Elected boaters - If not the usual suspects then who...

[cotswoldsman]

Apologies for my impertinence but it seems Mr Ellison's comments indicate he has little or no experience of the psychology of how large groups work. I would also ask out of interest what Mr Fincher's experience of such groups is. 6 or 7 people representing boaters and the boating industry on Council do not a majority make; they will not be in a position to manipulate people or organisations and must not expect to put boaters' aspirations above anyone elses. What our elected members must do is seek to build partnerships with other Council members that will be beneficial to all. That is a two way process which requires listening, learning to understand and supporting the needs and aspirations of others. Partnerships of equals with respect for all, enabling all to achieve, resolving conflicts in a positive manner. I do however agree that we need smart, capable people who are up to the job. These qualities are more important than whether they are residential boaters, long distanec travellers or occasional cruisers. In what I have read of what he has written Mr Fincher suggests he has some of these abilities but my first vote will be for Ivor Caplan who I know will do a good job. Yes he is an IWA member but that is irrevelant as he is his own man and will work for the benefit of all boaters as he is already doing on the West Midlands Local Partnership.

 

I have no problem with Ivor Caplan and yes he does have a good record but I would not vote for him as I still do not think as a high profile member of IWA he would be that independent.

[alan_fincher]

Before we can vote for anyone we really need more information on what is expected of our representatives

How much time would they be expected to commit to it.?

How expensive is it going to be, to be on the committee?

Much as it seems Alan is prepared to volunteer for this position, doe's he have the time or finances to commit to it ?------- but does any one ?

We need more information.

 

Alex

A bit of digging has already revealed more on this than was immediately obvious.

 

From This document

 

Q. HOW OFTEN DOES COUNCIL MEET?

A. Two times a year but there may be other Committee work.

 

Q. WHERE WILL COUNCIL MEET?

A. Meetings will be located at major centres for ease of rail travel. These may include:

Leeds, Manchester, Birmingham, London, but not exclusively.

 

Q. WHAT WILL BE THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF A COUNCIL MEMBER? HOW MUCH WORK WILL IT INVOLVE?

A. Council is the guardian of the long-term values and spirit of the Trust. It will have the role of appointing (or rejecting) Trustees proposed to them by the Appointments Committee (a joint committee of the Council and the Trustees) and will have the power to dismiss Trustees. While Trustees are responsible for determining policy and strategy, Council will have an important role in helping to shape policy, raising and debating issues, providing guidance, perspective and be a sounding board for Trustees.

You must be prepared to read papers in advance of meetings, to think about their content as well as keep in touch generally with developments and issues arising within the world of waterways. You may want to spend some time between meetings gathering the views of people within your constituency to form a representative view and raise any questions. The most effective Council members will therefore be well networked as well as able and willing to devote time and effort to become well informed and be ready to present arguments within Council and Committee meetings.

 

Q. IS THERE ANY PERSONAL LIABILITY ASSOCIATED WITH COUNCIL MEMBERSHIP?

A. As CRT is a ‘company limited by guarantee’ it does not have shareholders or any share capital. Instead the Council members are ‘members’ of the Trust for the purposes of company law and their liability is limited to paying a contribution not exceeding £10 towards the debts and liabilities of CRT in the unlikely event of CRT being wound-up. There is no other liability attached to the role of Council member as they are not in positions of executive authority and they do not have direct responsibility for the actions of the Trust.

 

Q. ARE EXPENSES PAYABLE?

A. Yes. Reasonable and agreed expenses for attendance at Council meetings and meetings of official Council committees will be reimbursed. Obviously we will ask all Council Members to minimise their expenditure, taking advantage of discounted rail travel wherever possible. Hotels and overnight accommodation will require prior clearance.

 

Q. WHAT IS THE TERM OF APPOINTMENT?

A. Council Members are elected for a term of 4 years.

 

If this is accurate, given that I am an "early retired" person, I should easily be able to commit to what is required, (even if it proved to be rather more than stated!).

