Buying a Boat with a Mooring

[wrigglefingers]

I'm thinking about buying a boat with a guaranteed marina mooring (Marina owner has confirmed it). So how much of a premium should I be paying on the price of the boat (if at all)?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks, Jill

[John Orentas]

I'm thinking about buying a boat with a guaranteed marina mooring (Marina owner has confirmed it). So how much of a premium should I be paying on the price of the boat (if at all)?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks, Jill

 

 

Hi Jill.

 

I don't think you could really see things in those terms, it may well make selling a boat a little easier and buying one more attractive but no more than that.

 

In fact I will soon be selling my boat in similar circumstances, my attractive marina mooring will no doubt help the sale but not add to the price. (otherwise my marina owner may want a cut)

[Bones]

I'm thinking about buying a boat with a guaranteed marina mooring (Marina owner has confirmed it). So how much of a premium should I be paying on the price of the boat (if at all)?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks, Jill

 

Personally I wouldn't pay above the odds for the boat. However, if you would say give an extra on off payment of xpounds in order to have a spot at that marina, then I might consider it. I think the thing to do is decide how much the boat is worth, and then regard whatever is extra as having a mooring spot. Of course, you have to bear in mind that most (I think!) Marina contracts are for a year so check out renewability, but even so you might think it is worth it.

 

Some places its easy peasy to get a mooring, others are a nightmare.

[Paula]

I don't really think it should cost more, after all you are going to be giving the marina a years mooring fees. They are just making sure that they get more money.

 

I suppose if there are not many moorings, you may pay a little more.

 

Paula XX

[anhar]

Hi Jill

 

I think any premium for a marina berth depends on the supply and demand for such moorings in the area and how much you wish to be in that particular marina. If they are readily available then no real premium is justifiable. However if they are hard to find then this may well likely create some sort of additional cost. I'm in London and a mooring on the Regents Canal would cost a great deal of money. So virtual hulks change hands for telephone numbers. Hard to give a general figure though for round the country.

 

Incidentally several marinas in which I've looked will charge for a change of ownership of a mooring because the selling boater has no right to pass it on. £500 was mentioned to me in one particular case of an overpriced Ledgard barge style boat I looked at up north somewhere.

 

regards

Steve

[DHutch]

I think any premium for a marina berth depends on the supply and demand for such moorings in the area and how much you wish to be in that particular marina.

Yeah, thats just what i was going to say.

- If you dont want to keep there, or if there readly avalable, its worth nothing/little. Depending on when its due fro renewal.

 

In most areas, you can find a mooring if/when you want one.

- You often have to ring round a few places, but you should find somthing.

 

 

Daniel

[gringogordo]

I agree that it shouldn't affect the value even if the owner thinkds it should. Even in really tricky place there tend to be moorings, I found one in Bath and TomAndSophie found one and so on. I think the problems of finding a mooring are somewhat overstated at both ends (by people who aren't prepared to hussle and rough it a bit for a while and by people who don't want to pay for one but aren't really constant cruisers).

 

In other words if you spend a while looking around you will probably find a mooring in the end (unless its central London maybe) and so the value of the mooring then is only what you are prepared to pay to save some effort. If there really aren't any moorings at all (some parts of London ? I have no experience of this) then I guess it does have some value after all...

[anhar]

I agree that it shouldn't affect the value even if the owner thinkds it should. Even in really tricky place there tend to be moorings, I found one in Bath and TomAndSophie found one and so on. I think the problems of finding a mooring are somewhat overstated at both ends (by people who aren't prepared to hussle and rough it a bit for a while and by people who don't want to pay for one but aren't really constant cruisers).

 

In other words if you spend a while looking around you will probably find a mooring in the end (unless its central London maybe) and so the value of the mooring then is only what you are prepared to pay to save some effort. If there really aren't any moorings at all (some parts of London ? I have no experience of this) then I guess it does have some value after all...

Hello gringordo

 

Jill's original query was about a proper marina mooring, not any old cutside spot. Many boaters prefer the former because of security, facilities and so on. Incidentally I don't think London suburbs are the worst places to find marinas. It's just that they cost. I know of at least two with spaces not too far from me, but they cost around £2,500pa for a 57' and that does not permit liveaboards, only "leisure" use. I would guess that the Midlands is possibly the hardest place to find a marina, that being the prime canal region of the country.

