Using a Linux operating system

[Guest]

I know from various posts in the forum there are a few Non Windows users in here and I would like to pick a brain or two with some basic questions before I go further.

 

My Dell PC is now about three years old - it came with Vista but is now getting to that point where all the updates and various other bits and pieces are starting to slow it down, I have been in the habit of changing my PC every three years or so for a while now but want to think about if I can not ditching this one and renewing the OS rather than the whole shooting match, it is in all other respects a perfect machine.

 

So-

 

Can you still partition a windows machine with Vista and run an alternative OS on the other partition, would want to possibly experiment first before ditching Windows completely, has anybody in here done this?

 

Does anybody on here run a non windows system with a Virgin Cable modem/Netgear Wirless router set-up.

 

I'm guessing the other wireless users of my router will be fine sticking with Windows.

 

What about running stuff like my Blackberry desktop - I'm guessing I'll lose stuff like that as there will be no non Windows equivalent.

 

 

 

 

Lastly if I have to ask such basic questions is it going to be just a bridge too far to set up and use a non Windows system?

 

 

 

 

Thanks all (for now)

[imnogeek]

Although I have used various non windows OS in the past I do not know enough to advise on them, altough I do know you can create dual boot systems if required and there are a few apps out there to help you do that.

 

As far as windows and your current PC goes then there are a few options that may help...

 

If you can get/have a windows XP license then this will more than likely run much more efficiently than Vista, if you want to splash out on a W7 upgrade then this is less resource hungry too.

 

RAM is another factor that can improve your PC, 1GB is great for XP but pretty low for Vista where 2GB IMO would be minimum. RAM can be quite an easy chep upgrade which gives your PC a decent boost.

 

There are many other factors that can slow a PC down including "iffy" software that needs updating or is having a problem so if you want to post your full specs I can give you a better idea of what to expect.

[jonk]

I know from various posts in the forum there are a few Non Windows users in here and I would like to pick a brain or two with some basic questions before I go further.

 

My Dell PC is now about three years old - it came with Vista but is now getting to that point where all the updates and various other bits and pieces are starting to slow it down, I have been in the habit of changing my PC every three years or so for a while now but want to think about if I can not ditching this one and renewing the OS rather than the whole shooting match, it is in all other respects a perfect machine.

 

So-

 

Can you still partition a windows machine with Vista and run an alternative OS on the other partition, would want to possibly experiment first before ditching Windows completely, has anybody in here done this?

 

Yes but perhaps try a virtual machine using either Virtual PC (if you have a Vista that will run this) or Virtualbox. This will let you play with the new system before actually altering anything.

 

Does anybody on here run a non windows system with a Virgin Cable modem/Netgear Wirless router set-up.

 

I'm guessing the other wireless users of my router will be fine sticking with Windows.

 

What about running stuff like my Blackberry desktop - I'm guessing I'll lose stuff like that as there will be no non Windows equivalent.

Why not buy Windows 7 and reinstall everything?

 

 

Lastly if I have to ask such basic questions is it going to be just a bridge too far to set up and use a non Windows system?

 

 

 

 

Thanks all (for now)

[Guest]

If you can get/have a windows XP license then this will more than likely run much more efficiently than Vista, if you want to splash out on a W7 upgrade then this is less resource hungry too.

 

I hadn't realised that and thought the converse would be true.

[alan_fincher]

I have for various reasons become rather over-subscribed with PCs.

 

Apart from the 3 regularly used by other family members, I currently have 3 that are nominally mine, including a modern-ish Dell Vista laptop, an older Dell XP desktop and a Linux desktop.

 

The Linux machine is one of the fairly basic Dell Optiplex machines that forum member Stuart's company sold off reasonably a year or so ago, and I guess now is around 3 years old - not particularly high spec, actually.

 

It's running Ubuntu, and was a doddle to set-up and network. It's running on a new Netgear router, and although it's one of the "wired" connections, I can't imagine it would be any harder to go wireless, if it were so equipped.