[jam pudd]

Apologies for my impertinence but it seems Mr Ellison's comments indicate he has little or no experience of the psychology of how large groups work. I would also ask out of interest what Mr Fincher's experience of such groups is. 6 or 7 people representing boaters and the boating industry on Council do not a majority make; they will not be in a position to manipulate people or organisations and must not expect to put boaters' aspirations above anyone elses. What our elected members must do is seek to build partnerships with other Council members that will be beneficial to all. That is a two way process which requires listening, learning to understand and supporting the needs and aspirations of others. Partnerships of equals with respect for all, enabling all to achieve, resolving conflicts in a positive manner. I do however agree that we need smart, capable people who are up to the job. These qualities are more important than whether they are residential boaters, long distanec travellers or occasional cruisers. In what I have read of what he has written Mr Fincher suggests he has some of these abilities but my first vote will be for Ivor Caplan who I know will do a good job. Yes he is an IWA member but that is irrevelant as he is his own man and will work for the benefit of all boaters as he is already doing on the West Midlands Local Partnership.

 

My intention to spark some meaningful debate on this election is working!! Dealing with the above points quickly; I do speak from extensive experience of meetings as an operations director of a UK service company with 150 plus outlets; as owner founder of my own service company with 50 outlets and 10years on county and district councils and as a director on a local enterprise board.

I’m glad agreement is coming forth that we need smart capable people and that some responders agree that our boater reps will be better equipped if they have sound senior management backgrounds - capable of “assisting” the Trust’s management perform efficiently. Do I hear some of you say. “How the ‘eck will they do that”? Well, if we elect four very capable people who are really smart then they’ll figure out how best to act when they get there. If you put thirty five individuals into a group, set them a challenge then very soon leaders emerge and lesser characters follow. We’ve just got to make sure that the boater reps have all these qualities and quickly utilise leadership skills.

I foresee (BW) senior management, through their carefully chosen Trustees, serving up non-confrontational agendas and reports for the Council to chew over. Therefore, our boaters group will need to be pretty skilful, cutting to the chase quickly to ensure that the meetings don’t become talking shops. They must have the ability to persuasively shape the council in its early days. The council must become a real force to be reckoned with as an advisory body to the Trust. If not the whole exercise will be a huge disappointment to all who want the Trust to succeed. AND YES, for the benefit of cyclists, ramblers, birdwatchers,gongoozlers et al BUT for the boaters first and foremost!!

Bob Ellison

[14skipper]

some responders agree that our boater reps will be better equipped if they have sound senior management backgrounds

Bob Ellison

 

What a load of B*****KS.The board of BW is full of senior management and look at the S**T job they made of it !!! Talk about more jobs for the boys.

 

14Skipper

[fuzzyduck]

What a load of B*****KS.The board of BW is full of senior management and look at the S**T job they made of it !!! Talk about more jobs for the boys.

 

14Skipper

 

Yeah just what we need on council, powerpoint jockeys with delusions of adequacy.

 

Having met, and worked with the slime that tends to sit on boards, Id rather they all stayed away and give CaRT a chance to work.

Edited December 31, 2011 by fuzzyduck

[cotswoldsman]

Yeah just what we need on council, powerpoint jockeys with delusions of adequacy.

 

Having met, and worked with the slime that tends to sit on boards, Id rather they all stayed away and give CaRT a chance to work.

 

Have to agree 100% find jam pudd's post very patronising and very arrogant.

I do speak from extensive experience of meetings as an operations director of a UK service company with 150 plus outlets; as owner founder of my own service company with 50 outlets and 10years on county and district councils and as a director on a local enterprise board.

 

jam pudd is the above supposed to impress? does nothing for me and is completely meaningless.

[alan_fincher]

Your last paragraph shows complete ignorance. Continuously cruising over large distances didn't stop me being Chairman of Nabo for three years and on Council for many more. This involved more than two meetings a year.

It isn't difficult. Sue

Your usual gentle, diplomatic way of saying things, Sue. Did you talk to people the same way when actually doing that role ?

 

Even though you actually choose to quote immediately above the bit where I actually said....

 

I'm sure that isn't generally going to be a problem, but it needs to be borne in mind.

 

I do know, and talk to ,a lot of live-aboard boaters, and have had some tell me they wouldn't find it easy to take this on, hence my "it needs to be borne in mind".

 

i have said elsewhere that I think representation by continuous cruisers is important, but equally I would challenge the much put forward view that only the live-aboard boaters have the knowledge to do these roles.