 

Clearly if you're prepared to moor anywhere than this widens the choice but as I say many are not prepared to do that.

 

regards

Steve

[Pat]

It does depend on the region and if you want to live aboard. Even in London places like Brentford Dock marina usually have a few moorings available, but it's the residential moorings you pay a premium for. A boat on a fully residential mooring is worth about £15 grand more than its actual value. In places like Little Venice or Islington it can be even higher.

[wrigglefingers]

Hi Folks

 

Thanks for your thoughts. We're based in Bath and have really struggled to find a suitable mooring. We do want to liveaboard and we don't want to bridge-hop like many round here (but let's not start that one again!) so we need a marina mooring. That means buying a boat in a marina because none have vacancies. No surprise there either. It's just that prices seem a little high and I'm trying to work out what my offer on a boat might be, if at all (subject to the survey of course!).

 

Still plodding on .......

 

Jill

[nbtafelberg]

Hi Jill

 

I would definilty suggest checking with the Marina. It may be part of their terms and conditions that the mooring is not transferable on sale of the boat! Also how much of the mooring has been paid for already for the year.

 

You may move on to the boat finding you have to back pay the mooring fees for the beginning of the year so it might not be a bargain!

 

If you were talking about a residential mooring with a shed and garden that is worth a premium but a mooring in a marina... probably a pontoon mooring at that - these are ok for holiday boats but have you ever tried to clean your boat standing on the gunnels or do ANY maintenance work?

[gringogordo]

Hi Folks

 

Thanks for your thoughts. We're based in Bath and have really struggled to find a suitable mooring. We do want to liveaboard and we don't want to bridge-hop like many round here (but let's not start that one again!) so we need a marina mooring. That means buying a boat in a marina because none have vacancies. No surprise there either. It's just that prices seem a little high and I'm trying to work out what my offer on a boat might be, if at all (subject to the survey of course!).

 

Still plodding on .......

 

Jill

 

 

The Midlands Anhar ? Maybe canal territory but surely the tricky place are the places where people actually want to be !!! (joke)

 

Jill have you got as boat already? I'm in Bath Marina (Newbridge) and have (finally) got a canalside mooring. I should be moving out of there in a couple of weeks (but mines a 36' er and they may not have room for bigger). Its not up to me and there my be an official waiting list but it may be a right place right time situation so let me know if you think I can help - I'm hoping to move the boat (assuming it still works I've had no time to look at it properly for months!) on Sunday 6th Feb although I haven't really talked in exact terms with the marina yet.

 

Also although I have nothing but good things to say about the marina in Newbridge I would say that having lived on the towpath and in a marina it is much better to live on the towpath in my opinion. Other than cost of living I don't see the point, personally, in living in a marina unless you are cruising a lot (in which case you have to get your systems up to scratch anyway) - you lose all the benefits of being on a boat in the first place (I lived on both but am now in a house). I would seriously advise you to think about looking for a towpath mooring(which doesn't equate to bridge hopping)... But obviously this is just a personal point of view and I guess others will say its worth losing the views and sense of freedom for the security, constant electricity and shower block. but.... I'll stop now... but let me know if you want me to put a word in for you with Bath Marina (like I say its not my call at all though)

[John Orentas]

Jill

 

This theme is a recurrent one on the forum, there seems to be common attitude with both BW and the private marinas that when asked for moorings the instinctively reply that there are non available, they are even reluctant to put you on the waiting list. I think they get a lot of 'Tyre kickers' and general time wasters, if you are persistent they will eventually realise that yours is a serious enquiry.

 

Try to get the names of the individual mooring officers at BW and owners of the marinas and speak to them directly (members of the forum will help with that) also travel to the places you are interested in by boat or car, speak to the moorers and owners and get a feel for how many spaces are unoccupied. There will be quite a lot.

[GRPCruiserman]

This really annoys me; you are buying a boat, not the marina berth!! I have a jetty on a farm for which I pay a yearly fee to access. If I decide to go elsewhere one year, then I stop paying and the farmer will let it to someone else, it has no monitary value in itself to me. The boat I have on the mooring is now the fourth boat I have had on my mooring. This is the way it should be. Just because the boat is where it is, doesn't mean it is worth any more.

