Small Traders on the canals

[scrumpylurcher]

There are new proposals relating to trade licences under discussion with BW. There may be members here that are traders or are considering being traders, operating in a small way. There is an offer from BW to talk to concerned people at Braunston on the weekend of 25 - 26th June (Historic Boat Gathering weekend). The current proposals appear to change the licence cost for small roving traders from approx £30 +vat per annum to £130 + vat, this, certainly in my case, would make it uneconomical. Anybody who would like to take part in this should contact Susie Mercer - Susie.Mercer@britishwaterways.co.uk

who is the boating trade Manager - South and give a preferred time either Sat - PM or Sun - AM.

Nearer the time I will invite anybody who wishes to make a point but cant be present to pm me details which I will put to Susie at the meeting

[RichardH]

It could have been worse, they could have put you in the Business Licence category

[onionbargee]

As far as my experience goes the buisness licence is worth zero, no BW office will allow any small scale trading, though they will helpfully point you to somewhere no one ever goes and say your free to trade there, presumably to the cows in the feild !

 

Best option is just to do what you want and dont tell BW anything.

[Grace and Favour]

As far as my experience goes the buisness licence is worth zero, no BW office will allow any small scale trading, though they will helpfully point you to somewhere no one ever goes and say your free to trade there, presumably to the cows in the feild !

 

Best option is just to do what you want and dont tell BW anything.

 

Hmmm!

 

I see,- - - so whilst there are many rightly indignant and justified criticisms of BW's less than adequate (and sometimes mis-directed) fiscal support of our waterways - do you believe that advising boaters, and trading boaters at that, to avoid paying for their licence is going to help the situation?

[Donald Gilchrist]

At what point do you need a trading licence? Putting a for sale sine in the boat window? Selling a few things you no longer wont from your roof?

[luctor et emergo]

This is a contentious issue... I pay a small fortune for my trading licence, my trading insurance, and waste licence. Seeing other 'traders' not pay a jot, irks me at the best of times. To advise somebody to not bother with a trade licence, is pretty much the same as saying that you shouldn't bother with insurance either. And [expletive deleted] the consequences if you have an accident...

Edited March 19, 2011 by NB Alnwick
Inappropriate language

[bag 'o' bones]

I think whether you tell the authorities depends on what level of 'business' you get involved in. If its just selling one or two things on a casual basis - say as an off shoot of a hobby - then I imagine buying a licence for selling a few bits and pieces wouldn't actually be worth it. An example would be someone making jam for themselves and selling off the excess for a few beer tokens.

 

Of course if your business is your lively hood and your buying stuff from wholesalers to sell on then that sort of activity is a completely different kettle of fish then I suppose it is only right that the costs of the licence are factored in to what ever your selling.

 

What is a worry though is the cost of licensing putting folk off starting up a business in the first place. Same goes for the high street, I think there would be far more shops open if there wasn't so much expensive red tape.

[Grace and Favour]

snippity>>

What is a worry though is the cost of licensing putting folk off starting up a business in the first place. Same goes for the high street, I think there would be far more shops open if there wasn't so much expensive red tape.

 

I couldn't agree more - - however, the OP is suggesting that the increase in licence costs of £120 per annum (inc VAT) will make their business non-viable.

 

Dare I suggest that anyone in the position of operating their business where £2 per week is going to be the make or break figure - should seek to alter their approach to business, or close the business down . . . .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit for spelllling

Edited March 19, 2011 by Grace & Favour

[bag 'o' bones]

I couldn't agree more - - however, the OP is suggesting that the increase in licence costs of £120 per annum (inc VAT) will make their business non-viable.

 

Dare I suggest that anyone in the position of operating their business where £2 per week is going to be the make or break figure - should seek to alter their approach to business, or close the business down . . . .

 

 

 

 

 

You do have a point their to be fair. Which based on the OP first post makes we wonder whether their business is one of those 'semi-profesional'types rather than a proper business.

 

Hard to say maybe the OP could elaborate?

[scrumpylurcher]

I will try. I am retired and own a narrowboat, I am also a keen craftworker using mainly scrap hardwood. Any craftworker will tell you there is a limit on how much of your work you can pass on to friends and relations, and also the more you can practice your craft the better you become. Most of my work would still be done at home but assembly but final finishing could easily be done on the boat. I agree that it will never be a viable business "been there - done that", but BW do not really differentiate. I could easily ignore the regs and take a chance, frankly I dont feel I owe BW anything. But, I have made a lot of friends amongst the small traders on the canals and would consider it insulting to them to trade alongside them without a licence.

My usage will not increase, my insurance are happy to add a clause allowing me to operate at minimal cost.