 

Far more people own and use boats that don't live on them, than those who do, and I find the view that they should not have at least as much representation disturbing, (not that I'm suggesting you have said that yourself).

Edited December 31, 2011 by alan_fincher

[alan_fincher]

My intention to spark some meaningful debate on this election is working!!

Fair enough, but in a debate, if you say something, and someone takes the time to give a counter view, it would be helpful if you then responded to that.

 

For example you started this thread saying.....

 

 

It’s my hope that we elect strong independently minded individuals who “currently” cruise the network. They should be boaters who are on the water for most of the year. They should be out there with us, continually experiencing first hand the result of appalling maintenance and witnessing the only too evident waste of financial and manpower resources. For my part our council representatives don’t need to have spent a life time in their boats but they must have travelled the network extensively AND have been on the water for most of the past two or three years.

 

I responded to that with the following.....

 

It's a view, but how many boaters do you know who are actively boating large distances for "most of the year" ?

 

In my experience many live-aboards, and who certainly fully qualify as "continuous cruisers", do not necessarily move on that large a number of days, or huge distances.

 

What sort of number of days boated, (or miles covered, or locks worked - you choose the measure!) would qualify someone, in your view ?

 

I totally agree it needs to be committed boaters that actual do boat, (although others seem to think that the "living aboard" part is more important than the "miles covered" part, of course!).

 

For example I am standing, but am not a full time live-aboard boater.

 

I have boated on about 87 days this year, covered about 1,200 miles and over 900 locks.

 

Does that represent enough opportunity for me to experience the issues people face, maintenance or otherwise, in your view ?

 

What percentage of boaters do you consider to be "on the water" more than that, please ? (I'm taking "on the water" to mean you actually have to be travelling somewhere, to get this wider picture....)

 

However you have not responded to say whether I stand any chance of passing your test of "amount of time on the water", or "amount of miles covered".

 

I regularly see people posting stuff that implies the roles best go to live-aboards, but I am not convinced that the vast majority of live-aboards do any more boating than we do.

 

I'll repeat the challenge also, that far more boat owners being represented are not live-aboards than those who are, so why are only live-aboards qualified to serve ?

 

You have said both.......

 

I’ll kick off by saying that I believe a group of “committee junkies” carrying BW baggage wont achieve the improvements we need on our waterways. Equally I’d be very concerned if we end up electing any of the “barrack room” zealots who have been looking for BW management blood this past year or more.

 

and.......

 

My intention to spark some meaningful debate on this election is working!! Dealing with the above points quickly; I do speak from extensive experience of meetings as an operations director of a UK service company with 150 plus outlets; as owner founder of my own service company with 50 outlets and 10years on county and district councils and as a director on a local enterprise board.

 

so I am not particularly clear if you see those taking on the roles as having to have had extensive experience of meetings and committees and how they work at a whole number of levels in order to be in with a chance, or whether you actually feel that keen independent boaters not coming to it with too much previous baggage could actually be a good thing.

 

For example in my working life I was variously a manager and at other times more an independent consultant or technical specialist. In those kind of roles, I have obviously experienced "Death by PowerPoint" many times just like anybody else who has worked in anything similar, but have always had a hate of what I regularly saw as "management speak" or frankly just bullshit a lot of the time. If I ended up on CaRT council, I would of course bring experience to it based on my working life, but I would like to think that would be endeavouring to act as negotiator to cut through any daft ideas, and try and broker the best solutions to anything on which I am allowed an input.

 

I suggest this is a situation where it's not necessary to come from a background where you spent large amounts of your time in meetings, committees, conferences, etc., but at least having reasonable experience in such matters could be highly useful when trying to broker the best situation for the boater community.

[Rebotco]

However you have not responded to say whether I stand any chance of passing your test of "amount of time on the water", or "amount of miles covered".

 

I regularly see people posting stuff that implies the roles best go to live-aboards, but I am not convinced that the vast majority of live-aboards do any more boating than we do.

 

I'll repeat the challenge also, that far more boat owners being represented are not live-aboards than those who are, so why are only live-aboards qualified to serve ?

