Gearbox

[XAlan W]

I think it's a gearbox taken from a Ducati engine. Possibly made by Benevelli, almost certainly Italian anyway.

 

Good luck

 

Tim

Could it be that this gearbox was attached to a Ducati lump which did as most did & failed miserably, to have been re placed by the Lister, which maybe came without a gear box. As from the photo`s it looks to have been modified some [iIRC the Ducati didn`t have mountings/fixings on the back end of the box ] Just a thought

[Timleech]

Could it be that this gearbox was attached to a Ducati lump which did as most did & failed miserably, to have been re placed by the Lister, which maybe came without a gear box. As from the photo`s it looks to have been modified some [iIRC the Ducati didn`t have mountings/fixings on the back end of the box ] Just a thought

 

The Lister looks more like an industrial engine than marine, I'm sure at some stage a second-hand engine has been married to a secondhand gearbox.

 

 

Thanks for that, it certainly doesn't go like a Ducatti must have come from the one Vallantino Rossi is riding. What a strange box to fit in a narrow boat or am I yust showing my ignorance.

 

Ducati used to make small industrial & marine diesel engines. Quite a few small Springers were fitted with single-cylinder air-cooled Ducatis, they weren't well regarded though.

They did also make a twin, as well as watercooled versions. This box may have come from a Ducati twin?

 

Tim

Edited October 19, 2011 by Timleech

[claudia]

What is the difference between a marinised Lister and the industrial Lister. Would I be wise to change the box for say a LH150 or should I be looking to change the whole lot. This is all very new to me as I should think you have gathered.

[Timleech]

What is the difference between a marinised Lister and the industrial Lister. Would I be wise to change the box for say a LH150 or should I be looking to change the whole lot. This is all very new to me as I should think you have gathered.

 

Biggest single issue for you is likely to be that most industrial SR engines rotate the opposite way to most marine versions, and the LH150 has a gear pump which must revolve the right way.

There are ways around that, but not straightforward.

Something like a PRM box might be easier.

 

Tim

[Albion]

What is the difference between a marinised Lister and the industrial Lister. Would I be wise to change the box for say a LH150 or should I be looking to change the whole lot. This is all very new to me as I should think you have gathered.

 

Ian, I'm slightly puzzled by this thread. Your initial request was merely to establish how to check the oil level in the mystery gearbox, now it seems to have swung to changing the gearbox and, possibly, the engine. It seems an expensive way of topping up the gearbox oil if all else is working OK, if you don't mind me saying so. Is the engine/gearbox combo working OK at the moment and, if it is, why change? Have you tried loosening/removing the likely dipstick at the back corner of the gearbox? Just curious.

Roger

[alan_fincher]

Ian, I'm slightly puzzled by this thread. Your initial request was merely to establish how to check the oil level in the mystery gearbox, now it seems to have swung to changing the gearbox and, possibly, the engine. It seems an expensive way of topping up the gearbox oil if all else is working OK, if you don't mind me saying so. Is the engine/gearbox combo working OK at the moment and, if it is, why change? Have you tried loosening/removing the likely dipstick at the back corner of the gearbox? Just curious.

Roger

I can only agree, Roger!

 

There does seem a high likelihood that the identified "bolt" head may actually have a dip stick on the end, and, as you said previously, the chances of unscrewing it releasing anything into the internals seems unlikely. (Do it slowly and cautiously though, in case there is something spring loaded or something else unexpected!....)

 

I would not have thought replacing this rather odd looking box was going to be an easy option.....

 

It looks longer than many, so presumably the prop-shaft might not "reach" a replacement. I also suspect it is direct drive ???

 

Also those heavy welded angle irons it appears to mount to at the back look substantial enough to me that they may well also be supporting the back of the Lister, (can't see enough of the engine to tell for certain, though....)

 

I can't see another off the shelf gearbox dropping in without issues, (and a lot of further consequent expense, of course!.....)

 

Ian - are there issues with this box, or not ?

