Families on boats with kids

[nbtafelberg]

Dear All

 

I have a story to tell and then an idea so bear with me.

 

As many of you know I live on my boat with my wife and 2 kids, we are happy and clean and our boat is spotless thanks to my wifes continued hard work (and some of mine). Both my children were premature. (2 and 6 now) they are smaller than normal children of that age. When we moved to Cowley we had a surprise visit from a social worker + the school nurse one evening when we were having a take away, not something we do normally. The report put in said that our family lived on take aways because the kitchen was too small to cook in! (this is ofcourse completely untrue, my children actually live on fresh fruit and vegatables 99% of the time, carrots and oranges being a favorite!).

 

Last week we received a letter from social services saying that we had a meeting on the 15th of November, the letter was dated the 7th December, I tried to call the people but didn't get a call back till the morning of the 15th of December only to find we had to be in a meeting because my 1st daughter had been off sick "too much" from school. We think the move up here upset her "system" and she has settled down since.

 

So as a result of that meeting, yesterday the social worker and health visitor turn up. The social worker told my wife the boat was "too Narrow" and borrowed my wifes phone only to walk off with it and leave her own diary (which I'm sure contained confidential information) behind, she put her car in a residential mooring carpark that was promptly locked by one of the moorees (who I think recognised her). She then took my wife and kids to 4 doctors to try and get us registered, as usual they are all full.

 

So now my kids are tired, and so is my wife - but it's not all over yet. Because in the afternoon we had to take the poor tired kids to a doctors appointment at the hospital at 3:40 which actually happened at 4:00 pm we left there about 5:00 pm. I returned from work about 2:30. My wife has written down an account of what took place.

 

Jemimah, my 2 year old got in had something to eat and just collapsed on the sofa and went straight to sleep.

 

We felt pretty alone actually. From start to finish pushed around.

 

I have the following comments;

 

1. Am I right in thinking that comments like "The boat is too narrow" (despite the fact its 70 feet long) is in breach of the European convention on human rights Quoted here (Article 8) see http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html

 

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

 

2. I think it's time there was some sort of organisation to support families living on boats. These would provide education to Social Services and others rather than having them find out by arriving suddenly to check out some poor persons boat.

 

I would be willing to start such an organisation if anyone else is ready to "come aboard". I know the RBOA are out there but apart from getting a monthly newsletter I'm not sure they do anything. I would see the organisations role much more actually bringing families who live on boats together for social events in their local areas and showing that we are a united community. For instance if this had happened to a member they could call us and we could be there or at least be around to give advice on surviving a visit from the social services.

 

Your thoughts please.

Edited December 22, 2005 by clevett

[Guest]

We are not in a similar position our kids being grown up now. However from your description of events I think you are being treated apallingly-even victimized. I know of kids living in terrible conditions on dry land and none of these people go near them. I think MP and Euro MP spring to mind. Good luck with your cause.

[dor]

Write immediately to your MP (I hope you have a proper one, not a career politician).

 

Sound out a sympathetic journalist on the local paper (but make sure they are genuinely sympathetic - go by other peole's references - or you may get stitched up).

 

Write again to your MP if you haven't had a reply in seven days.

 

Find a doctor who will check over your kids so you can get a positive medical reference if they try anything.

 

Does your MP hold constituency surgeries regularly? if so go to one and speak to them in person.

 

I think Social Services are a bit under the spotlight at the moment - works both ways. They are being criticised for being too interfering, and also for not taking enough action. In fairness, they have a very difficult job as they are very open to criticism; doesn't matter what they do, someone will say it is too much or too little.

[Guest]

All good point from DOR. Would add local radio and TV involvement.

[nbtafelberg]

The problem I have with all that is we feel really vunerable at the moment.

 

Put it like this - our wish for Christmas is they go away.

[Sir Nibble]

There are huge numbers of people less responsible than you living with their kids in narrowboats without licences etc. BW are unable to section 8 them because social services are unable (or unwilling) to provide alternative arrangements to accomodate the children. Your social worker should think through the implications for social services departments nationwide of obtaining a ruling that a narrowboat is unsuitable to house children, Bath social services would lynch her!

My wife has a MA in social work but will not work in social services, refusing to collude in the pretence that social services departments are other than a career structure for (middle class) bleeding hearts, expending vulnerable people to save their "at risk" budget. Try looking up travellers organisations, you have common cause with them here. Like I say this social worker needs to think this through, does she think that having every livaboard and travelling child dumped on social services will get her an OBE?

