Replacing windows

[allybsc]

Hello all,

Does anyone know if it is possible to take out hopper windows, weld in some plate to block up the hole and replace with portholes? I've seen a half decent boat, has everyting I need internally (with a bit of decorating and fiddling about) but it has 4 caravan windows which I'm not keen on.

 

I got all excited this morning when one of the boats that I missed came back on apolloduck, rang the chap woke him up and found out it was a mistake...oh bugger!!!!

 

Ta again,

Regards,

Ally p (who is determined to get a boat asap)

[alan_fincher]

Hello all,

Does anyone know if it is possible to take out hopper windows, weld in some plate to block up the hole and replace with portholes? I've seen a half decent boat, has everyting I need internally (with a bit of decorating and fiddling about) but it has 4 caravan windows which I'm not keen on.

 

I got all excited this morning when one of the boats that I missed came back on apolloduck, rang the chap woke him up and found out it was a mistake...oh bugger!!!!

 

Ta again,

Regards,

Ally p (who is determined to get a boat asap)

Simple answer is "yes".

 

But on boats where I've seen this done, the fact that it has been done is usually fairly obvious, (you can see evidence of the welds, and even if well ground down, the side isn't fully flat).

 

But then, of course, I've no way of knowing if other port-holed boats I'm looking at, where no weld is visible, in fact used to have windows, and it's just that a very much tidier job has been done of filling them up

[allybsc]

Simple answer is "yes".

 

But on boats where I've seen this done, the fact that it has been done is usually fairly obvious, (you can see evidence of the welds, and even if well ground down, the side isn't fully flat).

 

But then, of course, I've no way of knowing if other port-holed boats I'm looking at, where no weld is visible, in fact used to have windows, and it's just that a very much tidier job has been done of filling them up

 

I'm encouraged, I thought that the weld lines could be disguised with some nicely painted coach lines.

I understand why people like the bigger windows, let in the light and all, but as I can't find or afford a vintage boat so I'm going to try to reproduce one as best I can, probably end up looking like the inside of a junk shop...much like my house really!!! The rest of the boat has portholes.

Regards,

ally p.

[bottle]

Hi Ally

 

As Alan says the simple answer is yes but (and there always is) do not forget that it is not only the outside metalwork involved, there is all the internal woodwork as well.

 

Try to get an idea of the cost first, it will involve removing existing internals, welding in new panels and then refitting/renewing internals.

 

Yes it can be done.

[allybsc]

Hi Ally

 

As Alan says the simple answer is yes but (and there always is) do not forget that it is not only the outside metalwork involved, there is all the internal woodwork as well.

 

Try to get an idea of the cost first, it will involve removing existing internals, welding in new panels and then refitting/renewing internals.

 

Yes it can be done.

 

I thought that simple wood faced play panels round the internal portholes with a nice bit of beading would be OK, then I can paint castles round them or summat suitable

[DHutch]

Any think is possable.

 

As has been said, i think you would be lucky to get a pannel welded in without a fair bit of destorotion. Have a look at the roof joins on some of the boats you see around. Certainly ours are a bit rough!!

- And you would have to do a lot of re-fitting around the area.

 

Another way of doing it to pretend it was ment to be like that. Recess the steel pannel back 3/4" and then put the port in the middle of that...

- I have seen a boat that looked like this, and i can only assume it was becuase i orrgianaly had windows.

- They had a done an ok job of the welding, and then scubbled the "frame" like is done on some rear sections of boats.

- I have to admit tho, i though it was a bit naff looking!!

 

Your also right, you could do it with ply pannels, and that i have deffonatly seen done. But never well.

- All the ones ive seen the ply was falling apart, and the steel rusting around edge.

- Although, if you put your mind to it, im sure with suitable preperation, and a suitable finsh on the ply it could work.

 

Also, im not quite what your aiminf for with the whole "vintage boat" thing.

- The working boats didnt have cabins at all when they where origanlly built.