 

 

In my limited experience, some liveaboards also cruise, but most seem to be almost permanently moored, especially on the K &A. These permanent moorers will have completely different needs to the vast majority who move around the system. I certainly do not think they would promote my interests as a leisure boater. My priorities for CaRT would be Navigation, Maintenance and Costs, and I suspect most boaters feel much the same.

 

Brian

[fuzzyduck]

My priorities for CaRT would be Navigation, Maintenance and Costs, and I suspect most boaters feel much the same

 

Mine too, have a greenie

[novascotianboy]

The people who will get my vote are the ones who I think will be committed to advocating the concerns of boaters in a constructive, coherent, and effective manner. I don't want to see 4 people from different boating communities elected who then argue among themselves! I'd far prefer a group of people who can work together to advocate for boaters. Given that we only elect 4 out of 35 seats (I know, it depends how you count, but I say 4!) we need people who will be committed to working together, not just "defending their own patch".

[jenlyn]

My intention to spark some meaningful debate on this election is working!! Dealing with the above points quickly; I do speak from extensive experience of meetings as an operations director of a UK service company with 150 plus outlets; as owner founder of my own service company with 50 outlets and 10years on county and district councils and as a director on a local enterprise board.

I’m glad agreement is coming forth that we need smart capable people and that some responders agree that our boater reps will be better equipped if they have sound senior management backgrounds - capable of “assisting” the Trust’s management perform efficiently. Do I hear some of you say. “How the ‘eck will they do that”? Well, if we elect four very capable people who are really smart then they’ll figure out how best to act when they get there. If you put thirty five individuals into a group, set them a challenge then very soon leaders emerge and lesser characters follow. We’ve just got to make sure that the boater reps have all these qualities and quickly utilise leadership skills.

I foresee (BW) senior management, through their carefully chosen Trustees, serving up non-confrontational agendas and reports for the Council to chew over. Therefore, our boaters group will need to be pretty skilful, cutting to the chase quickly to ensure that the meetings don’t become talking shops. They must have the ability to persuasively shape the council in its early days. The council must become a real force to be reckoned with as an advisory body to the Trust. If not the whole exercise will be a huge disappointment to all who want the Trust to succeed. AND YES, for the benefit of cyclists, ramblers, birdwatchers,gongoozlers et al BUT for the boaters first and foremost!!

Bob Ellison

I read the first couple of sentences,I don't like you already!

 

Apologies for my impertinence but it seems Mr Ellison's comments indicate he has little or no experience of the psychology of how large groups work. I would also ask out of interest what Mr Fincher's experience of such groups is. 6 or 7 people representing boaters and the boating industry on Council do not a majority make; they will not be in a position to manipulate people or organisations and must not expect to put boaters' aspirations above anyone elses. What our elected members must do is seek to build partnerships with other Council members that will be beneficial to all. That is a two way process which requires listening, learning to understand and supporting the needs and aspirations of others. Partnerships of equals with respect for all, enabling all to achieve, resolving conflicts in a positive manner. I do however agree that we need smart, capable people who are up to the job. These qualities are more important than whether they are residential boaters, long distanec travellers or occasional cruisers. In what I have read of what he has written Mr Fincher suggests he has some of these abilities but my first vote will be for Ivor Caplan who I know will do a good job. Yes he is an IWA member but that is irrevelant as he is his own man and will work for the benefit of all boaters as he is already doing on the West Midlands Local Partnership.

I hope he does not get in, no time for the IWA

[Higgs]

In the back of the minds of all members of the Private Boaters Constituency group should be the thought that we pay 20% towards funding. Money is always a big issue. While the group will not be working in a vacuum, 20% is actually real and assured. The boaters might justifiably argue that this money ought to be used in a way that reflects this contribution, in favour of boaters needs.

 

Because the group will not be functioning in a vacuum this position is not completely workable. We need more money for maintenance and need to work with the charity and other groups. But, boaters may wish to scrutinise the practical application of the charity's work. Some of this will only become apparent as time goes on. It remains to be seen how effective the charity copes with the new demands of raising money and planning for the future.

 

Some of what they intend to do will be contained in the Charity's contract/constitution/Trust Deed.

 

I hope the council groups will find a workable arrangement and won't be fighting corners all the time. Money is not the end result, a canal fit for all is. Money is a sterile necessity.