[nbtafelberg]

Agreed

 

I think a lot of it is educating social services about living on boats and showing them that it is a safe cause. In fact I am considering putting together a course and running it next year for social services just to try and sort out their heads.

[Carrie]

I agree totally with Catweasel. It does sound like harrassment to me. I'd definitely contact my MP and inform social services that you are doing so.

MP's are pretty useless, but it's a public move and puts YOU in the offensive, rather than the horrible situation of feeling you have to defend your lifestyle.

 

I think your idea of running a course is fantastic, Paul. Best wishes to you and your family.x

[Richard Bustens]

There is a family 3 down from me with 2 children about 10 years old in a 40' boat trying to do a refit as they live on it, god only knows how they are managing, and a dog as well.

 

But the kids seem happy and well looked after, i always see them going to church on sunday morning.

[nbtafelberg]

Yes

 

These are exactly the people that need to group together with us.

 

If they've not been on the boat long it will not be long before Social Services catch up with them.

[dor]

MP's are pretty useless,

 

I disagree with that. As I pointed out before, it depends on whether the MP does their job as an MP or whether they are career politicians.

 

Our local (Crewe & Nantwich) MP is one of the best constituency MPs in the country. Even the one to the North of us (where my Office is ) isn't too bad, and he's a tory.

[Richard Bustens]

Well Dor, ill grant you one thing GD has a mouth on her, i dont think she does a lot of good but you know she is doing it.

[Breals]

"The boat is too narrow"

 

Typical narrow-minded (pardon the pun) ignorance.

 

I wonder if the RBOA would be able to provide any assistance?

 

Best of luck and best wishes for Christmas.

Edited December 22, 2005 by Breals

[nbtafelberg]

I'm not sure the RBOA would be interested.

 

WE are members but I don't think they get involved in individual cases.

[Catrin]

Sorry to hear of your difficulties, considering the appalling conditions so many people live in then it is ridiculous that they are wasting time on you.

My local authority has some kind of traveller liaison and education department (there is a large traveller site on the edge of town) - we get currently get a representative into my school on a weekly basis to offer advice to staff about teaching traveller children, and to help to dispel some of the misconceptions. As your home is mobile, would you come under the remit of such a department? Is it worth seeing if you have one locally, and whether or not they can give you some support?

[Breals]

Paul, my stepmother is a senior social worker and a lecturer in social work. If you wanted to send me any details of what took place I would be happy to get some informal advice from her, as to how to deal with this problem and the rights and wrongs of how you have been dealt with. I won't feel snubbed if you pass on this, but the offers ther.

Edited December 22, 2005 by Breals

[Denis R]

Paul, this is a distressing tale. I'm a member of the RBOA too and am sure that the organisation would take an interest in the subject matter at least, and hopefully your case in particular. I'm more than willing to engage with the RBOA to raise the profile of this issue and get it onto the agenda, and I'm sure if other RBOA members on this forum did the same, things might happen?

[nbtafelberg]

Thanks for your messages I will respond later on to you via PM

[Cris P]

Contact Friends, Families and Travellers, who are a very useful organisation for travellers of every variety

 

http://www.gypsy-traveller.org/

 

Lets stick together, good luck !

[Smelly]

Dear All

 

I have a story to tell and then an idea so bear with me.

 

As many of you know I live on my boat with my wife and 2 kids, we are happy and clean and our boat is spotless thanks to my wifes continued hard work (and some of mine). Both my children were premature. (2 and 6 now) they are smaller than normal children of that age. When we moved to Cowley we had a surprise visit from a social worker + the school nurse one evening when we were having a take away, not something we do normally. The report put in said that our family lived on take aways because the kitchen was too small to cook in! (this is ofcourse completely untrue, my children actually live on fresh fruit and vegatables 99% of the time, carrots and oranges being a favorite!).

 

Last week we received a letter from social services saying that we had a meeting on the 15th of November, the letter was dated the 7th December, I tried to call the people but didn't get a call back till the morning of the 15th of December only to find we had to be in a meeting because my 1st daughter had been off sick "too much" from school. We think the move up here upset her "system" and she has settled down since.

 

So as a result of that meeting, yesterday the social worker and health visitor turn up. The social worker told my wife the boat was "too Narrow" and borrowed my wifes phone only to walk off with it and leave her own diary (which I'm sure contained confidential information) behind, she put her car in a residential mooring carpark that was promptly locked by one of the moorees (who I think recognised her). She then took my wife and kids to 4 doctors to try and get us registered, as usual they are all full.