- And imo, you can have just a good "trad-style" boat with windows has with porthole. Infact, i think boats with just rows of portholes down the side look really rather silly. Although it is becoming fasionable now for some reason.

 

 

 

Daniel

[allybsc]

Any think is possable.

 

As has been said, i think you would be lucky to get a pannel welded in without a fair bit of destorotion. Have a look at the roof joins on some of the boats you see around. Certainly ours are a bit rough!!

- And you would have to do a lot of re-fitting around the area.

 

Another way of doing it to pretend it was ment to be like that. Recess the steel pannel back 3/4" and then put the port in the middle of that...

- I have seen a boat that looked like this, and i can only assume it was becuase i orrgianaly had windows.

- They had a done an ok job of the welding, and then scubbled the "frame" like is done on some rear sections of boats.

- I have to admit tho, i though it was a bit naff looking!!

 

Your also right, you could do it with ply pannels, and that i have deffonatly seen done. But never well.

- All the ones ive seen the ply was falling apart, and the steel rusting around edge.

- Although, if you put your mind to it, im sure with suitable preperation, and a suitable finsh on the ply it could work.

 

Also, im not quite what your aiminf for with the whole "vintage boat" thing.

- The working boats didnt have cabins at all when they where origanlly built.

- And imo, you can have just a good "trad-style" boat with windows has with porthole. Infact, i think boats with just rows of portholes down the side look really rather silly. Although it is becoming fasionable now for some reason.

Daniel

 

Hi Daniel,

I just don't like the whole caravan window thing, I don't find them particularly attractive. I just like old fashioned looking. I meant the ply panels on the inside, I agree it would be awful on the outside, spoil the whole boat. The boat I'm going to see on saturday (if it is still there) is nice enough even with the bigger windows, I bet if I bought it and didn't change them straight away I'd just get used to them and never get round to it!!!

Regards,

Ally p.

[Alastair]

I'm also looking for a new window, to replace one that is broken.

 

The trouble is, the sides of my narrowboat are curved from top to bottom. Caldwells say that their windows won't bend to take up the curve, and I'd end up with gaps at the top or bottom. From experience, filling these sort of gaps with silicone never works very well.

 

Has anyone else had this problem, and what solutions did they come up with?

[John Orentas]

I'm also looking for a new window, to replace one that is broken.

 

The trouble is, the sides of my narrowboat are curved from top to bottom. Caldwells say that their windows won't bend to take up the curve, and I'd end up with gaps at the top or bottom. From experience, filling these sort of gaps with silicone never works very well.

 

Has anyone else had this problem, and what solutions did they come up with?

 

 

Hi Alastair.

 

I think you must have spoken to the wrong chap at Caldwell's, boat windows will bend and form to the side of a wavy cabin side to and almost impossible degree, don't agree about the silicone either if you get the right stuff (not bath sealant) it will work every time.

 

Remember you can simply replace the glass without the frame but it must be toughened, that's what makes it flexible.

 

Bear in mind too that there are lots of suppliers of aluminium windows, often better quality than the narrowboat ones, they make to your dimensions and your boat will look a bit different.

[stuart]

...boat windows will bend and form to the side of a wavy cabin side to and almost impossible degree, don't agree about the silicone either if you get the right stuff (not bath sealant) it will work every time.

 

If the windows are anodised though, they may covering my graze/crack.

[John Orentas]

For 'filling in' windows, Daniels comments are the best way to go, make a feature of it. I have seen it done on a few boats turn the window aperture into a recess and fit a porthole in the middle, looks like it was made that way. Filling and flushing is almost impossible to do without it standing out like a sore thumb.

[Alastair]

Hi Alastair.

 

I think you must have spoken to the wrong chap at Caldwell's, boat windows will bend and form to the side of a wavy cabin side to and almost impossible degree, don't agree about the silicone either if you get the right stuff (not bath sealant) it will work every time.