 

There are marinas I know of that charge you the equivalent of commision if you are on the marina and you wish to buy a new boat elsewhere and put it on your same mooring in that marina!

 

If you equate this situation to lease hold houses, then most people wont buy a house on leasehold unless you have at least a 99 year lease, I'd like to see that in your local marina!!

 

The difference is where you actually buy the strip of land that your boat will be moored to, THEN you should expect to pay more.

 

Moorings are rented, boats are owned, the two costs should not be linked. Even on The Lancaster Canal, where moorings are rare, they can still be found, my advice is if someone is charging more because it's got a mooring, and you will not have any title on that mooring, then walk away and buy another boat, or make your offer based on the value of the boat, making it clear that you will not pay extra for a mooring fromwhich you could be evicted at any time, if not after possibley less than twelve months.

 

Happy hunting!!

[Pirate]

Have you seen moorings abroad offered for sale in places such as Majorca or or mainland Spain they are Like £70,000 then you pay the rental, and then only for a limited number of years.

 

I know its not on the canals but it does prove moorings are valuable assets.

[GRPCruiserman]

Have you seen moorings abroad offered for sale in places such as Majorca or or mainland Spain they are Like £70,000 then you pay the rental, and then only for a limited number of years.

 

I know its not on the canals but it does prove moorings are valuable assets.

 

I would presume there would be a lease attached to these moorings? Otherwise, I would not even entertain them, you are paying just to 'get in'.

 

I have no doubt this occurs in some marinas, in fact as I said earlier, I know it does, but it doesn't mean it is right, or that I agree with it, be it right or wrong. In my opinion it is wrong, for what my opinion is worth.

[anhar]

I would presume there would be a lease attached to these moorings? Otherwise, I would not even entertain them, you are paying just to 'get in'.

 

I have no doubt this occurs in some marinas, in fact as I said earlier, I know it does, but it doesn't mean it is right, or that I agree with it, be it right or wrong. In my opinion it is wrong, for what my opinion is worth.

Hello GRPC

 

Right or wrong doesn't come into it because these things arise from supply and demand. It's just business, there's no crime being committed. If there is a shortage of liveaboard marina moorings then almost inevitably people selling boats on such a mooring will start to ask for money and buyers who wish to be there will have to pay.

 

If on the other hand the balance of supply and demand goes the other way then such premiums will disappear. It's just life mate and it is neither right nor wrong.

 

If say there was a sudden undersupplied demand for plastic boats and the price of yours rose dramatically and you were selling, would you consider it "wrong" to obtain the higher price and take advantage of the shortage? Of course not.

 

Prices of items can only be considered in moralistic terms of right or wrong when they apply to the basics of life such as quintessential foodstuffs. But boating is an utter luxury.

 

regards

Steve

Edited January 26, 2006 by anhar

[gaggle]

i cant understand why anybody would want to be in a marina chocked with boats more or less on top of one another.

the ones i have seen have lists stating none of this none of that and i may be wrong but canal crime i read about seems to happen more at marina,s than out on the line.

i met one couple who had come out of their marina because they felt"it became like a caravan existence".they had come out and were spending time moored near to the lock in order to meet the people on other boats while helping them through the locks.

marina life they felt had cut them off somewhat from the reasons they went on the cut for in the first place.

i certainly get the chance to say hello to anyone that passes my way and if i was in a marina would miss all that passed by.

[gringogordo]

If say there was a sudden undersupplied demand for plastic boats and the price of yours rose dramatically and you were selling, would you consider it "wrong" to obtain the higher price and take advantage of the shortage? Of course not.

 

 

 

A shortage of plastic boats ? Surely not

[John Orentas]

I moor in a marina, not as a live-aboard but the principle remains the same, there are a few strictly enforced rules.

 

1. No items to be left on the banks or pontoons.

2. Dogs must not be allowed to run free.

3. Dog mess must be cleared up.

4. The outer gate must be kept lock after dark

5. No residential mooring though there is no restriction for leisure boats.

6. Do not drive or park on the grass verges.

 

The marina is kept immaculately by the owner and I fully support every one the above 'rules'.