To be honest I have not studied all the other lic rates, but IMHO the very small traders and small start up businesses are being made to suffer.

I enjoy meeting and talking to people as I travel the canals, the crafts just add another dimension to the experiance.

[ymu]

It might be a trivial increase, from the perspective of an income-generating business, but it's a massive hike, more than quadrupling the previous cost, and most of these traders are not making anything like a living from it.

 

What justification have they given for this? I can't believe the increase will make a noticeable difference to BW's coffers, especially when they will simply force some to stop trading altogether, or start trading illegally.

[onionbargee]

Hmmm!

 

I see,- - - so whilst there are many rightly indignant and justified criticisms of BW's less than adequate (and sometimes mis-directed) fiscal support of our waterways - do you believe that advising boaters, and trading boaters at that, to avoid paying for their licence is going to help the situation?

I never said anything about not paying your licence, i said the buisness licence will not help you to trade on a small scale, as BW are anti this.

 

I couldn't agree more - - however, the OP is suggesting that the increase in licence costs of £120 per annum (inc VAT) will make their business non-viable.

 

Dare I suggest that anyone in the position of operating their business where £2 per week is going to be the make or break figure - should seek to alter their approach to business, or close the business down . . . .

 

 

 

I never mentioned anything about costs in my op, i said that BW will make it impossible for you to trade on a small scale.

 

 

Edit for spelllling

[Robyn]

There is a website now established with British Waterways knowledge which traders are getting together to put our opinions to British Waterways. Unfortunately not all the traders that wanted to go to the forum meetings were able to due to transport issues therefore the meeting that the OP mentioned was suggested by Susie, and Susie asked Helen on the Cheeseboat 2 if we could post it on our traders website.

 

The website is www.canaltraders.org.uk (Roving Canal Traders Association)the problems that BW are saying that they currently have, is that they can not get in touch with all the traders for one reason or another and therefore not enough suggestion on the Trade/operators licence are reaching BW. Hence the reason between Helen & David on the Cheeseboat and us, Will and Michelle on the graphics Boat, the Roving Canal Traders Association was created. It is a free site and we have already got traders and BW staff registered on the site, so between all parties I hope we can get a solution that suit all.

 

Please feel free to take a look at the website and join, it is updated regularly and comments are always welcome.

 

Cheers Will

Edited March 19, 2011 by Robyn

[bag 'o' bones]

I will try. I am retired and own a narrowboat, I am also a keen craftworker using mainly scrap hardwood. Any craftworker will tell you there is a limit on how much of your work you can pass on to friends and relations, and also the more you can practice your craft the better you become. Most of my work would still be done at home but assembly but final finishing could easily be done on the boat. I agree that it will never be a viable business "been there - done that", but BW do not really differentiate. I could easily ignore the regs and take a chance, frankly I dont feel I owe BW anything. But, I have made a lot of friends amongst the small traders on the canals and would consider it insulting to them to trade alongside them without a licence.

My usage will not increase, my insurance are happy to add a clause allowing me to operate at minimal cost.

To be honest I have not studied all the other lic rates, but IMHO the very small traders and small start up businesses are being made to suffer.

I enjoy meeting and talking to people as I travel the canals, the crafts just add another dimension to the experiance.

 

So based on your description of your business it sounds that your are running a self financing 'hobby' business that you don't rely as an income par sae.

 

If this is the case then I suppose having to apply for a full trading licence would be detrimental.

 

Stuck between a rock and a hard pace springs to mind!

[Laurie Booth]

I think whether you tell the authorities depends on what level of 'business' you get involved in. If its just selling one or two things on a casual basis - say as an off shoot of a hobby - then I imagine buying a licence for selling a few bits and pieces wouldn't actually be worth it. An example would be someone making jam for themselves and selling off the excess for a few beer tokens.

 

Of course if your business is your lively hood and your buying stuff from wholesalers to sell on then that sort of activity is a completely different kettle of fish then I suppose it is only right that the costs of the licence are factored in to what ever your selling.

 

What is a worry though is the cost of licensing putting folk off starting up a business in the first place. Same goes for the high street, I think there would be far more shops open if there wasn't so much expensive red tape.

What stops people opening up shops is high rent and rates.

[bag 'o' bones]

What stops people opening up shops is high rent and rates.

 

and pubs. Hence why I don't run one anymore. I don't think folk realise just how many hidden costs there are just to open the door of a retail unit!

[Laurie Booth]

and pubs. Hence why I don't run one anymore. I don't think folk realise just how many hidden costs there are just to open the door of a retail unit!

I agree, pubs are one of the worst thing to be running.