 

I remain impressed that I can plug just about any printer, scanner, camera etc into it's USB ports, and it is (if anything) easier to get them quickly up and running with correct drivers than on a Windows box. Not been defeated by anything yet

 

Inertia is the main reason I've not used it more, but what I have tried all works well, including editing proprietary "Word" and "Excel" documents in the Open Office (free) software, with no loss of Microsoft Office compatibility when they are re-opened in Word or Excel.

 

I have yet to experiment with Windows emulators like (I think it's called) Wine, but if they work as well as most other things Linux, I'll be quite happy.

 

Quite a bit of paid software that I rely on did not seamlessly work in Vista as I moved up from XP, and I am increasingly tempted to go the "all Linux" route.

 

To get a first feel of something like Ubuntu, you do not even need to install dual boot at all. You can arrange to boot Ubuntu directly off a CD if you wish, and gain some familiarity without touching your Windows set up initially.

 

I used to work in computers on Unix machines, (not PCs), but mainly on databases, so I have some Unix familiarity. However, this was more just working at the command prompt, and very different from Ubuntu on a PC with a GUI, which is very "Window's like". Although my past knowledge might give me a bit more background than some, I don't think I would have struggled with Ubuntu, if I had never seen any flavour of Unix before.

 

There's no doubt that the "ex Stuart" machine I have running Ubuntu is significantly faster than the one OH uses still on XP, so I imagine you would see a big performance hike over Vista, which seems a lot hungrier than XP ever was.

[CV32]

I have experience of updating my Windows OS from Vista to Windows 7.

 

I have to say the PC struggled when running Vista but with Windows 7 it is much more responsive. Not sure which version of unix/linux would give you the functionality you seem to want, ie blackberry desktop etc.

[jonk]

I have for various reasons become rather over-subscribed with PCs.

 

Apart from the 3 regularly used by other family members, I currently have 3 that are nominally mine, including a modern-ish Dell Vista laptop, an older Dell XP desktop and a Linux desktop.

 

The Linux machine is one of the fairly basic Dell Optiplex machines that forum member Stuart's company sold off reasonably a year or so ago, and I guess now is around 3 years old - not particularly high spec, actually.

 

It's running Ubuntu, and was a doddle to set-up and network. It's running on a new Netgear router, and although it's one of the "wired" connections, I can't imagine it would be any harder to go wireless, if it were so equipped.

 

I remain impressed that I can plug just about any printer, scanner, camera etc into it's USB ports, and it is (if anything) easier to get them quickly up and running with correct drivers than on a Windows box. Not been defeated by anything yet

 

Inertia is the main reason I've not used it more, but what I have tried all works well, including editing proprietary "Word" and "Excel" documents in the Open Office (free) software, with no loss of Microsoft Office compatibility when they are re-opened in Word or Excel.

 

I have yet to experiment with Windows emulators like (I think it's called) Wine, but if they work as well as most other things Linux, I'll be quite happy.

 

Quite a bit of paid software that I rely on did not seamlessly work in Vista as I moved up from XP, and I am increasingly tempted to go the "all Linux" route.

 

To get a first feel of something like Ubuntu, you do not even need to install dual boot at all. You can arrange to boot Ubuntu directly off a CD if you wish, and gain some familiarity without touching your Windows set up initially.

 

I used to work in computers on Unix machines, (not PCs), but mainly on databases, so I have some Unix familiarity. However, this was more just working at the command prompt, and very different from Ubuntu on a PC with a GUI, which is very "Window's like". Although my past knowledge might give me a bit more background than some, I don't think I would have struggled with Ubuntu, if I had never seen any flavour of Unix before.

 

There's no doubt that the "ex Stuart" machine I have running Ubuntu is significantly faster than the one OH uses still on XP, so I imagine you would see a big performance hike over Vista, which seems a lot hungrier than XP ever was.