 

I find that in life generally the people who don't want rules are the ones that have undisciplined dogs and children, they will pile junk, rubbish and kids bikes all over the towpath and park their cars on lawns that someone goes to the trouble of keeping mowed. Give me rules any day.

[GRPCruiserman]

Hello GRPC

 

Right or wrong doesn't come into it because these things arise from supply and demand. It's just business, there's no crime being committed. If there is a shortage of liveaboard marina moorings then almost inevitably people selling boats on such a mooring will start to ask for money and buyers who wish to be there will have to pay.

 

If on the other hand the balance of supply and demand goes the other way then such premiums will disappear. It's just life mate and it is neither right nor wrong.

 

If say there was a sudden undersupplied demand for plastic boats and the price of yours rose dramatically and you were selling, would you consider it "wrong" to obtain the higher price and take advantage of the shortage? Of course not.

 

Prices of items can only be considered in moralistic terms of right or wrong when they apply to the basics of life such as quintessential foodstuffs. But boating is an utter luxury.

 

regards

Steve

 

 

I take on board what you say, and in the overall scheme of things, I suppose 'wrong' is a strong word, perhaps too strong, as to allow people to starve would be wrong, whereas to charge someone when the market forces dictate that you can is perhaps, business. Perhaps I should have said that as I am on a low income, if it were universal, it could cause me problems. I suppose if people are prepared to pay, then that's up to them. If I were to change my boat, I would not be happy if I had to pay to put it on my mooring, but I suppose it does not necessarily make it 'wrong'.

 

I don't think there will be a sudden upsurge in plastic boat demand, but I don't intend to change it at any time as I couldn't afford a bigger one, with the exception of moving on to live on a boat where would want something bigger, but you are right, I would not object to selling it for more than I paid, but boats usually go up in value anyway.

 

The reason this kind of thing does annoy me is that it adds to the expense of boating, and I haven't much money spare, but I suppose each budget the chancellor must upset a lot more people who smoke cigarettes and who spend a lot more on them than I spend on boating.

 

I believe that boating should not be an utter luxury, and should be within the reach of ordinary working people such as myself. It was GRP boats that brought the cost of a boat down to earth in the 60s and 70s, and the trend towards bespoke constructed steel boats is reversing this. I feel that steel boats have much in common with the wooden boats of pre-GRP, ie bespoke construction, regular maintainance, and the cost of construction. This is, I suppose it could be argued, again due to market forces, but I believe that a lack of information with regards to the availability and cheap running costs of GRP boats enforces this.

 

Your words, however, do not attract any reasoned argument, and my words could be my hope that my boat does not become and 'utter luxury' that becomes beyond my financial abilities.

[gringogordo]

I moor in a marina, not as a live-aboard but the principle remains the same, there are a few strictly enforced rules.

 

1. No items to be left on the banks or pontoons.

2. Dogs must not be allowed to run free.

3. Dog mess must be cleared up.

4. The outer gate must be kept lock after dark

5. No residential mooring though there is no restriction for leisure boats.

6. Do not drive or park on the grass verges.

 

The marina is kept immaculately by the owner and I fully support every one the above 'rules'.

 

I find that in life generally the people who don't want rules are the ones that have undisciplined dogs and children, they will pile junk, rubbish and kids bikes all over the towpath and park their cars on lawns that someone goes to the trouble of keeping mowed. Give me rules any day.

 

I was (until about a month ago) living in a marina and I lived in different one a couple of years ago. I never had a problem with any rules there I don't think. For me its more about the surrounings and I don't think this matters as much if you're not a liveaboard as when you go to it you are either going cruising or doing work (in which case the facilities are very useful). As a liveaboard though I felt it turned the experience of living on a boat from something very pleasant to an experience of living in reduced space and conditions. But there were lots of other people living there who didn't seem to feel this so...!

[GRPCruiserman]

I prefer to moor where one or two people live on their boats as this adds to the security of the situation.

 

Wher I moor there are some 'unwritten' rules, but everything seems fair, perhaps that's why I stay there.

 

I agree with the dog rules, but the items not to be left on pontoons seems a bit harsh, perhaps they are narrow??

 

Parking on grass can kill the grass, especially if you are away for a couple of weeks or so.