Canal art

[dave moore]

Hi all

I meant to respond to this some time ago but work got in the way. Please bear in mind when reading what follows that I've been around boats since 1962 (the famous Stourbridge Rally was my introduction to canals), was mentored by Malcolm Braine, caught the tail end of carrying and have a lifetime's experience in canl boat decoration, commercially for the last 30 years. I guess I'm pretty traditional!

 

The problem I have with "Paint Roses and Castles" is that the examples, paints, brushes recommended are a far cry from the work of the dock painters in trading days. there's a certain tweeness about the stuff in the book that doesn't appeal at all. When it was first published Waterways World asked a very well known painter to review it. He declined, on the grounds of not being able to respond positively. Brian Collings at Stoke Bruerne, another noted painter, took on the task. His final comment....".....if you want to commemorate the work of the dockyard painters, look elsewhere". I'm glad to see anyone having a go, but I always suggest that museums are the best places to seek inspiration. The amount of poorly painted stuff in chandleries and canal side shops doesn't help. People buy it and assume that they've got a piece of authentic canal art. Tony Lewery's excellent " Flowers Afloat" addresses the issue pertinently in the final chapter and I'd like to make it mandatory reading for anyone attempting to try the artform for the first time.

 

Paint and brushes. I've never got on with Humbrol. The colours are a tad muted, it doesn't hold up when used externally and doesn't have the flow qualities that are neccessary for roses and castles, where brushstrokes are a premium factor in successful execution. Better by far is Craftmaster Flat Colour, formulated by Phil specifically for this work. Years ago we both used something called Intenso, a flat colour (ie non gloss) which was vibrant and quick drying. It became unavailable so Phil produced his own similar paint. It's a must for serious painters. Brushes. Yu can buy a pack of brushes from an art shop, I know, but better by far are signwriter's sable brushes...chisel edged and pointed, along with a couple of flat ferruled "one stroke" brushes for larger areas.

 

I've run painting weekends since the early 90's and many of my students have been amazed at the difference that good paint and brushes make to the ease of execution and the finished result. Using these, I can turn out a finished bunch of roses in about 15 mins working time, allowing for the backgrounds to partially dry before adding petals. I'm certain that the old boys worked briskly and I aim to follow in their brushstrokes and footsteps. I'm always happy to help and advise, as I say to customers....." I only charge for doing it, not talking about it!"

 

Interesting to note that Evo has a Brummagem Boat from the 80s. I used to paint for them then - probably your boat carried my lettering at some time.

 

Best wishes to all

Dave

[Evo]

Any idea what the basic kit would cost in Craftmaster flat paints - for the same size tins. I agree the Humbrol stuff is not easy sometimes, it seems thin and watery with little pigment. There are tips to get over this in her book though.

 

What we were impressed with was that Ann Young got me and the missus (zero artistic tallent) creating something that we ourselves liked, We still cant believe we did that...!! and not only that but really enjoyed doing it, I thought that was what it was supposed to be about...

 

I'm not good enough or experienced enough to argue with professional painters and artists about traditions. As I said I respect your views, if I was restoring an old boat and wanted it done 'properly' I'd get someone to do it. We are not restoring an old boat, we are cruising about in what amounts to no more than a hire boat enjoying ourselves, I dont care if my Roses are the wrong yellow and my leaves are too big, my brush strokes are upside down and I took too long. My castle has 2 extensions from different centuries which causes much hilarity, but who cares.

 

By the way ... i would pay that bloke/bird to paint that giant squid on our boat...I love it.

[WotEver]

My wife has started having a go,

 

That left hand tower looks awfully angry.

[dave moore]

Hi Evo

Craftmaster comes in250ml tins. If you pm me a postal address, I'll happily send you some samples to try before you commit. I could post some 35mm film pots of colour to you, use white spirit to adjust consistency and load the brush well.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers

Dave

[Evo]

Thats a very nice offer Dave ....I'll figure out PM's when I get home and send you one....cheers

[kitman]

Evo your castle looks pretty nice I think, nice detail.

 

I decided to have a go recently. I stated off with going on Phil Speight's course which is a great 'primer' for anyone looking to start, recommended!

 

First try,

 

 

Third try, (dont ask about second try lol!)

 

 

4th and 5th. These last two are copied from Frank Jones obv

 

 

[Evo]

I'm impressed, hang on a minute, you're a painter...!!! thats cheating. No seriously Its top fun and serious concentration isn't it...?