 

I have also had machines running Ubuntu, 95, 98, XP Home and Pro, and Vista of various CPU powers and agree with all the above except that I would note that when/if there is a problem with Ubuntu it is much more difficult to find a solution if you are a 'beginner'. I remember one automatic update destroyed the screen settings and I had to reinstall Ubuntu without the update to get it working again! Maybe the latest incarnation is safer but I would still go the XP or 7 route for a faster and more trouble-free experience. It really comes down to what you want to use the machine for and personal preferences and experience.

[Guest]

 It really comes down to what you want to use the machine for and personal preferences and experience.

 

I agree and still might the Windows 7 way - but I've just done a quick tally of the programs I use on my PC regularly and all of them (bar 2)  have Lunix versions (inc Open Office which I used the windows version of for years before we got licence to use MS office at home from work)

 

 

Internet - currently using Opera/Firefox - Linux versions are available.

 

No longer play any of the games I have - so will likely stick them on eBay anyway.

 

Which leaves my BlackBerry Desktop management software and iTunes - after a Google about both seem a bit 'flakey' or unlikley to run properly under Windows emulators so that leaves me with a small part of the disk to set aside for Windows and those couple of programs or swapping them to Jan's Laptop and ditching Vista all together.

 

 

 

 

It's all got me thinking......

[imnogeek]

As was suggested by jonk, go download the cd image and create a CD of Ubuntu then you can run it from CD without installing it to see how you get on with it http://www.ubuntu.com/GetUbuntu/download

 

you can also go here http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7...de-advisor.aspx to see if W7 will be OK with your software/hardware.

[Guest]

As was suggested by jonk, go download the cd image and create a CD of Ubuntu then you can run it from CD without installing it to see how you get on with it http://www.ubuntu.com/GetUbuntu/download

 

you can also go here http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7...de-advisor.aspx to see if W7 will be OK with your software/hardware.

Cheers 

 

 

The former is in progress -

 

the latter I've already done and it's advised me Windows 7 is not compatible with my keyboard and mouse software (Intellipoint) - which is a tad surprising as they are both Microsoft products and at only a couple of years old, newer than the PC they're attached to.

[imnogeek]

the latter I've already done and it's advised me Windows 7 is not compatible with my keyboard and mouse software (Intellipoint) - which is a tad surprising as they are both Microsoft products and at only a couple of years old, newer than the PC they're attached to.

 

They will still work fine it is the software that comes with them won't. the new software for them is availble here http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/download...spx?category=mk

[Guest]

OK - one for Alan (or anybody else who knows)

 

Should I be able to get t'inter web working while using the Live disc.

 

Managed to download and burn Ubuntu to a DVD disc.

 

Had to change the order my PC boots in so that it would boot from the CD drive, no big problem.

 

Have had a little play, but no internet... I'm guessing it should still work with the live version and just needs me to Google again but was hoping if somebody knew. (and If I do will my router and modem be fine again when I go back to Windows??)

[RLWP]

OK - one for Alan (or anybody else who knows)

 

Should I be able to get t'inter web working while using the Live disc.

 

Managed to download and burn Ubuntu to a DVD disc.

 

Had to change the order my PC boots in so that it would boot from the CD drive, no big problem.

 

Have had a little play, but no internet... I'm guessing it should still work with the live version and just needs me to Google again but was hoping if somebody knew. (and If I do will my router and modem be fine again when I go back to Windows??)

 

Has it set your network port up properly?

 

Richard

[imnogeek]

Don't alter modem or router settings, ther should be no need to.

 

If you are using wireles I wouild try using an ethernet cable to the router instead and there should be no problem then.

 

I wil leave any futher info on ubuntu to someone who knows it better

[RupertG]

OK - one for Alan (or anybody else who knows)

 

Should I be able to get t'inter web working while using the Live disc.

 

Managed to download and burn Ubuntu to a DVD disc.

 

Had to change the order my PC boots in so that it would boot from the CD drive, no big problem.

 

Have had a little play, but no internet... I'm guessing it should still work with the live version and just needs me to Google again but was hoping if somebody knew. (and If I do will my router and modem be fine again when I go back to Windows??)

 

The Internet (wired or wireless) should work just fine - but I too have had the odd problem on some network hardware with Ubuntu 9.10 (I guess that's what you're running). If you can say what model laptop you're using, I'll have a look and see if there are known issues and fixes.