 

On the occasions when specific boating issues crop up, say boat license fees; the other groups and trust should not treat the boaters as a cash cow, and for what the boaters are receiving, undue pressure should not be the boaters' lot.

 

While I am obviously against the inclusion of associations in the group, all other independent candidates should be familiar with as much as they can be of the canal and function and finance; from a boater's perspective, but not only.

 

I think the group will progressively find their feet and place on the council.

[jam pudd]

Fair enough, but in a debate, if you say something, and someone takes the time to give a counter view, it would be helpful if you then responded to that.

 

For example you started this thread saying.....

 

 

 

 

I responded to that with the following.....

 

 

 

However you have not responded to say whether I stand any chance of passing your test of "amount of time on the water", or "amount of miles covered".

 

I regularly see people posting stuff that implies the roles best go to live-aboards, but I am not convinced that the vast majority of live-aboards do any more boating than we do.

 

I'll repeat the challenge also, that far more boat owners being represented are not live-aboards than those who are, so why are only live-aboards qualified to serve ?

 

You have said both.......

 

 

 

and.......

 

 

 

so I am not particularly clear if you see those taking on the roles as having to have had extensive experience of meetings and committees and how they work at a whole number of levels in order to be in with a chance, or whether you actually feel that keen independent boaters not coming to it with too much previous baggage could actually be a good thing.

 

For example in my working life I was variously a manager and at other times more an independent consultant or technical specialist. In those kind of roles, I have obviously experienced "Death by PowerPoint" many times just like anybody else who has worked in anything similar, but have always had a hate of what I regularly saw as "management speak" or frankly just bullshit a lot of the time. If I ended up on CaRT council, I would of course bring experience to it based on my working life, but I would like to think that would be endeavouring to act as negotiator to cut through any daft ideas, and try and broker the best solutions to anything on which I am allowed an input.

 

I suggest this is a situation where it's not necessary to come from a background where you spent large amounts of your time in meetings, committees, conferences, etc., but at least having reasonable experience in such matters could be highly useful when trying to broker the best situation for the boater community.

Hi Alan,

I do apologise for taking so long to respond to your queries. Family commitments and being in a poor dongle reception area is the cause. Like you I also like to get responses to questions even if the answers aren't as I'd expect.

Your replies are certainly fulsome and are giving you the advantage of setting out your stool for the electorate. I'll now respond to your queries as best I can.

Ref your time spent cruising: Yes, of course this meets the minimum criteria I'd expect my choice candidate to have so as to be confident that he/she is experiencing widely the poor maintenance we endure. I'm not sure what percentage of boaters on the water exceed your time/mileage but there are huge numbers of boats cruising for long periods in the spring/summer/autumn. Perhaps a good number of these will consider standing at the election so that we have a meaningful selection of candidates. We're out for seven months and throughout our travels we talk to boaters on the same mission; to cover the entire network.

Naturally all boat owners must be represented well and I certainly wouldn't want to see any special group represented separately. I anticipate we'll all automatically get the benefit from strong independent councillors who we both agree are desperately needed. It's the way the job at hand is tackled that we mostly differ slightly over, that's all. And yes I'm aware my comments aren't couched as perhaps they might be but they are intended to cause reaction in order to enliven the debate so that we electors can grasp the metal of those putting up.

With regard to my earlier“experience” and “baggage” comments: I believe that it would be a distinct advantage if our councillors have had sound senior management experience so that they are likely to be better equipped in dealing on our behalf with the financial machinations of the Trust bearing in mind the old regime will no doubt be fielding innumerable googlies in the early days. By baggage I mean that I believe our best interests wont be served by those who have a track record working closely with BW.

Yes, I'd like to chose a group of councillors who “cut to the chase” rather than serve up bull sxxt but the odd dose of “management speak” would be useful when trying to bring some non-group members along with you. Meeting experience is also very useful and tact is extremely important but diplomacy must be properly mixed with setting out or protecting objectives.

Best wishes in your endeavour.

Bob

[Sir Nibble]

With regard to my earlier“experience” and “baggage” comments: I believe that it would be a distinct advantage if our councillors have had sound senior management experience so that they are likely to be better equipped in dealing on our behalf with the financial machinations of the Trust bearing in mind the old regime will no doubt be fielding innumerable googlies in the early days. By baggage I mean that I believe our best interests wont be served by those who have a track record working closely with BW.