I'm glad I'm not the only plonker posting pics of his early efforts... I can see phils influence in your stuff as i can mine castlewise. I'm trying to develop my own take on it now that i think i'm a tad more comfortable, we have 7 porthole bungs and have only done 1 side of 4 of them so far, so plenty for me to get stuck into.

 

Isnt it strange how you can see a face in the castles....mine looks like Frank Spencer, Your 1st one is a stroke victim and your 4th reminds me of a cartoon Pinochio... and your fifth is definately peperami man ...LOL

 

 

Edit..and Thomas the Tank peeping rond the side of No2.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Evo

[Evo]

Blimey Dave, Your samples arrived today, I am truly grateful and cant thank you enough. Cant wait to give them a go this weekend.

Off to have a look at your work now..!! Superb, I dont come across many folk like you...cheers.

[kitman]

Your 1st one is a stroke victim

ha, thats what my mate said aswell!

[Phil Speight]

Kitman - if you get much better at this I may have to break your arm.This would stop you painting and may prejudice your sex-life. Dave me old buddy, your posts coincide with my feelings exactly - as you knew they would. I`ve been loaned ( from the "national collection" no less) a panel by Crowshaw, one of the pair in Tony`s first book,and an early but pristineIsiah Atkins landscape ) to help with our teaching and to go into our own display. When we finish it. Everyone else - anyone who has genuine wish to learn more about the work of the real boat painters - most of whom are long dead - Dave and I have combined our private collections of old painted ware, added various pieces we have on loan and intend to display them all for educational purposes in Dave`s loft! It`s a very up-market loft you iunderstand with walls , a floor, lighting etc. Unlike mine. Anyway, I feel that my collection is wasted in the Highlands.Friends up here are interested enough but I felt it more useful to the canal community in general if the stuff was available for people to study and enjoy if it was kept in the midlands.

Bugger of it is - that means I can`t enjoy it myself. That is acceptable for the time being as long as people remain interested. If you are - talk to Dave.

[paddy r]

That left hand tower looks awfully angry.

you need to meet my wife

 

runs and hide's have you ever seen a grown man cry!

[Evo]

Took the boat out this weekend and what a weekend it was. We tried your paints out Dave - by the way thanks for the accompanying letter.

Having read yours and Phils responses here I thought I'd have a go at some other types of Roses, particulary those from old photographs etc.

 

The weird thing is I just cant paint very well when I'm sober - but I sure am shithot when I'm tiddly. The missus practiced her Roses because she is frustrated that mine are better than hers, or so she says. We tried the Humbrols and teh paints you sent me Dave along side each other and I have to say, if we palleted them and followed all the advice then we couldn't tell the difference. Remember we are probably not good enough at the moment to appreciate the difference.

 

As you get better at doing this stuff you look back at your first goes and just want to erase them and start again. She wont let me, she wants to keep a very visible record of how we improve. I think she'll change her mind when she does a good one herself..hahaha

 

Had great fun again, well worth doing, we only practiced this weekend so nothing to show. I'm desperate to do an old 'Haywain' Style cart and bloke fishing for some of my castle scenes, but really struggling with brush strokes to get something that looks right with just a few flicks.

 

Thanks again Dave, I am trying ...honest.

[dave moore]

Hi Evo

Thanks for the kind words. The first 500 roses are the worst (and I'm not joking!), like all skills painting doesn't happen overnight, it requires practise and lots of it.

I promise you that Craftmaster is a vast improvement to Humbrol, not least in the depth and vibrancy of the finished piece....boat painting is meant to wrench eyes from sockets IMHO.

 

Keep painting, just don't use beer or wine as thinners, nor drink the white spirit ( you laugh, but I've known it done....) and call me if I can help.

 

Best wishes

Dave

[kitman]

Kitman - if you get much better at this I may have to break your arm.This would stop you painting and may prejudice your sex-life.

HAha! cheers!

 

Thanks for introducing me to painting castles, I'm really pleased I got the chance to be given a step up!

 

Chris

[Tiber]

Hello all, I am new to the site and a relatively new boat owner. I also have been painting roses and castles (trying anyway). I got the Anne Young Book , but I much prefer Tony Lewerys (pity I cant paint like him :-) ). After using Dulux trade gloss and humbrol I need to find something that paints a little better as I would like to have a go at a picture on the outside of the boat oooooooooo!! Any ideas? my apologies if I have missed them as I read through the messages very quickly

 

Do you need to paint over in varnish or similar after.

[dave moore]

Hi

As I mentioned in a previous post, Craftmaster decorative Flat Colour is the stuff to use. It's quick drying,vibrantly coloured and will give far better results than Humbrol or Dulux. PM me for further advice....it's me day job, decorating boats!!