 

Remember you can simply replace the glass without the frame but it must be toughened, that's what makes it flexible.

 

Bear in mind too that there are lots of suppliers of aluminium windows, often better quality than the narrowboat ones, they make to your dimensions and your boat will look a bit different.

 

I will phone Caldwells again today, see if I get someone more knowledgeable.

 

The curve is fairly tight - about 20mm over 600mm height. I've found silicone ok when it can be inserted then some mechanical pressure applied. Otherwise, after a brief period, it seems to fail. There is also the problem of painting it. Polysulphide seems better in that respect, but no better at sealing permanently. Maybe I'm just not cleaning the surfaces enough before application.

[alan_fincher]

I will phone Caldwells again today, see if I get someone more knowledgeable.

 

The curve is fairly tight - about 20mm over 600mm height. I've found silicone ok when it can be inserted then some mechanical pressure applied. Otherwise, after a brief period, it seems to fail. There is also the problem of painting it. Polysulphide seems better in that respect, but no better at sealing permanently. Maybe I'm just not cleaning the surfaces enough before application.

As we have had to deal with windows where the seal between frame and cabinside has failed, I've agonised with a similar question, and am still not convinced I know what's best.....

 

As I've recently proved, our cabinsides are not entirely flat, and for a window just resealed, there is quite a bit of curvature to cope with on the vertical sides of the window, (but which does seem happy enough to flex to the right shape.....).

 

I a previous series of postings on this, inevitably lots of people said silicone was the thing to use, and nearly as many said it was not. (Don't you love it when that happens ).

 

My local engineer says that however well done, silicone always fails eventually, and has had to deal with many where the silicone is a perfect gasket still on one surface, but in no way at all sealed to the other.

 

But, to balance that, our boat is 11 years old, and in most places not particularly well applied silicone is still working fine, so far as I can tell.

 

Anyway, we have been urged instead to use stuff called "Glasticord". This is a kind of mastic putty like stuff, on a roll, separated by peel off paper layer. You lay it on, pull the window down on it's screws, then trim off the excess that has been expelled. (Something called Arboseal tape, that Gary Peacock mentioned, may be similar, but I've not seen a sample, so can't say with certainty).

 

But Glasticord is not something designed to harden fully, so has some stretch and give in it to cope with any future movement. Obviously, therefore, it's not overpaintable, so is simply used on top of an already fully painted cabinside, and the exposed edge left as is.

 

I have to say the jury is still out on the stuff for me, and, I guess until it has also lasted, (or not lasted!), 10 years, I've no way of knowing if it's a better option than silicone, (or polysusphide, or whatever).

 

If anyone in the trade can say for definite what's used on new quality boats, I'd be interested to hear.....

 

Alan

[John Orentas]

Quote:

"If anyone in the trade can say for definite what's used on new quality boats, I'd be interested to hear....."

 

I am certainly not implying any criticism of anyone here but in the light of so many posts we have about questionable builders I am always a little surprised that people still retain so much faith in even the 'quality' builders.

 

I posted a few weeks ago about a 'Quality' boat I looked at, the windows were held in by cadmium plated mild steel screws, this is about the most conspicuous bit of a boat you could think of, what are they doing in the bits you can't see. Yes they save a few pence each compared to stainless or brass screws and yes they will not rust for perhaps a year, the cheque will have cleared by then. Any builder who could do that (and that was a 70+ grand boat from a well known builder) does not deserve any respect in my book.

[DHutch]

I just don't like the whole caravan window thing, I don't find them particularly attractive. I just like old fashioned looking.

Have you had a look at windows on other narrowboats, if its just that the current ones are of a very old style and worn out, maybe replacing them with new/newer windows?

[allybsc]

Have you had a look at windows on other narrowboats, if its just that the current ones are of a very old style and worn out, maybe replacing them with new/newer windows?

 

I'll do that, thanks, good idea.

[Jon]

Moving to boat building & maintenance...

 

Jon