Varnish or wax

[Sarah and Ian]

Hello All

 

We're getting to the final stages of our refurbed boat being ready. We have 22 year old cedar tongue and groove and we are having below the gunnels done in oak faced ply. The cedar has been rubbed back and Im wondering whats the best to use for a low shine finish thats hard wearing. I'm going to be painting this weekend before we start moving aboard. On the saturday\ sunday. Any ideas what to use.

[Justme]

Oil?

 

Take a look at THIS little project. Its all made with Western Red Cedar & internally oiled. The out side is being left to "silver"

[WotEver]

You'll probably get as many different answers as you do posts but I'd avoid varnish because it tends to 'sit on' the wood and is difficult if not impossible to touch-up. I'd avoid wax because it's not hard wearing. I would instead use an oil finish.

 

If you use one of the 'Hard Oil' finishes such as this one from Axminster (no connection, just a happy user) you'll end up with a very hard finish that's dead easy to touch-up. It's also easy to apply - brush it on, wait ten minutes, wipe off any excess. Do this three times and you'll have a lovely low-sheen finish that's also hard, and only requires a gentle abrade and recovering to touch up in the future.

 

Tony

 

edit to add - ooh, two consecutive posts saying oil!

Edited April 18, 2011 by WotEver

[GSer]

Osmo floor wax/oil

 

I've not tried it on Cedar but I've used it on Ash, it's great, very easy to use and a leaves a tough finish easily repaired if damaged.

 

Just paint it on clean sanded wood, leave for an hour then buff it off with a lint free cloth, leave to dry (7-10hrs) then repeat. If you get any areas of dust/contamination just de-nib it lightly with a scotchbrite pad and re-cover it with the oil.

 

Make sure you manage your rag waste as this oil oxidises(?) easily and there's an outside chance that oily rags could self ignite.

 

Paul

[WotEver]

... there's an outside chance that oily rags could self ignite.

I read this again, and again, and again. I have never ever heard of it actually happening, though. Is it one of those theoretical possibilities that requires so many simultaneous conditions that it's a million to one chance that it would actually occur?

 

Tony

[GSer]

I read this again, and again, and again. I have never ever heard of it actually happening, though. Is it one of those theoretical possibilities that requires so many simultaneous conditions that it's a million to one chance that it would actually occur?

 

Tony

 

I agree, but 'cos i'm from an engineering background, it's just drummed into you to manage your rag waste, it only needs to go wrong once to be a big problem. The danger is mentioned on Osmo's paperwork and i thought it worth repeating. Better safe that sorry.

 

Paul

[blackrose]

I've heard of it happening to a bloke who left a rag soaked in linseed oil which set fire to his boat. It's not an urban myth. If you want to leave an oil soaked rag indoors, put it in a glass jar with a lid.

 

I've tried various oils and waxes and never been able to get an acceptable finish. Perhaps it's just me - it looks great when it's wet but just goes dull as soon as it dries no matter how many coats you apply or how much you buff it. It also seems to attract a lot of dust.

 

It's perfectly possible to touch up old or damaged varnish if you know how. I'm doing that job on an old Thames steam boat fitted in teak.

 

Has anyone ever used Le Tonkinois Varnish (www.letonkinoisvarnish.co.uk) I just wondered if it's as good as they claim?

Edited April 18, 2011 by blackrose

[MtB]

Hello All

 

We're getting to the final stages of our refurbed boat being ready. We have 22 year old cedar tongue and groove and we are having below the gunnels done in oak faced ply. The cedar has been rubbed back and Im wondering whats the best to use for a low shine finish thats hard wearing. I'm going to be painting this weekend before we start moving aboard. On the saturday\ sunday. Any ideas what to use.

 

 

Wax looks far nicer and brings out the depth in the wood. Wax however has a BIG drawback - water splashes wreck the finish and leave horrible marks so wax needs looking after carefully.

 

You'll be surprised at how often water gets on waxed timber....

 

Mike

[Ally]

I'm seconding Osmo Polyx wax oil, very easy to use, easy to maintain, soft finish, but not cheap....but a little goes a long way!

We use it on all our boats...no complaints so far!

[David Schweizer]

This question is one of the regulars, and people who know me will already know my opinion on wood finishes, however for the benefit of the OP's I will repeat some of it.

