Ice

[Stephen Sugg]

After last Saturday and my first ever experience of ice breaking, I was wondering if anyone had any interesting tales of doing the same, I loved it, was a bit nervous at first about the moored boats but it was fun!!

[curzons246]

Try doing it whiist theres a fishing match on. Every fisherman talks to you, wants to be your friend and is full of praise because youve sailed your boat straight through his pitch strange feeling i'll tell you.

 

Cheers Bill Liddle

[Stephen Sugg]

Try doing it whiist theres a fishing match on. Every fisherman talks to you, wants to be your friend and is full of praise because youve sailed your boat straight through his pitch strange feeling i'll tell you.

 

Cheers Bill Liddle

 

 

That's solved a mystery, I couldn't figure out why all the fishermen were so friendly last weekend, now I know.....

[GRPCruiserman]

I suggest you be careful past GRP boats moored as the ice will pierce the hull and you will sink them!

 

It was interesting last Saturday night, however, as the canal was only frozen at the edge on Saturday day, then we watched it freeze across the canal towards us once darkness fell. I woke up at 3am and it was right across. The stove was still warm though!! The boat had gone a bit colder by morning, but not uncomfortably so. Who says GRP boats cannot be used in winter!!!

 

[Webchem]

I suggest you be careful past GRP boats moored as the ice will pierce the hull and you will sink them!

 

 

Thats a shame!!!

 

[nigel carton]

Thats a shame!!!

 

Incoming!

[bottle]

Incoming!

 

 

Nah! plastic boaters have a good sense of humour.........................................They must have to own one

[Richard Bustens]

Who would be responsible if someone did sink one through traveling in ice?

[Breals]

That thought ran through my mind last Saturday, as I passed a nod- ahem, GRP cruiser at an icy Dunhamsptead. Needless to say I passed very slowly and cautiously.

 

I don't think anyone could hold you liable if you take great care as you pass.

 

Got stuck in the ice at Tibberton, it just got too thick and the boat wouldn't go in a straight line. Had to walk the rest of the way to the match at Sixways. Not looking forward to reblacking my freshly exposed bottom (at the bows where the ice has ground the paint off).

Edited February 15, 2006 by Breals

[Supermalc]

After last Saturday and my first ever experience of ice breaking, I was wondering if anyone had any interesting tales of doing the same!!

 

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/malcsworld/bo...ting-eight.html

 

Yes.....about half way down the page.

 

From this experience I leant what to do in a crisis.

[Keeping Up]

Breaking our way through ice a few winters ago, we approached a couple of swans who were swimming around in a small area that was being kept clear by their efforts. They occasionally tried, and failed, to climb out onto the ice.

 

We aimed to pass them but, as we pushed the sheets of ice around, there was a clear risk that we would close up their little space; we had visions of chopping their legs off if we proceeded (and judging by their agitated state, so did the swans). So we backed off and thought for a while, then changed course alightly and headed directly towards them despite their increasing alarm. This broke a passage through the ice to them, pushing the sheets of ice away and widening their swimming area. Then we backed off, and went along our original course again; the swans meanwhile swam back along their escape route to follow our cleared wake until we saw them no more. They didn't even stop to say thenk you.

 

Allan

[Richard Fairhurst]

I suggest you be careful past GRP boats moored as the ice will pierce the hull and you will sink them!

 

and wooden boats... we've just got a nasty leak behind one of the knees in ours caused by ice.

 

Richard

[GRPCruiserman]

Who would be responsible if someone did sink one through traveling in ice?

 

Having worked in insurance for many years (thankfully not any more!!), it would be down to whose fault it was.

 

If a steel boat hit a submerged boathook that they had not seen and pushed the other end through the hull of another's boat, it would be difficult to hold the striking boat responsible. In the other extreme, if a boat is cruising past some moored boats and the steerer leaves his/her post to go and make a cup off tea and hits a moored boat, then they would be negligent.

 

In the middle of these two, there are many scenarios, if the person isn't very good at steering, or if they misjudge a gap, etc etc etc.

 

In the question of ice, if the canal is solid with ice and the steerer decides they will plod on cutting through the ice completely disregarding the possibility of punturing a GRP hull that is moored, then they could be considered negligent as the situation could be avoided. If they come round a corner after traveling some distance with minimal ice and suddenly encounter a sheet across the canal which they cannot avoid as they could not stop in time etc, and the ice then punctures someones hull, it is not really their fault, but as the travelling boat, their insurance may still pay up. That would be for the two insurers (and insureds with regards to excesses etc) to sort out between themselves, possibly through the courts.

 

As long as the traveling boat has taken every precaution to prevent damage to other people's boats, then their insurance will pay. A deliberate act would not be covered. The situation with regards to knowledge of whether damage may be covered by their actions when they are unaware that the damage may occur would probably still be paid out on, but that is up to the individual insurance company and their claims department.

 

This all assumes that both parties know what occured and how it occured and who caused it, of course.

 

For my own part, I would always hold comprehensive insurance, not just third party, as who knows what might happen.

Edited February 15, 2006 by GRPCruiserman

[Richard Bustens]

Interesting GRP Cruserman

 

Could it not also be said ..... that the grp cruser owner is being negligent leaving his boat in the water, knowing it may freeze and someone passing may cut this boat in half....

[Noah]

I heard that there was a successful claim for ice damage against a narrowboat skipper (or his insurance company) on the L&L in Lancashire several years ago. Not by a GRP boat owner, but by the owner of a moored steel narrowboat who had just had his hull blacked! I assume that the "guilty" boater would have had to pay any insurance excess. Seems ridiculous if there any truth in this tale but as mine's soon out for blacking, should I be taking passing boat numbers for a couple of weeks if there is any ice?!

