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Winter moorings


NigelJ

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Those moorings are owned by the council so that might explain the price.

 

The ones outside the sport centre opposite the weir are owned by the council, but I don't think the ones I'm talking about are. For one thing, if they were I can't see why BW is letting them.

 

They're basically the same price as darlington wharf julynian mentions.

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The ones outside the sport centre opposite the weir are owned by the council, but I don't think the ones I'm talking about are. For one thing, if they were I can't see why BW is letting them.

 

They're basically the same price as darlington wharf julynian mentions.

 

We are talking about the same ones. I can only tell you what I know. Last year when I was moored there I need to overstay the 14 days so I could visit my Mother I phoned BW they told me to call the council and when I called them they said fine. I also think that is why the Book Boat was not allowed to sell books from those moorings.

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I'm talking about Broad Quay, which is the long railing sided stretch on the river. Turn left as you exit Bath flight, go past the train station and they're on the right. It's where the silver salmon trip boat moors if that's any help.

 

I think you're talking about Darlington wharf, which is a much better spot.

 

 

 

Yeah that's right, couldn't remember the name of it.

 

I know where you mean with the railings too, We moored there for some months, my mum lived in the flats opposite, ours and my brother's boat ended up there breasted up and undertook some fitting out. Didn't realise that you could book a mooring there and never came across any BW people either. I' might consider mooring there next winter, was that cost you quoted a monthly fee though. If so I won't be :lol:

 

 

OnTheRiver006.jpg

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I know they actively ticket that spot because I've seen boats there with tickets. It's weird that it's 72h given it's mostly empty, most of the time. Even in the summer.

 

I stayed there two weeks myself once, dastardly CCer that I am. Like your photo I was pretty much the only boat there. If it was half the price I'd seriously consider getting a winter mooring. Instead it'll be empty again.

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I know they actively ticket that spot because I've seen boats there with tickets. It's weird that it's 72h given it's mostly empty, most of the time. Even in the summer.

 

 

 

Yeah I'ts a great spot for going in to town too under a 5 minuet walk if that's heplful to anyone, the bus station is also immedialely to the Left of the boats up the bank. I think we'll end up hovvering at the Newbridge part of the river then to Bristol possibly for some short term mooring there If we can get it.

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Yeah I'ts a great spot for going in to town too under a 5 minuet walk if that's heplful to anyone, the bus station is also immedialely to the Left of the boats up the bank. I think we'll end up hovvering at the Newbridge part of the river then to Bristol possibly for some short term mooring there If we can get it.

 

I was at newbridge visitor mooring (outside the dolphin) a couple of months ago. We had to cut back all the brambles and trees to get to the bank. No idea what state it's in now. Other than that I always struggle to find anywhere to moor that end. Where abouts do you stop?

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My understanding is that, at the end of the term (usually 3 years) the price reverts to the average price that is charged at that particular site.

Yes, that was being suggested at some stage.

 

However the latest wording I have seen says......

 

At the end of the three year agreement, if you want to stay on the mooring, we will normally offer you a standard Mooring Agreement (at present, renewable annually) at the normal published guide price for the mooring site.

 

Although I admit it doesn't say how the "normal published guide" price will be calculated. It could I guess be just the standard rate paid by moorers that pre-date tenders and auctions, incremented by usual annual increases, or of course BW could choose to individually vary the "normal published guide price" at different sites by different amounts, adjusted to account for ones they have le,t (or not let !?!), under auction.

 

If the latter, it implies that all moorers at the site, even older ones, would be charged at an "adjusted" rate, so people at two nearby sites might suddnly see very different annual increases.

 

Surely some of the earliest tenders must have started more than 3 years ago, or must be very close to end of contract. It would be very interesting to know what has actually happened, (or happens),for people as existing fixed-term contracts come to an end. I have so far heard nothing on that topic.

 

As an aside......

 

At a site where BW consistently fail to let vacant berths..... Would all existing moorers suddenly seed a big reduction on annual renewals, because those berts are treated as "let for zero pounds". I rather think not! :lol:

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We are talking about the same ones. I can only tell you what I know. Last year when I was moored there I need to overstay the 14 days so I could visit my Mother I phoned BW they told me to call the council and when I called them they said fine. I also think that is why the Book Boat was not allowed to sell books from those moorings.

 

 

 

I think the book boat was in Bristol John, bristol CC

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If it was half the price I'd seriously consider getting a winter mooring. Instead it'll be empty again.

 

The most likely reason it's empty that tying up to some railings is not an adequate strategy for mooring on the Avon in winter.

 

And yes, it is BANES council land. They are the only one with any say, though they may well have authorised the BW signs.

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I thought she had the same problem in Bath. I could be having a senior moment!!

 

 

She may well have John I can only recall the newspaper article posted on here and it was definitely Bristol where they didn't want her trading. It certainly wouldn't surprise me though if Bath CC would have objected to italso. :lol: It's reasonable that she would have stopped there en-route to Bristol.