Cheers

Dave

[Tiber]

Hi

As I mentioned in a previous post, Craftmaster decorative Flat Colour is the stuff to use. It's quick drying,vibrantly coloured and will give far better results than Humbrol or Dulux. PM me for further advice....it's me day job, decorating boats!!

Cheers

Dave

 

Thank you for that information, I will have a look on their website for the paint. Quick drying is good as I am going to attempt to paint a scene of sorts on the side panel as you go down the stairs to the stern door. I have already done the panels for my hatch doors, they are passable but I think I will replace them as I am not too happy with the humbrol finish

[Tiber]

I'm happy with these for first attempts...takes a while to get used to paints and surfaces. Still got a bit to do on the table before finally varnishing it. Neither of us can draw for toffee, we never watched telly all week...sometimes parked up by 3pm and worked almost non stop all night without realising what the time was....now wheres my fender making book..!!! We really enjoyed doing these and the table and one of the port hole bungs is a joint effort...which was especially satisfying.

 

Table

 

Port hole bungs

 

 

I love the port hole bungs after much searching for something to cover my portholes ( curtains, crochet panels, wooden shutters etc)its bungs for me lol.

[BlueStringPudding]

I'm interested in the "which paint is best" discussion because I use whatever I have lying around. The panel I did at the weekend includes Dulux Weathershield, Blackfriars enamel, Sikkens boat paint and Dulux household gloss. I suspect it'd be tricky for most people to tell which is which.

 

[Evo]

Wow Pud, I like that...great colours. Who actually came up with that 'lips' style petal. Phil seems to have done all his yellow ones like that on our boat.

 

Anyway..you're too bloody good. You could do it in mushy pea juice, mustard, amd gravy and it would look Ok.

[BlueStringPudding]

Haha! Mushy pea juice!? I might try that, it's gotta be cheaper than enamel. The "moustache roses" as I call them were taught to me by Terence, but I can't pretend to have stuck very strictly to the proper technique!

[BlueStringPudding]

Can anyone give me advice on my knobsticks!?!?!

 

Where else can you ask that without getting arrested? (At the moment, probably anywhere, coz the police have one or two things to deal with first).

 

Anyway - I've had a stab at painting knobstick style roses, but in the absence of a teacher I've tried to guess at the order of the brush strokes from looking at photos online. Where can I learn the proper way to do these without paying for a course!? Please can someone advise me on which website / book to do some research?

 

Meanwhile, these ones I am calling "Knobhead Roses"

 

 

[Tiber]

Can anyone give me advice on my knobsticks!?!?!

 

Where else can you ask that without getting arrested? (At the moment, probably anywhere, coz the police have one or two things to deal with first).

 

Anyway - I've had a stab at painting knobstick style roses, but in the absence of a teacher I've tried to guess at the order of the brush strokes from looking at photos online. Where can I learn the proper way to do these without paying for a course!? Please can someone advise me on which website / book to do some research?

 

Meanwhile, these ones I am calling "Knobhead Roses"

 

 

 

I think your "knobhead" roses look great.

[Evo]

I think the knobs are good aswell. What are they supposed to look like, do you have a piccy/URl of an old original.

My latest effort is leaning towards a more trad style aswell. I would post a pic but my boats gone..!!! Brother-in-law has took my boat for 2 weeks hols - very depressing. I used any old colours and painted them all on top of each other whilst still wet. Its a sort of Custard, HP sauce, icing sugar, and orange Zest jobbie if you know what I mean. I was pretty chuffed with them, reproduction will be my problem though.

 

Forgot to say, that whole board looks stunning. Maybe not traditional but just a good job from someone who obviously knows what she's doing. Keep posting the pics of your work, You use unusual colours and have a distinctive style and I for one love it.

 

 

Did some searching around and found this - on this site aswell.

now if only I could do something like that

Edited August 11, 2011 by Evo

[scrumpylurcher]

As David has said the Craftmaster range are purpose made for Roses and Castles type work. For those starting out you can buy a starter kit that includes the tins of paint, brushes etc and some basic guidance from Phil Speight. The five colours supplied can by easy mixing give you all the alternative colours you require. I know they are stocked at the Stoke Bruene Museum and Wharf Chandlers at Braunston. You will needs to varnish the finished article and I use the Craftmaster varnish as well, it doesn`t seem to discolour the white. Although it has been suggested that a certain ammount of yellowing gives the work and aged look.

Those knobsticks are very impressive, I have yet to try them but would also appreciate any guidance to the order of work. If I could achieve what you have done there I would be well pleased