Edited October 20, 2011 by alan_fincher

[claudia]

Yes I can see where you are coming from as to where am I going with this, it started for me with aquiring this boat, getting the engine going putting it in gear, pushing off, bit of throttle and bashing into the bank as the thing went backwards. Put it into reverse and forward we went all be it very slowly. Conclusion must have the wrong prop, I was told it was a lm100 gearbox so I contacted Crowthers, gave them all the details I thought to be correct and they came back with a prop I needed born out by Chris on here. The prop is now being made and as things have come to light I appear to be getting deeper and deeper in the mier. Apart from the thing going backwards instead of forward and it will only do half a mile an hour the engine and box work fine. I was told running in reverse for a long period would boil the oil hence the reason for changing the oil and the start of the thread, but life does not appear that simple. I know I need a new prop but I am not sure I will have the right one hence the tangent to the thread , must seem crazy to get a box and engine to match my prop but I am very wet behind the ears as you will have guessed. This forum is very good and is helping me greatly please don't give up on me just yet cheers, Ian.

[bizzard]

Yes I can see where you are coming from as to where am I going with this, it started for me with aquiring this boat, getting the engine going putting it in gear, pushing off, bit of throttle and bashing into the bank as the thing went backwards. Put it into reverse and forward we went all be it very slowly. Conclusion must have the wrong prop, I was told it was a lm100 gearbox so I contacted Crowthers, gave them all the details I thought to be correct and they came back with a prop I needed born out by Chris on here. The prop is now being made and as things have come to light I appear to be getting deeper and deeper in the mier. Apart from the thing going backwards instead of forward and it will only do half a mile an hour the engine and box work fine. I was told running in reverse for a long period would boil the oil hence the reason for changing the oil and the start of the thread, but life does not appear that simple. I know I need a new prop but I am not sure I will have the right one hence the tangent to the thread , must seem crazy to get a box and engine to match my prop but I am very wet behind the ears as you will have guessed. This forum is very good and is helping me greatly please don't give up on me just yet cheers, Ian.

You must determine and tell us what reduction that gearbox as i described how to do earlier, its probably ''direct 1,1''and the rotation direction of engines crankshaft,as Tim sayes it could be an industrial SR2. Start the engine and tell us which way the pulley which drives your alternator turns looking at it face on,facing the stern,as this pulley is driven by the camshaft and revolves in the opposite direction to the crankshaft. If we Know these facts we could determine roughly which prop you should have.

Then you can contact your prop supplier and tell them these facts also and so get the correct propeller.

Edited October 20, 2011 by bizzard

[Chris-B]

Ian

give me a ring when you have five mins and I will do my best to resolve the issues

Chris

[claudia]

From what I can summise is its direct drive and turns anti- clockwise. (wish I could spell)

[bizzard]

From what I can summise is its direct drive and turns anti- clockwise. (wish I could spell)

What turns anti-clockwise,and how are you viewing it turning anti-clockwise?

[cereal tiller]

What turns anti-clockwise,and how are you viewing it turning anti-clockwise?

does the gearbox coupling and propshaft rotate in the opposite direction to the engine?

 

if that is the case,the reduction is 2-1

[bizzard]

does the gearbox coupling and propshaft rotate in the opposite direction to the engine?

 

if that is the case,the reduction is 2-1

That's right,but Ian's still not certain that its a direct 1.1,box.

On the SR engine unless you can see the flywheel rotate,at the other end of the engine there is no crankshaft stub showing,only the camshaft stub which should be driving his alternator,this camshaft rotates in the opposite direction to the crankshaft and at precisely half its RPM. If Ian just tells us which direction his alternator turns when engine is running,we just reverse that to give us the true direction of rotation of the crankshaft.

[claudia]

If you straddle the prop shaft and look to the sharp end the prop shaft turns anti clockwise

[bizzard]

If you straddle the prop shaft and look to the sharp end the prop shaft turns anti clockwise

Is that in forward gear engine running?