 

The set-up here, by the way, is Ubuntu 9.10 with XP and 7 running as virtual machines (I need that for access to my work email, as Microsoft Outlook Web Access will only work properly with Internet Explorer, and Internet Explorer will work properly only with Windows. There is, of course, absolutely no technical reason for any of this - it is my daily reminder that Microsoft has little respect for its users. Rant over). I've found this is more convenient than dual-booting.

 

Rupert

[Guest]

The Internet (wired or wireless) should work just fine - but I too have had the odd problem on some network hardware with Ubuntu 9.10 (I guess that's what you're running). If you can say what model laptop you're using, I'll have a look and see if there are known issues and fixes.

 

The set-up here, by the way, is Ubuntu 9.10 with XP and 7 running as virtual machines (I need that for access to my work email, as Microsoft Outlook Web Access will only work properly with Internet Explorer, and Internet Explorer will work properly only with Windows. There is, of course, absolutely no technical reason for any of this - it is my daily reminder that Microsoft has little respect for its users. Rant over). I've found this is more convenient than dual-booting.

 

Rupert

 

Thanks but just to confirm so I'm being clear...

 

The issue is with my Dell PC which is 'hard wired' to a Netgear Router which in turn is 'hard wired' to a Virgin cable modem.

 

I've not tried anything via. wireless yet.

 

When using Ubuntu 'live' I can explore most of it's features but when I use Firefox and try to connect to the internet FF can't find the site I'm trying to connect to.

 

There is also no sign of activity from my Netgear router or my modem.

 

 

Has it set your network port up properly?

 

Richard

 

Sorry Richard - I have no idea.

[RupertG]

Thanks but just to confirm so I'm being clear...

 

The issue is with my Dell PC which is 'hard wired' to a Netgear Router which in turn is 'hard wired' to a Virgin cable modem.

 

I've not tried anything via. wireless yet.

 

When using Ubuntu 'live' I can explore most of it's features but when I use Firefox and try to connect to the internet FF can't find the site I'm trying to connect to.

 

There is also no sign of activity from my Netgear router or my modem.

 

 

 

 

Sorry Richard - I have no idea.

 

Can you tell me what the model number of the Dell is? Also, if you're running Ubuntu, can you go to the System menu, then choose Preferences and Network Connections, then tell me what the window says under the Wired tab?

 

R

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

 

 

 

Sorry Richard - I have no idea.

 

If your network "socket" on the pc isn't working, you won't be able to connect to the Netgear box and so on.

 

Go with what Rupert is suggesting, he'll help you check this out.

 

Richard

 

I got fed up playing these games with Ubuntu years ago

[Guest]

Can you tell me what the model number of the Dell is? Also, if you're running Ubuntu, can you go to the System menu, then choose Preferences and Network Connections, then tell me what the window says under the Wired tab?

 

R

 

Hi Rupert - the PC is a Dell Dimension 9200.

 

 

I can get to the System menu and I can choose preferences but Network connections does not appear under that tab, Network Proxy does.

 

I do appreciate your help but I have to say I think this is what distinguishes Windows from other operating systems, in that normally everything just 'works'

 

I think I might be spending £50 on an upgrade to Windows 7.

 

 

 

 

Thanks everybody for your input to date.

[alan_fincher]

I think I might be spending £50 on an upgrade to Windows 7.

I think the jury could be out on whether if you think that the machine is seeming sluggish with Vista plus all patches, whether it will go appreciably faster with Windows 7.

 

Some seem to say "7" has put back some of the performance that Vista lacked, others that "7" is little more than Vista with a "service pack 3", in which case I struggle to see it is going to speed your PC up much.

 

In my experience what cripples Windows performance over time is all the background processes and "services", which, however careful you try to be about what you allow to load, grow more and more in number.

 

Stupid things that are constantly checking if you need the latest update of "Droolware Bytes", or whether your default way of looking at MP3 videos is still "SupaVid", or whatever, as well as a lot more heavyweight stuff that may, or may not be, beneficial.

