battery chargers

[nb Innisfree]

In our travels I can think of two instances where boaters weren't very happy with their Victron combis, when I pointed out it wasn't set up properly one of them gave me a disbelieving look and the other stated it had been installed by their competent boat builder, you can only smile and shrug your shoulders. I do think a bit of all dancing all singing kit like the Victron with all it's various options and settings is wasted on some who want something more basic and simpler.

Edited June 21, 2011 by nb Innisfree

[bottle]

You do not need my endorsement but I do agree.

[WotEver]

I do think a bit of all dancing all singing kit like the Victron with all it's various options and settings is wasted on some who want something more basic and simpler.

Agreed. And there are far too many installers (it seems) who have no idea how to set them up correctly.

 

Tony

[mikevye]

Agreed. And there are far too many installers (it seems) who have no idea how to set them up correctly.

 

Tony

 

I really appreciate the forum input on this one and after a bit more research I will have sufficient info to make an informed decision. However for the one member who keeps banging on about having a fiddle with my settings I would like to recap on events to date. 12/2500/120 stand alone victron used as invertor only. Along comes 2.0 suitcase Honda. Enquiry on the forum establishes that I need to either (a) have a "fiddle" with the switches or (b)get it set up professionally, I chose the latter(Onboard Energy) and the system works perfectly for over a year with NO problems whatsoever. Recently the system charge voltage after 30 minutes running starts to ramp up and gradually increases to 14.8 volts which is the high voltage setting for the smart bank which then begins to cut in and out. Left unattended the voltage would go over 15 volts. Having lost the sound on one TV due to overcharging and eventually the batteries I am not taking any risks with this situation and certainly have no intention of having a fiddle with the switches.

 

regards mike

[Gibbo]

Mike, replace the internal fuses (if there are any).

 

There was a problem a few years ago where low value fuses (say 1 to 3 amps - the little glass ones) tended to go slightly high resistance as they aged. This will cause the Victron to under-measure the battery voltage and increase the charger output voltage to compensate.

 

I know this problem occured with Heart and Mastervolt chargers. There's a good chance it also got Victron.

[WotEver]

What a great observation. You got a greenie from me for that

 

eta - you WILL get a greenie when I can give you one ;-)

Edited June 22, 2011 by WotEver

[nb Innisfree]

I really appreciate the forum input on this one and after a bit more research I will have sufficient info to make an informed decision. However for the one member who keeps banging on about having a fiddle with my settings I would like to recap on events to date. 12/2500/120 stand alone victron used as invertor only. Along comes 2.0 suitcase Honda. Enquiry on the forum establishes that I need to either (a) have a "fiddle" with the switches or (b)get it set up professionally, I chose the latter(Onboard Energy) and the system works perfectly for over a year with NO problems whatsoever. Recently the system charge voltage after 30 minutes running starts to ramp up and gradually increases to 14.8 volts which is the high voltage setting for the smart bank which then begins to cut in and out. Left unattended the voltage would go over 15 volts. Having lost the sound on one TV due to overcharging and eventually the batteries I am not taking any risks with this situation and certainly have no intention of having a fiddle with the switches.

 

regards mike

 

I assume I'm the one who keeps 'banging on' as you put it, so obviously not all of the forum input is appreciated, my intention wasn't to keep on at you but an honest attempt to point out a possible misunderstanding about your Victron, I don't recall ever advising you to 'fiddle' with anything, you have made your feelings clear and I can see my efforts are not appreciated so I will bow out and leave you to it as quite honestly I really don't give a toss what you decide to do.

[mikevye]

I assume I'm the one who keeps 'banging on' as you put it, so obviously not all of the forum input is appreciated, my intention wasn't to keep on at you but an honest attempt to point out a possible misunderstanding about your Victron, I don't recall ever advising you to 'fiddle' with anything, you have made your feelings clear and I can see my efforts are not appreciated so I will bow out and leave you to it as quite honestly I really don't give a toss what you decide to do.

 

With over 10k+ membership and so few proportionally contributors to the forum it's answers similar to yours that put off newbies from asking even the simplest of questions. I've only persisted in getting you out in the open to identify your attitude when people don't automatically accept your questionable advice.

 

regards mike

[nb Innisfree]

With over 10k+ membership and so few proportionally contributors to the forum it's answers similar to yours that put off newbies from asking even the simplest of questions. I've only persisted in getting you out in the open to identify your attitude when people don't automatically accept your questionable advice.

 

regards mike

 

In your case my 'questionable' advice was to suggest, based on my experience with our Victron, that with a bit of perseverance you might be successful with yours. Any advice is questionable, that's what advice is, not a statement of fact but an individual view but if it's true that my answers put newcomers off then I can only stop contributing, as there is no feedback to my efforts I have no way of judging. My 'attitude' is just trying to help people, maybe my enthusiasm comes across as a bit overbearing, I don't know, but I must say your attitude and others does dampen that enthusiasm sometimes. The principle in trying to help someone with their problem is to realise that the only one that can solve it is the person with the problem, others can only offer advice, the decision is up to that individual.

 

For the record I've never followed advice as there are so many differing opinions, instead I've listened to them and then used my own judgement, that's what you have to do but without any more questionable input from me, I'll leave it to much more knowledgeable people than me, Gibbo and others spring to mind but you have to decide who to follow if you are unable or unwilling to work things out for yourself.

 

ETA: Looking at my profile I see my reputation is classed as 'excellent', I assume from that that most members rate my advice as ok, who do I believe, them or you?

