. If you still want one in a couple of months time, Philip, let me know.

 

Carrie you're a star! Post a picture to me. I'm in no real hurry - but it would be good to fit before the end of the Summer.

Philip

[John Orentas]

When travelling around you see many wooden pigeon boxes that have been made by the owner, although they look ok initially, timber never works well when fitted to a steel cabin.

 

Another way to do it is using brass sheet, much easier than it sounds make to make all the components, cutting and folding is very simple, then rivet them all together. Gives a very authentic look and lasts for ever.

[David Schweizer]

When travelling around you see many wooden pigeon boxes that have been made by the owner, although they look ok initially, timber never works well when fitted to a steel cabin.

That may be so John, but until the advent of modern receational Narrowboats, most pigeon boxes were made from timber, irrespective of whether the cabin was steel or wooden. So if you want to be traditional, timber is the correct material, but it does need to be re-painted almost every year to remain presentable.

 

Having said that the one on my boat is made of Steel (bought from Midland Chandlers).

Edited May 22, 2006 by David Schweizer

[John Orentas]

That may be so John, but until the advent of modern receational Narrowboats, most pigeon boxes were made from timber, irrespective of whether the cabin was steel or wooden. So if you want to be traditional, timber is the correct material, but it does need to be re-painted almost every year to remain presentable.

 

Having said that the one on my boat is made of Steel (bought from Midland Chandlers).

 

 

Not sure how far I would want to pursue the 'traditional' thing on my boat I could find myself with a 'toilet bucket' in engine room and burning all kinds of noxious stuff in my stove to try and kill off my body lice.

 

What I meant by 'Gives a very authentic look' is that it simply looks in keeping with the original utilitarian nature of narrowboats, domed head rivets always look right to me. Not sure if you can generalise too much about timber cabins and their accessories, one of my favourite boats JOEL is built entirely of wrought iron riveted plate and that includes the cabin.