Yes, I'd like to chose a group of councillors who “cut to the chase” rather than serve up bull sxxt but the odd dose of “management speak” would be useful when trying to bring some non-group members along with you. Meeting experience is also very useful and tact is extremely important but diplomacy must be properly mixed with setting out or protecting objectives.

Best wishes in your endeavour.

Bob

I don't think I can agree with this. Wearas management experience would be an advantage for the trustees, the council is not there to manage. The job of the council is to appoint and hold to account the trustees. This is not a business enviroment but a political arena. The politicians art of sweet compromise tempered with ruthlessness is what is required. My ideal councillor will have no need to make management decisions, he will have need of the political skills to lean with sufficient weight on those who do.

[alan_fincher]

Very curiously I can't find a reply I felt sure I had posted in response to jam Pudd's latest post.

 

As I'm sure I reviewed it in its posted form after I had actually hit the "Add Reply" button, I'm not at all sure what I have done wrong - it's unusual to think I have posted, but then not be able to find the post.

 

If time permits I'll see if I can reconstruct a fuller reply later today, but in the meantime I would be interested in other people's views on the "senior management experience is required" suggestion.

 

I think I would need quite a bit of convincing that many of those who are to be represented by just these 4 elected Council members would think that all 4 places filled by people with "senior management" backgrounds best represented the aspirations of the boat owning community as a whole.

 

Views anyone ?

[Guest]

Views anyone ?

 

Council members will need to be articulate, persuasive even assertive when required but also with the ability to listen and consolidate/distil the views of boaters.

 

My experience of senior managers (and of being one) is that they are not normally automatically associated, in fact often these attributes are often mutually exclusive....

[Sir Nibble]

success in a venture such as this depends upon skillful application of the art of the possible. This is relevant to managers of course but without authority a manager is completely unarmed. How many managers will be successful if their carefully worked out strategy is greeted with "No, I don't think we'll do that" instead of "Yessir".

[Offcumden]

Very curiously I can't find a reply I felt sure I had posted in response to jam Pudd's latest post.

 

As I'm sure I reviewed it in its posted form after I had actually hit the "Add Reply" button, I'm not at all sure what I have done wrong - it's unusual to think I have posted, but then not be able to find the post.

 

If time permits I'll see if I can reconstruct a fuller reply later today, but in the meantime I would be interested in other people's views on the "senior management experience is required" suggestion.

 

I think I would need quite a bit of convincing that many of those who are to be represented by just these 4 elected Council members would think that all 4 places filled by people with "senior management" backgrounds best represented the aspirations of the boat owning community as a whole.

 

Views anyone ?

Alan

Its quite possible that you have responded on another forum as Bob Ellison appears to be spouting the Gospel according to Jam Pudd on several different forums. Perhaps he could explain why he decided to start this thread as a new member rather than his under his existing posting name of Bob Ellison. I would also be interested in why he feels it necessary to have apparently joined these forums at about the same point in time to post similar views.

Having met the gentleman in question, whilst he is entitled to his views it is no surprise to me that he takes every opportunity to expound them

Edited January 4, 2012 by Offcumden

[Guest]

Alan

Its quite possible that you have responded on another forum as Bob Ellison appears to be spouting the Gospel according to Jam Pudd on several different forums. Perhaps he could explain why he decided to start this thread as a new member rather than his under his existing posting name of Bob Ellison. I would also be interested in why he feels it necessary to have apparently joined these forums at about the same point in time to posat similar views.

Having met the gentleman in question, whilst he is entitled to his views it is no surprise to me that he takes every opportunity to expound them

 

Interesting - whilst he may be entitled to his views he's not entitled to a dual ID on this forum.....it's not allowed.

[jam pudd]

I don't think I can agree with this. Wearas management experience would be an advantage for the trustees, the council is not there to manage. The job of the council is to appoint and hold to account the trustees. This is not a business enviroment but a political arena. The politicians art of sweet compromise tempered with ruthlessness is what is required. My ideal councillor will have no need to make management decisions, he will have need of the political skills to lean with sufficient weight on those who do.

