Using a Linux operating system

[RupertG]

Hi Rupert - the PC is a Dell Dimension 9200.

 

 

I can get to the System menu and I can choose preferences but Network connections does not appear under that tab, Network Proxy does.

 

I do appreciate your help but I have to say I think this is what distinguishes Windows from other operating systems, in that normally everything just 'works'

 

I think I might be spending £50 on an upgrade to Windows 7.

 

 

 

 

Thanks everybody for your input to date.

 

I have to say that Windows is most certainly not in the 'everything just works' camp! Nothing is... no, not even OS X.

 

However, neither is Ubuntu. I've had a hunt around, and while it's not clear why your network isn't working there are a number of reports that the network interface chipset used in your Dell has problems under the most recent versions of Linux. It would be possible to find out why and fix it, but only with a great deal of mucking about.

 

If you're dead set on getting Ubuntu working, though, I'll be happy to help out.

 

Still, this is the point of having that Live CD - you can try it out with the smallest possible investment, and zero risk. For the record, I've done around ten Ubuntu 9.10 installations for friends, family and myself, and nine have gone perfectly. The tenth was a nightmare.

[Ange]

Hi Martin

 

My son is very keen on Ubuntu and persuaded me to let him reformat my very slow and ailing laptop and install Ubuntu. I eventually agreed and then moved onto the boat, leaving my main IT support behind in Kent! I gave up due to various failures on that occasion, but I am trying again because I do believe that once I've taken the time to understand how to work it, it will be far better than Windows.

 

My observations so far are that when it works it is much better than Windows - the free Excel/Word equivalent is just as good, it has a host of software to run anything you plug into it (we have a WinTV dongle and I found that Kaffeine was far better than the WinTV software) and I found it much quicker and far less annoying than Windows. I also like the notion that this stuff should be free and that knowledge should be shared.

 

BUT when it does go wrong it can be horribly hard to fix. I did find the Ubuntu forums an amazing resource and fixed quite a few problem using them, but I'm talking to you now via a Windows netbook (the main laptop is still Ubuntu so I haven't given up completely) because I couldn't get our new 3 dongle to work on Ubuntu, plus I haven't been able to fix a few minor but very irritating problems (one of which I posted on here, but no one was able to help me with)

 

I did join the Ubuntu forum that a member kindly posted a link to. I posed my question to the huge number of members, 24 hours later and no response. I bumped the thread (a little afraid that this may be a taboo action on a computer forum) which led to one very well meant response from someone who'd obviously missed the part of my OP where I'd said I was a complete newby to Ubuntu - I did not understand a word of it!

 

We still use the Ubuntu lappy for TV (the screen on the netbook isn't particularly TV watching friendly anyway) but I need to buy a text book and study Ubuntu before I can use it full time. The intention is there ...

 

Best of luck if you do decide to take that route

 

[Guest]

Thanks Rupert and Ange.

[ymu]

The LiveCD route is good for getting a feel for what it's like, but I don't think it's conducive to learning Ubuntu properly.

 

I dual-booted my machine with a shared data drive, so that both operating systems look at the same data. Firefox and Thunderbird (e-mail) work on both OSs and you can keep their profiles on the shared data drive so that your browser and e-mail will be identical whichever OS you've booted into.

 

Best instructions for dual-booting I've come across are here. It gives you a little more technical detail than you need, but don't be put off - they're very good guides (although I refused to buy a Vista machine so I've only used the XP/Ubuntu and Ubuntu/XP ones).

 

Download AptonCD. This will allow you to make back-up disks which includes all the additional software you've installed, so if you do get into difficulties, you will be able to reinstall Ubuntu with all the extra stuff you downloaded included. As a n00b, this will come in handy!

 

I started with older versions of Ubuntu which weren't as user-friendly as 9.10 and I found googling for solutions usually found what I needed. Just keep reading the various bits of advice you find until you feel comfortable to follow some of it. It's very educational, and a lot of fun! Ubuntu 9.10 is the first version that is actually more user-friendly than Windows (IMO). As said above, it deals with 3G dongles perfectly, and the software is nicer than any of the Windows 3G interfaces I've seen.

 

If you do decide to try Windows 7, allow it much much more space on the drive than you'd think. I can't remember the exact details but it has a folder which saves a load of back-up stuff to do with the software you're using, and no means of deleting or even identifying the obsolete files, so the folder gradually grows and grows and grows. Presumably this idiocy will get patched, but it's Microsoft so I won't be holding my breath (or abandoning XP any time soon!)

[Guest]

The LiveCD route is good for getting a feel for what it's like, but I don't think it's conducive to learning Ubuntu properly.