 

So now my kids are tired, and so is my wife - but it's not all over yet. Because in the afternoon we had to take the poor tired kids to a doctors appointment at the hospital at 3:40 which actually happened at 4:00 pm we left there about 5:00 pm. I returned from work about 2:30. My wife has written down an account of what took place.

 

Jemimah, my 2 year old got in had something to eat and just collapsed on the sofa and went straight to sleep.

 

We felt pretty alone actually. From start to finish pushed around.

 

I have the following comments;

 

1. Am I right in thinking that comments like "The boat is too narrow" (despite the fact its 70 feet long) is in breach of the European convention on human rights Quoted here (Article 8) see http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html

 

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

 

2. I think it's time there was some sort of organisation to support families living on boats. These would provide education to Social Services and others rather than having them find out by arriving suddenly to check out some poor persons boat.

 

I would be willing to start such an organisation if anyone else is ready to "come aboard". I know the RBOA are out there but apart from getting a monthly newsletter I'm not sure they do anything. I would see the organisations role much more actually bringing families who live on boats together for social events in their local areas and showing that we are a united community. For instance if this had happened to a member they could call us and we could be there or at least be around to give advice on surviving a visit from the social services.

 

Your thoughts please.

 

 

Before you start waving the ECHR around, you need to show that the current UK legislation is in breach of it, the Human Rights Act doesn't impose it's own rules, it just tries to make sure that the existing rules are compliant with the convention rights. It is a creature that evolves over time as individual sections of legislation fall to be reviewed. It works on a kind of compare and contrast principle.

 

If you can find out what legislation they're making their rulings under (Breals below might be able to help you, (very possibly the '77 Childrens Act) then check what powers they have and from there compare and contrast.

 

Or you can get direct advice if you have a look at www.clsdirect.org.uk (community legal services website). look for specialist help in the most appropriate area of law (probably community care), that'll suggest a local practitioner, who's audited by what used to be the Legal Aid Board to a given standard in that particular area of law, they'll subscribe to the correct journals and have all the right books... They might be able to sort it.

 

good luck

[gaggle]

really s s are responding to a complaint some one has made,if they did not give a response,heartless bast**ds.

 

if you yourself reported possible neglect of a child no doubt you would be furious if no response was made.

 

the anger you feel should i think be focused on the person being malicous towards you.pity they dont have the guts to come to you first with any concerns they might have.

 

the human rights angle is simple,the childrens rights come before yours and rightly so.

 

a 50 ish yr old couple who are about to take delivery of their first nb stopped at my boat chatting,i had met them before at the boat builders.

after some minutes the lady from the boat behind mine returned from collecting her child from school,the next comment from the visitor was,oh the poor child how cruel of his mother,a boat is no place to bring up a child.

 

i would point out that i was in total disagreement with her but unless i allowed her to continue with what she was saying i would not find out what kind of people they were.

the point is clevvit these people and these veiws are out there.

 

the national campaign to improve childrens attendance at school is goverment policy of some importance.

 

i am unsure of what exactly social services have threatened you and your family with but feel it would be a mistake to antoganise them.

 

good luck anyway,

gaggle father of seven

[Guest]

If anyone else has suggested this I apologise:

 

Presuming your children are old enough to attend school, could you speak to headteacher and maybe get some written evidence of your childrens health/attitude etc? Not all headteachers are the same, but most I have dealt with are very understanding and decent people, their main concern being the children in their school. I currently know of one young child who lives on a boat, and the other kids and most of the teachers think it is brilliant for her.

[NB Willawaw]

Dear Paul,

 

I have a thought for you to help bring matters to a close. I would suggest that you contact the school that your daughter attends and ask to speak with the EWO (the Educational Welfare Officer). You could ask for a meeting between yourself, the school head and the EWO to explain the situation that you find yourself in. This would allow a different perspective of your family values and explanations of absences to be explained, as you have already said that your daughter is settling down so her attendence should be up. The EWO could prove to be a good advocate for you.

 

It would also be of benefit to put in writing to the Social Services their inaccurate recording of evidence based on one visit, for your family treat of a 'take-away'. It is also important to record in writing the timing issue of the meeting and letter arrival, so that it informs the services that you are not 'not cooperating' with them. Whilst, I can appreciate you are probably saying 'why the hell should I' at this point, my advice is that you try and work with the services that have shown an interest, to clear matters up asap. This will allow the momentum of things to be halted.