 

Linseed Oil based finishes are fine for hardwood furniture when maintained in a dry warm environment such as a heated house, only requiring the occasional wax polishing to maintain the warm glow. If you are planning to live on your boat then Oil finish should be OK, but, as already suggested, be aware of staining damage that can be caused by water splashes or condensation. Irrespective of the environmental conditions, it is also my experience that Oil finishes do need supplementary coatings every few years to maintain the protective surface.

 

If you are not going to live on the boat, and it is going to be left unattended for most of the winter, I would go for a decent quality spirit based varnish, which will provide long term protection to your valued wood work, you can get them in a range of finishes from Very High Gloss(Yacht Varnish), Gloss, Satin, or Matt. I have always used Blackfriars, which I have found to be consitently good, but there are others on the market which will serve equally well.

 

Having said that, I have personally never tried varnishing Cedar wood. It has a naturaly oily and absorbant nature, and I have always considered to be primarily a timber for external usage rather than internal use. It will take oil finishes readily, however, I understand that it will also take varishes and paints quite easily, but may need washing down with white spirit, before application. It is also worth noting that because it is quite an absorbant timber, any finish will be drawn into the timber and will be difficult to remove if the desired effct is not achieved with your chosen finish. As with all work on an unknown surface, it is a good idea to practice first, preferably on a spare piece of timber, or alternatively on a section which is normally hidden from view.

 

.

Edited April 19, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Sarah and Ian]

A bit of an update. The boatbuilder has rubbed it back has very kindly offered to varnish it for me in a silk matt varnish. As it makes it easier for them as I was trying to fit a varnishing slot into their schedule!

 

Thanks for all the advice. I had contact who could get me the osmo products at trade if needed.

[WotEver]

This question is one of the regulars, and people who know me will already know my opinion on wood finishes...

David, have you ever tried one of the "Hardwax Oils" such as the one I linked, or the oft-recommended Osmo Polyx?

 

The finish isn't soft - it's far more like varnish. It doesn't stain like a waxed finish - it's far more like varnish.

 

I use oil a lot (on the boat, always Hardwax) and I don't recognise the description of 'soft' or 'sticky' that some folk use when referring to an oiled finish. People that know nothing of wood finishes generally ask me "Did you spray this with lacquer?"

 

Tony

[Justme]

I don't recognise the description of 'soft' or 'sticky' that some folk use when referring to an oiled finish.

Tony

 

 

Thats cos they apply to much, dont wipe it off & reapply before the previous coat is dry & buffed off.

[WotEver]

Thats cos they apply to much, dont wipe it off & reapply before the previous coat is dry & buffed off.

Ahh yes, probably.

[JonL]

OIL SOAKED RAGS FIRE - it does happen

One Meridian Plaza was a 38-story high-rise office building in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States. The 492 feet (150 m) tower was designed by Vincent Kling & Associates and completed in 1972. The building was demolished in 1999 as a result of damage of a fire that began on February 23, 1991. The fire began on the 22nd floor after linseed oil soaked rags ignited a blaze that raged out of control for hours. Philadelphia firefighters fought the blaze, but struggled due to a lack of power in the skyscraper and insufficient water pressure from the building's standpipes. Three firefighters died in the twelve alarm fire after becoming disoriented by heavy smoke. Firefighting efforts inside One Meridian Plaza eventually were abandoned due to fears the structure would collapse. The fire was only brought under control once it reached the 30th floor which was one of the few floors that had automatic sprinklers installed. Ten sprinklers held back the fire until it started burning itself out and was finally brought under control almost a full day after it started. The blaze seriously damaged the building destroying eight floors and damaged neighboring buildings.

 

On February 23, 1991, at about 8:23 PM, a fire began on the 22nd floor of the building. It was a Saturday night and there were only three people in the building at the time, an engineer and two security guards.[1] Workers had been refinishing woodwork in a vacant office earlier in the day and workers left a pile of rags soaked in linseed oil on the floor. The linseed oil oxidized and generated enough heat to ignite the rags which then set fire to other solvents nearby.[10] Smoke detectors did not cover the entire floor and by the time the fire alarm went off the fire was already well established