 

I don't know for certain, but suspect if you upgrade an already set up PC from Vista to Windows 7, that much of this crap would remain there, still slowing down your PC.

 

If on the other hand, you were prepared to zap the whole machine, and re set it up with "7", I suspect it would run a whole lot faster.

 

But of course if you zapped the whole machine, but set it up again with Vista, without reloading all the things that add the overheads, you might also find it goes a lot faster.

 

I did that with a Dell desktop referred to earlier, (or at least I did with XP). A machine that is now maybe 5 or 6 years old at least got a new lease of life, but of course that's as good as it gets, and the more you actually try to use it, the slower things may get again.

 

Just my view - I'll admit freely I've not actually tried Windows 7, so am genuinely interested if people think an upgrade to it would speed up a Vista machine that had become sluggish.

 

[Edited as I didn't quote the correct bit of Martin's post]

 

Can you easily do the upgrade for £50 ? - Amazon for example seem to be charging rather more ?

Edited April 3, 2010 by alan_fincher

[mickp]

my experience with ubuntu was mixed,i loved the ease it installed and set up my wireless connection etc loved the fast boot up and shut down time but had to give it up as even using wine could'nt run a program i use regular,also the dual boot system didnt work very well and messed up vista installation ,so if u do try back up ur files somewhere safe.

[Guest]

I think the jury could be out on whether if you think that the machine is seeming sluggish with Vista plus all patches, whether it will go appreciably faster with Windows 7.

 

Can you easily do the upgrade for £50 ? - Amazon for example seem to be charging rather more ?

 

 

 

 

Can't argue with that but I was sure I'd spotted an upgrade from Vista for about £50 and on Amazon too - just been back and ....no, it's not there.

[jonk]

Before forking out for a new system it might be worth saving any data you don't want to lose, wiping the hard drive, and reinstalling Vista. Set all the fancy things like shadows to basic, don't use the sidebar etc. Now reinstall any programs you want to use. You might be pleasantly surprised at how fast the machine now is! Probably worth trying don't you think? I agree with the above posts that Ubuntu is not quite 'there' yet as a completely user-friendly system and you already have Vista!

[Peter R]

Personally, i've got two machines (laptop & desktop), both setup with dual-boot ubuntu/windows. ubuntu is my 'normal' OS on both and I only venture into windows on the rare occaisions that I run into something I can't get to work on linux. When I do, I start swearing about how slowly it's working!

 

The laptop has vista as it's windows, the desktop runs xp. Setting up the dual-boot is easy through the install process, but is a bit of chance - normally it works fine, but occaisionally something can go wrong.

 

One of things i've been very impressed with on the latest issues of ubuntu (i'm running 9.10) is the networking - both wired and wifi have always setup and worked perfectly, it will even auto-setup my 3g usb dongle when i plug it in! Therefore i can't think why it doesen't work on the 'live' cd, unless this is a limitation of running off the cd - I guess there is a limit to how much of the system can be fitted on a cd!. I'm on the boat at the moment so I can't check but if you like I can try running a live cd when i get home and see if the networking will work.

 

In short, I have no plans to go back to windows as 'first choice'

 

Peter

[Guest]

Before forking out for a new system it might be worth saving any data you don't want to lose, wiping the hard drive, and reinstalling Vista. Set all the fancy things like shadows to basic, don't use the sidebar etc. Now reinstall any programs you want to use. You might be pleasantly surprised at how fast the machine now is! Probably worth trying don't you think? I agree with the above posts that Ubuntu is not quite 'there' yet as a completely user-friendly system and you already have Vista!

 

Cheers but from the day I got the PC I've disabled all the 'fancy' Vista effects and app's including the sidebar as I was pretty sure that would slow things down. I never actually wanted Vista and wish now I'd spec'd XP - from memory though this wasn't an option when I bought this PC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

if you like I can try running a live cd when i get home and see if the networking will work.

 

Peter

 

I would appreciate that Peter thanks.