 

Above, it is the ignorance of many about living aboard a 'Narrow Boat', but that is something that will only change in time. A good Canal Magazine in their lap may perhaps allow them to see things in a different light.

 

Mrs Willawaw

 

Dear All

 

I have a story to tell and then an idea so bear with me.

 

As many of you know I live on my boat with my wife and 2 kids, we are happy and clean and our boat is spotless thanks to my wifes continued hard work (and some of mine). Both my children were premature. (2 and 6 now) they are smaller than normal children of that age. When we moved to Cowley we had a surprise visit from a social worker + the school nurse one evening when we were having a take away, not something we do normally. The report put in said that our family lived on take aways because the kitchen was too small to cook in! (this is ofcourse completely untrue, my children actually live on fresh fruit and vegatables 99% of the time, carrots and oranges being a favorite!).

 

Last week we received a letter from social services saying that we had a meeting on the 15th of November, the letter was dated the 7th December, I tried to call the people but didn't get a call back till the morning of the 15th of December only to find we had to be in a meeting because my 1st daughter had been off sick "too much" from school. We think the move up here upset her "system" and she has settled down since.

 

So as a result of that meeting, yesterday the social worker and health visitor turn up. The social worker told my wife the boat was "too Narrow" and borrowed my wifes phone only to walk off with it and leave her own diary (which I'm sure contained confidential information) behind, she put her car in a residential mooring carpark that was promptly locked by one of the moorees (who I think recognised her). She then took my wife and kids to 4 doctors to try and get us registered, as usual they are all full.

 

So now my kids are tired, and so is my wife - but it's not all over yet. Because in the afternoon we had to take the poor tired kids to a doctors appointment at the hospital at 3:40 which actually happened at 4:00 pm we left there about 5:00 pm. I returned from work about 2:30. My wife has written down an account of what took place.

 

Jemimah, my 2 year old got in had something to eat and just collapsed on the sofa and went straight to sleep.

 

We felt pretty alone actually. From start to finish pushed around.

 

I have the following comments;

 

1. Am I right in thinking that comments like "The boat is too narrow" (despite the fact its 70 feet long) is in breach of the European convention on human rights Quoted here (Article 8) see http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html

 

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

 

2. I think it's time there was some sort of organisation to support families living on boats. These would provide education to Social Services and others rather than having them find out by arriving suddenly to check out some poor persons boat.

 

I would be willing to start such an organisation if anyone else is ready to "come aboard". I know the RBOA are out there but apart from getting a monthly newsletter I'm not sure they do anything. I would see the organisations role much more actually bringing families who live on boats together for social events in their local areas and showing that we are a united community. For instance if this had happened to a member they could call us and we could be there or at least be around to give advice on surviving a visit from the social services.

 

Your thoughts please.

[nbtafelberg]

ok

 

Yesterday the social worker came round and I explained to her about the untruths in the report and also about Article8 of the Human rights act.

 

She said I should complain about the inaccuracies. So I will be doing that.

 

My children are 6 and 2 so only one goes to the school. This all started when, because we don't have a doctor my wife took the kids to casualty.

 

 

We now have a doctor for the children on a temporary basis but not for ourselves. (My wife and I), we just have to suffer. THere are no doctors in this area able to take us. This is true of anyone in the area.

[NB Willawaw]

Hi Paul,

 

I am glad that you have found a Doctor for your children, this will help with some of the problems that you are facing. The reason is if your child is off ill from school, in your particular case it would be advisable to go to the doctors to confirm or help with the reason that he/she is off, so that it then becomes in the schools eyes an 'authorised' school absence rather than an 'unauthorised', I know this sounds a little crazy but it will help in the long run. It would also be a possibility for your children to visit the Doctors practice Nurse so that she can monitor growth and rate, again this will demonstrate that you have taken onboard the concerns of your visiting professionals.

 

If it is any consolation, mine were as skinny as 'rakes' and in fact they still are, but that is their genetic make-up. I remember taking them to the Doctor worried that they would not eat very much and he laughed and said "at this age, they will eat when they are hungry, and before you know it they will eat you out of house and home".

I have to say this turned out to be true but they are still 'skinny!' the middle age spread has not reached them yet....

 

I know you are affronted and cross that your civil liberties are being affected, but unfortunately, with children this can take 2nd precedence as it their welfare that comes first as under a certain age it would be considered that they are not 'Gillick Competent' to answer/fully understand for themselves as an independent.

 

Try not to let this invasion be all consuming and have a lovely family Christmas together.

 

Kindest Wishes

Mrs Willawaw