 

Maybe someone could start a poll to decide how wonderful I am.

Edited June 22, 2011 by nb Innisfree

[nb Innisfree]

Mike, replace the internal fuses (if there are any).

 

There was a problem a few years ago where low value fuses (say 1 to 3 amps - the little glass ones) tended to go slightly high resistance as they aged. This will cause the Victron to under-measure the battery voltage and increase the charger output voltage to compensate.

 

I know this problem occured with Heart and Mastervolt chargers. There's a good chance it also got Victron.

 

Nice one, I will check ours when I can back to the boat

[mikevye]

Mike, replace the internal fuses (if there are any).

 

There was a problem a few years ago where low value fuses (say 1 to 3 amps - the little glass ones) tended to go slightly high resistance as they aged. This will cause the Victron to under-measure the battery voltage and increase the charger output voltage to compensate.

 

I know this problem occured with Heart and Mastervolt chargers. There's a good chance it also got Victron.

 

Thanks Gibbo, (and innisfree as I'd missed this input) I was going to check all the relevant connections for resistances/corrosion this week end now I will have a look at that parameter as well. On the main subject of battery chargers I have had one professional advise that the need for a high output device is only necessary if you let the batteries discharge regularly. I never knowingly let my batteries go below 50% on SG so I'd manage with a 40amp BC. Also as a liveaboard I would only need a 3 stage BC as float would only be needed if I left the boat unattended and on shore supply which I don't. Any thoughts on this one please?

[mikevye]

Well Gibbo comes up tops again. This is what I found after opening up seemingly good leads. The most worrying was the positive lead to the 12 volt ring main which I only discovered when I cut it back because it was too long.Some remarkable examples of soldered wrong sized connections dont you think?

 

The pictures are available to view at http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m623/abailey46/

 

Suffice to say the Victron battery charger is working fine and thanks to the forum I've saved quite a few bob Ta Mike

[Phil Ambrose]

Another Victron, or have you been put off?

 

3x 30A Numax chargers in parallel? Would give you a handy 90A for not too much cash, presuming you can source them for £120 each or so.

 

I've a 60A Victron and one of the Numax 30A chargers, and both have been faultless so far.

 

PC

 

I use a Numax 30amp and cannot fault it, it has been in constant use (apart from when we cruise)for 3 years, oh tell a lie I have just changed a noisy fan, (£5-00 from Maplin)

[Diane]

Well Gibbo comes up tops again. This is what I found after opening up seemingly good leads. The most worrying was the positive lead to the 12 volt ring main which I only discovered when I cut it back because it was too long.Some remarkable examples of soldered wrong sized connections dont you think?

 

The pictures are available to view at http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m623/abailey46/

 

Suffice to say the Victron battery charger is working fine and thanks to the forum I've saved quite a few bob Ta Mike

 

 

Glad to hear it!

[Guest]

Well Gibbo comes up tops again. This is what I found after opening up seemingly good leads. The most worrying was the positive lead to the 12 volt ring main which I only discovered when I cut it back because it was too long.Some remarkable examples of soldered wrong sized connections dont you think?

 

The pictures are available to view at http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m623/abailey46/

 

Suffice to say the Victron battery charger is working fine and thanks to the forum I've saved quite a few bob Ta Mike

Ithin you have had a close call there

[Arnot]

Well Gibbo comes up tops again. This is what I found after opening up seemingly good leads. The most worrying was the positive lead to the 12 volt ring main which I only discovered when I cut it back because it was too long.Some remarkable examples of soldered wrong sized connections dont you think?

 

The pictures are available to view at http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m623/abailey46/

 

Suffice to say the Victron battery charger is working fine and thanks to the forum I've saved quite a few bob Ta Mike

I can't help worrying a bit over the pictures and information you posted.

 

Just what purpose had the thicker burnt cables in your installation? If they were the main supply cables then they look a bit thin for a 12/3000/120.

 

It also looks as though the smaller cables were to take power from the inverter terminals to supply some other domestic load. If so, this is not good practice and if the inverter supply fuse were to go, it could lead to excessive voltages on this load if the charger was going. This would also lead to increased loading on the main supply cables mentioned above.

 

Also, are you using the supplied battery temperature sensor? A problem with this can lead to increased battery charging voltages as the inverter attempts to compensate for a spurious temperature input. There should be a graph of the output to temperature correction in you manual and this can be verified by dipping the device in a mug of warm water and allowing it to cool whilst plotting the output voltage.

 

It is also a bit surprising, given the evident damage, that no-one noticed the burning smell.

 

Gibbo suggested changing the little glass fuses, did you and if so did this cure the problem? I too have had problems with these in the past.

 

Finally, the termination suggests that the installation may not be of the best quality in general. When you had the inverter set up professionally was it "in situ" and if so was the professional an installer or sales engineer? It does rather look as though having the installation checked by someone with experience of high power inverter chargers may be a wise move.

 

Regards

 

Arnot

[mikevye]

Really sorry Arnot for not responding earlier I didn't think anyone had added to the topic. In fairness I think most of the damage was caused when the original Alternator overcharged and took my previous set of batteries with it! The temp sensor is disconnected I think on Gibbos advice. The main supply cables are not among the examples and much thicker. The burnt red wire is one of two 12 volt supplies to the boat accessories. I would appreciate your help in defining where the glass fuses are as my invertor doesn't appear to have them.

 

Best Regards