 

Lovely spot Bath Weir, mum has a painting by a well known local artist of the weir and pultney bridge painted about 30 years ago.

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I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest that open auctions are indeed a good way of establishing market rates over time. Yes it is possible to have moorings that fail to sell (particularly if you don't really bother advertising their forthcoming availability), and it's also possible to have the odd bidding war force the price up, but that's down to the discipline of those bidding, isn't it? Experience should prevent them from making the same mistake twice, and in the meantime why should BW turn down the money that someone has been stupid enough to offer?

 

Waterscape is not a great website for selling things, and if BW really want to attract the best prices they ought to advertise forthcoming auctions externally, through at least one inland waterways magazine and on the web. I'd have thought having that sort of information in a magazine would be a definite selling point, so they might even be able to haggle a free page or two as a mutual back-scratching deal. And websites such as this one and advertising sites like Apollo Duck would also welcome mooring adverts in exchange for a small contribution, I'd have thought.

 

The reserve prices should be low enough to attract those looking for a bargain, considerably lower than the average figure for the mooring location.

 

And most importantly, the system needs to run for long enough that it can self-regulate and become effective. That hasn't happened yet, and I for one would like it to continue unmolested for at least 10 years. It has not been given a chance to work yet, and pulling out now will just perpetuate the present glitches. This talk of reverting to fixed fees on the back of it sounds like a very bad idea indeed.

Edited by sociable_hermit
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I was at newbridge visitor mooring (outside the dolphin) a couple of months ago. We had to cut back all the brambles and trees to get to the bank. No idea what state it's in now. Other than that I always struggle to find anywhere to moor that end. Where abouts do you stop?

 

 

 

Well I'mm planning on mooring on the high shorings along by Sainsburys and toward the Hop Pole pub. The Dolphin was my first local pub by the way :lol: Drank in the Hop Pole for years too.

 

If you carry on from the dolphin through Loxbrook lock there's a lovely stretch of river to Saltford 4/5 miles, mooring would be tricky in some places, but there are spots, you might have to chop some brush away here and there but once in a good spot you can stay almost untroubled for quite long periods. The old boating station is now a massive pub eatery, so anywhere along that stretch you have access to a beer and food. There are also private moorings a quarter mile before reaching the pub heading for Bristol, there's a fuel point there also on a pontoon, the marina also has mooring pontoons on the river as well as quite a large basin, I would imagine it's pricey though, originally it was a caravan park and being on the river they expanded out to a marina as well.

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With apologies for diverting a winter moorings thread to a mooring auctions thread, (well it was MrSmelly, honest it was!....)

 

Picking up some of SH's points......

 

If BW want the system to work, they urgently need to fix a presumably not to difficult to fix problem whereby e-mail notifications of new moorings isn't happening. Simply putting something on a home page saying "we are aware it is broken" isn't enough.

 

People who pay over the guide price in auction are not necessarily "making a mistake" or being "stupid". if they are placed in a situation where they need a mooring, and don't wish to just join the reviled "towpath unwashed", sometimes they don't have a choice, do they ?

 

If you are going to let market forces determine, why have a reserve price at all? The claim that BW can't economically let a mooring at less than (usually) 75% of the rate to most other moorers is palpably bollocks. An unlet mooring produces no revenue at all, one let at (say) 50% of guide produces some, and, if you are realistic about "market forces", if the most someone will pay is 50% of guide, then, at the time it was let, that is what market forces said. In fact if someone will only pay 10% of guide price, that is by their argument the "market rate", surely ???

 

Finally, if BW want to maximise revenue, they need to sort themselves out, understand where the vacant moorings are, and get them advertised quickly. I know of one i would love to have bid on that has stood vacant at one of the most sought after sites for a year and a half now, (and no it's not somewhere there are getting rid of linear moorings). One at the berths where we keep Chalice was given up some months back, is standing empty, with no signs of readvertising. I have had to bid on a mooring that is less suitable for me, because I urgently needed one, knowing better alternatives are standing empty.

 

The whole thing has been shambolic, in my view, and continues to be. Indefensible, frankly.

 

Overall with auctions, BW are almost certainly now letting moorings collectively for less money than they would have got for them previously, and the fact that the odd one sells for (say) 150% of guide price can in no significant way offset the fact that many only let at 75% of guide price, and, possibly an equal number, many not at all.

 

It's got to be one of the best own goals ever, I would have thought.

 

You could never convince me it is "a good thing" either for BW, or for boaters generally, (although that is not to deny many have snapped a relative bargain, resulting in less revenue to BW).

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Well I'mm planning on mooring on the high shorings along by Sainsburys and toward the Hop Pole pub. The Dolphin was my first local pub by the way :lol: Drank in the Hop Pole for years too.