 

Noah

[Breals]

I was thinking the same as Richard. You can't expect Liveaboards to stop cruising just because of a bit of ice - when they need to top up water, pump out etc. It's not really fair to ask them to wait days or weeks to pass a GRP boat!

 

successful claim for ice damage against a narrowboat skipper

 

I can see GRP Cruiserman's point, but that's just plain ridiculous!

Edited February 15, 2006 by Breals

[Noah]

Another thought: how long does bitumastic take to harden off in the water before it's able to withstand (thin) ice whilst cruising? The boat will be put back in the canal the day after the second, and final, coat. Should I moor carefully in one place for a few days, whether of not there is any ice?

 

Noah

[Breals]

Ice has worn mine off at water level near the bows, and it was blacked months ago. Surprisingly abrasive stuff, ice.

Edited February 15, 2006 by Breals

[Smelly]

i'd not heard about the claim due to the hull blacking, but did see the result of a trip boat being a bit careless up that way a couple of years ago. ruddy great gash in the bow of a GRP craft... scary!

[bottle]

Another thought: how long does bitumastic take to harden off in the water before it's able to withstand (thin) ice whilst cruising? The boat will be put back in the canal the day after the second, and final, coat. Should I moor carefully in one place for a few days, whether of not there is any ice?

 

Noah

 

Titanic

[Pat]

Interesting GRP Cruserman

 

Could it not also be said ..... that the grp cruser owner is being negligent leaving his boat in the water, knowing it may freeze and someone passing may cut this boat in half....

 

I bet my mighty GRP home can take at least as much ice as your skinny little narrowboats. I challenge you all to an ice-off! ....actually.... maybe not. We rarely get thick ice in London, but if you do happen to cruise past me on a frosty morning... slow down! I've tried posting a picture of the mighty Lulama, but never done this before so hope it works.

[/img]

 

I bet my mighty GRP home can take at least as much ice as your skinny little narrowboats. I challenge you all to an ice-off! ....actually.... maybe not. We rarely get thick ice in London, but if you do happen to cruise past me on a frosty morning... slow down! I've tried posting a picture of the mighty Lulama, but never done this before so hope it works.

[/img]

 

Crap. That didn't do it. I'm rubbish at this.

 

I bet my mighty GRP home can take at least as much ice as your skinny little narrowboats. I challenge you all to an ice-off! ....actually.... maybe not. We rarely get thick ice in London, but if you do happen to cruise past me on a frosty morning... slow down! I've tried posting a picture of the mighty Lulama, but never done this before so hope it works.

[/img]

Crap. That didn't do it. I'm rubbish at this.

Ok. One more try:

 

 

I bet my mighty GRP home can take at least as much ice as your skinny little narrowboats. I challenge you all to an ice-off! ....actually.... maybe not. We rarely get thick ice in London, but if you do happen to cruise past me on a frosty morning... slow down! I've tried posting a picture of the mighty Lulama, but never done this before so hope it works.

[/img]

Crap. That didn't do it. I'm rubbish at this.

Ok. One more try:

 

 

Yey! I did it. Thanks to Supermalcs great instructions. Anyway. If you see this boat, don't go past at full speed if its icy.....

[DHutch]

Another thought: how long does bitumastic take to harden off in the water before it's able to withstand (thin) ice whilst cruising?

I dont think blacking of any thought would ever withstand any crusing in ice to be honest.

- Ice is very hard stuff.

[MikeFarmer]

That thought ran through my mind last Saturday, as I passed a nod- ahem, GRP cruiser at an icy Dunhamsptead. Needless to say I passed very slowly and cautiously.

 

I don't think anyone could hold you liable if you take great care as you pass.

 

 

 

If you cause damage to a boat when you are moving and the other boat is stationary, then you most definitely could be liable... why would you think otherwise? It is a big responsibility piloting a boat, and if you get it wrong to the extent that you cause other people financial harm then you must pay.. just as you would expect compensation if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

Equally, needing to take on water etc as mentioned in another post, seems a good reason to have to move through ice, but no justification whatsoever if it means putting another craft at risk.

 

Cars share roads with bicycles, walkers share pavements with joggers, narrowboats share waterways with grp boats.... whats the big deal?

[Stephen Sugg]

If you cause damage to a boat when you are moving and the other boat is stationary, then you most definitely could be liable... why would you think otherwise? It is a big responsibility piloting a boat, and if you get it wrong to the extent that you cause other people financial harm then you must pay.. just as you would expect compensation if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

Equally, needing to take on water etc as mentioned in another post, seems a good reason to have to move through ice, but no justification whatsoever if it means putting another craft at risk.

 

Cars share roads with bicycles, walkers share pavements with joggers, narrowboats share waterways with grp boats.... whats the big deal?

 

This is why i was a bit nervous on saturday, only saw a couple of GRP's though. Something I hadn't thought of until it happened was the way that ice can throw you off course quite easily (in my case into the right hand side of a left handed bend, much to the amusement of a couple of fishermen!)

[Hairy-Neil]

....... as I passed a nod- ahem, GRP cruiser at an icy Dunhamsptead.

 

 

 

Read the book again....... Quiet Waters By, David Blagrove (chapter 6 page 119)

 

The term Noddy Boater was was coined to label those owners of large, immaculately kept boats, "betraying a somewhat querulous, over protective attitude to their craft" ..........

 

With few exceptions the vast majority of canal based GRP cruisers are to my mind the antithesis of this.

Edited February 16, 2006 by Hairy-Neil