Yes, it is a "political" council and all your logic is sound and not far from mine. The principle reason thatI suggest our reps have sound management experience is purely that they are more likely to argue strong business cases when recommending changes to the management regime (of the established BW structures. Our councillos will need to be adept at both pulling apart the obvious failings of the past but also, and this is key, be well versed in presenting sound changes. individuals with business exp[erience are more likely to understand the bigger picture.

Whoever stands should be congratulated but I hope that the candidates present us with some idea of what they'll endeavour to do for the boater rather than just present themselves as being well met, tolerant and able to see all sides of an argument!

Bob

[Guest]

Yes, it is a "political" council and all your logic is sound and not far from mine. The principle reason thatI suggest our reps have sound management experience is purely that they are more likely to argue strong business cases when recommending changes to the management regime (of the established BW structures. Our councillos will need to be adept at both pulling apart the obvious failings of the past but also, and this is key, be well versed in presenting sound changes. individuals with business exp[erience are more likely to understand the bigger picture.

Whoever stands should be congratulated but I hope that the candidates present us with some idea of what they'll endeavour to do for the boater rather than just present themselves as being well met, tolerant and able to see all sides of an argument!

Bob

 

Bob - why are you using a dual ID on this forum...or is offcumden mistaken???

 

I quote the relevant bit of the forum rules and guidelines for ease of reference -

 

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, speculative,, inaccurate, aimed to deceive, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

This includes the use of duplicate identity or a identity or username aimed to deliberately deceive.

 

You will have had to sign up to these when you joined (both ID's)

[Guest wanted]

Very curiously I can't find a reply I felt sure I had posted in response to jam Pudd's latest post.

 

As I'm sure I reviewed it in its posted form after I had actually hit the "Add Reply" button, I'm not at all sure what I have done wrong - it's unusual to think I have posted, but then not be able to find the post.

 

If time permits I'll see if I can reconstruct a fuller reply later today, but in the meantime I would be interested in other people's views on the "senior management experience is required" suggestion.

 

I think I would need quite a bit of convincing that many of those who are to be represented by just these 4 elected Council members would think that all 4 places filled by people with "senior management" backgrounds best represented the aspirations of the boat owning community as a whole.

 

Views anyone ?

 

I don't think that coming from a management background is needed at all. Yes you will have to get your point across with the required authority but that can be done by using passion and experiance.(which you have in spades) I manage a small team (7) a project and a budget and I know that I am at my best when I am focusing on something I am 100% behind with or without my management status.

[Higgs]

I think I would need quite a bit of convincing that many of those who are to be represented by just these 4 elected Council members would think that all 4 places filled by people with "senior management" backgrounds best represented the aspirations of the boat owning community as a whole.

 

Plenty of back-seat drivers. At this point I wouldn't get too bogged down with the question of having the 'right stuff'. We've all seen the the kind of mess that so called people with the right stuff can create. I don't think that there is a formula.

 

There's going to be an awful lot of apathy surrounding these elections. I wouldn't set yourself up to be kicked every time something goes wrong for the boaters.

 

Hopefully CaRT will listen to each group and the council. We shall have to see how earnest CaRT are to work together with the groups.

 

It's never a good idea to pay up front for something that you expect to be provided, but boaters have to do this. Any adverse publicity about CaRT will effect public willingness to get involved.

 

This post just vanished. I didn't see it posted. That's why the second one below. Repeating.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Higgs

[alan_fincher]

Perhaps he could explain why he decided to start this thread as a new member rather than his under his existing posting name of Bob Ellison. I would also be interested in why he feels it necessary to have apparently joined these forums at about the same point in time to post similar views.

Well I'm duly confused, because not only was there apparently an existing member called "Bob Ellison" with a boat named "Jam Pudd", there is not only also the recently created "Jam Pudd" account, but yet another longer standing "NB Jam Pudd" account, created even a little before the "Bob Ellison" one.

 

There appears to be only one licensed boat listed called Jam Pudd, so presumably Bob, or at least someone associated with that boat has three different accounts on Canal World ?

 

Is that right, please, Bob, and if so any particular reason why ?

Edited January 4, 2012 by alan_fincher