 

If you carry on from the dolphin through Loxbrook lock there's a lovely stretch of river to Saltford 4/5 miles, mooring would be tricky in some places, but there are spots, you might have to chop some brush away here and there but once in a good spot you can stay almost untroubled for quite long periods. The old boating station is now a massive pub eatery, so anywhere along that stretch you have access to a beer and food. There are also private moorings a quarter mile before reaching the pub heading for Bristol, there's a fuel point there also on a pontoon, the marina also has mooring pontoons on the river as well as quite a large basin, I would imagine it's pricey though, originally it was a caravan park and being on the river they expanded out to a marina as well.

 

It was my local for a bit too! I've been down that stretch a fair few times on the boat, but I've never managed to spot a spot on the river that looks suitable for mooring. It's always farmers fields with no access and I'm never sure how the farmer is going to feel about me just rocking up and plonking my boat there. I've moored near the hop pole a couple of times, but never for more than a night. Nobody else seems to moor there.

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It was my local for a bit too! I've been down that stretch a fair few times on the boat, but I've never managed to spot a spot on the river that looks suitable for mooring. It's always farmers fields with no access and I'm never sure how the farmer is going to feel about me just rocking up and plonking my boat there. I've moored near the hop pole a couple of times, but never for more than a night. Nobody else seems to moor there.

 

 

Remember I was moring there 4/5 years ago, i suspect a lot has changed. I never had any problem with farmers, it was tricky though mooring as many of the banks on farmers fields were quite soft soil, and a lot of cut outs made by fishermen. The reason I like the river is because it's quieter, especially where the high shorings are, the tow path is above you and you don't get people glaring into your boat, easy to turn there as well. We would just climb on the boat roof then clamber on to the towpath, I will be carrying a 7 f/t ladder when afloat too to help accessing awkward bits. If you rope up quite long the ropes can cope with any quick rise in river level. When we mored at keynsham 2006 the river flooded quite bad, we were on a pontoon then but although the current was quite rapid, the boat seemed to stay relatively still, at first it was a bit worring, a week later thought nothing of it, when it eased off a little a week later we even cruised up river against the current to Saltford, got a bit tricky at Saltford weir but we got up through the lock ok, moored up and went for a pint :lol:

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To get back to Winter Moorings, the prices advertised don't seem to bear any relationship to the facilities available. Where Mr Smelly is moored at Woodlesford is £8.99 a metre (Why not £9.00?) for just a water tap and rubbish. A mile or so further down Lemonroyd is also £8.99 but has water, elsan, rubbish and soon a pump out. A longer walk to the shop and pub though. Going down river is Castleford, only £6.80 but full sanitary station. Next up comes Jolly Miller, absolutely no facilities and the pub is shut but they are asking £9.34. And it can't be anything to do with auction prices as neither Jolly Miller or Lemonroyd have any permanent moorings as a guide price.

 

I can't compare prices with last year except for Clarence Dock where we booked and paid for a mooring last winter. We actually only got as far as Lemonroyd because of the ice but you don't get your money back. This year is £11.91 which works out at £8.00 a month more than last year for 58ft.

 

Interested to see Cuckoo Wharf in Birmingham on the list. For a start there is only really one visitor mooring there but I was told about 3 years ago that although it was zoned as a residential site, BW only wanted leisure moorings because of a dispute with the land owner.

 

I would agree that the auction system is daft. We shared locks on the Aire with a wide boat (before you ask he was only 9ft wide and the locks are 16ft!) who had a pontoon mooring at Selby that he won at auction. He had just bid and won on the mooring next to him for £700 a year less. So he doesn't have to move and just gives notice on his old mooring and saves!

 

Regards

Pete

 

Stuck again, this time by floodwater at Linton Lock on the Ouse.

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8.99 for water and rubbish would be a bargain round here. Mooring rings would be a bargain too.

 

Yes, would agree. Think Castleford is bollards!

 

I should have mentioned that from Lemonroyd down you get the dubious benefits of the tankers annd gravel barges keeping the ice broken.

 

Regards

Pete

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Sorry David you have completely lost me on your reasoning here.

 

No, I'm saying that if (using the OP's figures) you pay £973 for a 5 month winter mooring you are paying £195 per month. If you pay for a full year at £1947, but for two months in the summer you are out boating, then the cost of the mooring averaged over the time you actually use it works out at about the same figure.

 

David

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Well, since BW have now replied by simply confirming the winter price I queried, without answering my point about comparison with longterm prices on the same towpath stretch, I've now asked them to explain how winter prices are calculated. Yes, in my examples, the 20% higher rate equates to dividing the longtem annual rate by 10 and then multiplying by 12. So let's see what they say.

 

However, I wouldn't say that justifies the higher charge on its own, as - like has been pointed out here - the winter moorings are often no more than grassy stretches of towpath and may be nowhere near a water point. On the Macc several are identically priced but some of them are near water points and others are not.

 

If BW quote that vague concept 'market forces' I'll ask them to explain that, too.

 

So let's see eh? ... I'll let you know

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