[claudia]

[cereal tiller]

if the gearbox coupling rotates in the same direction as the engine,it could be 1-1 or 3-1

[claudia]

Edited October 20, 2011 by claudia

[bizzard]

This engine looks like an ex industrial engine and probably rotates opposite to the marine version.

The flywheel and Starter ring gear are on the camshaft.

You say that the propshaft rotates anti-clockwise when viewing from behind when engine is running in forward gear,so providing the gearbox ''IS DIRECT 1.1''it would require ''A LEFT HAND PROPELLER''.

Did tour old prop have L/H or R/H stamped on it,somewhere on the boss area?

 

if the gearbox coupling rotates in the same direction as the engine,it could be 1-1 or 3-1

Only if the 3.1 had 3rd intermediate gear wheel.

[alan_fincher]

if the gearbox coupling rotates in the same direction as the engine,it could be 1-1 or 3-1

Not really......

 

You can of course have 3 gear, rather than 2 gear reduction boxes, in which case the prop turns the same way as the engine.

 

But you can have that with any reduction ratio, so for example can get Parsons boxes with a 2:1 reduction but 3 wheel, so the rotation is not reversed - or a 3:1 reduction but just the usual 2-wheel, in which case it does reverse the rotation....

 

It's not the reduction that determines it - it is how many gears in the reduction box.

[cereal tiller]

yes,you are ,of course correct

 

i was thinking PRM

[claudia]

Got the engine running now, the alternator runs anti clockwise as viewed from behind it. Does that mean the camshaft runs anti-clock and the engine runs clock-wise. The prop thats on is a right hand and when i put it in forward it goes backwards, I cant work out how fast the shaft is turning to the engine but my question is how much differant would the prop be between a 2-1 reduction and a 1-1. I have been told I need a 17-12 if its 2-1 cheers, Ian.

[bizzard]

Got the engine running now, the alternator runs anti clockwise as viewed from behind it. Does that mean the camshaft runs anti-clock and the engine runs clock-wise. The prop thats on is a right hand and when i put it in forward it goes backwards, I cant work out how fast the shaft is turning to the engine but my question is how much differant would the prop be between a 2-1 reduction and a 1-1. I have been told I need a 17-12 if its 2-1 cheers, Ian.

Yes the starter ring gear on your engine is on the camshaft which rotates in the opposite direction to the crankshaft and at exactly half the crankshafts speed.

Sounds about right,BUT! You MUST! make sure that it is a 2.1 reduction box.

First of all you ''are'' pushing the gear lever forward,towards the front of the boat to go forward?

Check it like this.

With engine stopped:-- With a piece of chalk mark one of those starter ring gear teeth which happens to align up with any convenient bolt head or casting rib and chalk mark that too. Now go to the gearbox output propshaft coupling flange and put a chalk mark on that where it aligns with any convenient bolt head or casting mark put a chalk mark on that too. You should now have 4 datum marks,2 aligned up on the starter ring gear and 2 aligned up on the prop output coupling flange.

Now don a pair of tough gloves. Stand over the starter ring gear,make sure you can see all the chalk marks if not get someone to watch the propshaft flange ones. Put the gear lever into forward gear.

Now pull both of the decompressor levers on the top valve cover up into the decompress position.Now grasp hold of the ring gear and in an anti-clockwise direction turn by hand watching the chalk marks. Now if the box is 2.1 reduction, 1 complete revolution on the ring gear bringing the chalk marks back in line with each other,the prop flange chalk marks if 2.1 will have done exactly the same one complete revolution. Whilst doing this take note of which way the prop flange turns when you turn the ring gear anti-clockwise. Re-check over and over and over again to make sure. If this is how it works out that 17x12 left hand prop sounds more or less o.k.

[claudia]

Cheers Bizzard will give that a go with everything crossed that it works out like that as thats what I have ordered.

[bizzard]

Cheers Bizzard will give that a go with everything crossed that it works out like that as thats what I have ordered.

Sure you've got it Ian?

Print those instructions off and take them to the job. Good luck bizzard.