 

I dual-booted my machine with a shared data drive, so that both operating systems look at the same data. Firefox and Thunderbird (e-mail) work on both OSs and you can keep their profiles on the shared data drive so that your browser and e-mail will be identical whichever OS you've booted into.

 

Best instructions for dual-booting I've come across are here. 

 

<SNIP>

 

Thanks for that link, I've bookmarked it for future reference.

 

 

I really like the Unbuntu interface and the programs and tools it comes with just about meet nearly all my needs, once I get t'internet working! I think I will give part of my machine over to it, just for the learning.

 

Thanks again everybody for input so far.

[jonk]

One idea that hasn't been mentioned is to buy a second Hard Drive. If you do this then remove the one you already have and install Ubuntu, or whatever system you want to test, on the new disk, and use it - you will then know if it is the right os for you and whether it will work on your machine. If you then decide that you would prefer to stick with what you had (a definite possibility) you can replace your old disk, wipe the new disk and use it for backups, data or whatever you want.

[Guest]

Mmmm....

 

 

Still struggling to get t'internet to work.

 

By what Googling I've done Ubuntu should just detect the Ethernet connection that the router is plugged into, it doesn't. It doesn't detect it even if I take the router out of the equation and just connect the cable modem direct to the PC (which wouldn't have been an acceptable solution long term any way).

 

Suspecting it's because I'm using the Live CD rather than an installed version - if anybody has got one and can get their internet to work while just using their Live CD version I would appreciate knowing.

 

This is proving to be one of those 'I won't let this defeat me' kind of scenarios - OK back to Google (On Windows of course!!)

[ymu]

Mmmm....

 

 

Still struggling to get t'internet to work.

 

By what Googling I've done Ubuntu should just detect the Ethernet connection that the router is plugged into, it doesn't. It doesn't detect it even if I take the router out of the equation and just connect the cable modem direct to the PC (which wouldn't have been an acceptable solution long term any way).

 

Suspecting it's because I'm using the Live CD rather than an installed version - if anybody has got one and can get their internet to work while just using their Live CD version I would appreciate knowing.

 

This is proving to be one of those 'I won't let this defeat me' kind of scenarios - OK back to Google (On Windows of course!!)

We had a problem with connecting using the LiveCD. One reason we decided to do it properly. When The Boy needed a new lappie we got one which came with Ubuntu so that we'd know it wasn't driver issues or whatever. Then I dual-booted my XP with Ubuntu and there were zero problems. Everything worked instantly apart from bluetooth, and in those days you had to manually set up 3G. Huge contrast to having to reinstall XP without the OEM disks - took a week to get most of the drivers and months to track down all the problems.

 

Have you got a wireless router? It'll bypass a lot of the possible problems, at least until you find a wired solution.

 

You could try wubi. You install it from within Windows and it sets up a fake dual-boot. You uninstall from within Windows too - it's a .exe (ie a Windows program). It has some performance implications and I'd do a proper dual-boot if you want to keep dual-boot in the long-term, but if you're not sure which route to go down, it might be the easiest way to start. It makes no permanent changes to the machine, and if you boot into Ubuntu you'll have all the same data available automatically.

Edited April 4, 2010 by ymu

[imnogeek]

RupertG said

However, neither is Ubuntu. I've had a hunt around, and while it's not clear why your network isn't working there are a number of reports that the network interface chipset used in your Dell has problems under the most recent versions of Linux. It would be possible to find out why and fix it, but only with a great deal of mucking about

 

It would seem there is an issue with your Chipset and this is the route I would take to resolve the problem, try searching the Ubuntu forum for dell 9200 network issues, and/or intel 825xx chipset. (The chipset in your dell that does the networking)

[jonk]

If you install Linux in a separate partition be aware that it will install a boot-loader, probably grub. If you then decide to uninstall Linux you will find it will not remove the loader and you will have to use a special Windows technique to get rid of it - i.e. restore it to loading the Windows system without asking which system to load. I really think that a second hard-drive is a better solution, then you can just change the bias to load whichever hard-drive you want, or preferably just connect the one you want and disconnect the other. The second method ensures that each system is completely independent of the other and hence cannot corrupt the other.

[ymu]

If you install Linux in a separate partition be aware that it will install a boot-loader, probably grub. If you then decide to uninstall Linux you will find it will not remove the loader and you will have to use a special Windows technique to get rid of it - i.e. restore it to loading the Windows system without asking which system to load. I really think that a second hard-drive is a better solution, then you can just change the bias to load whichever hard-drive you want, or preferably just connect the one you want and disconnect the other. The second method ensures that each system is completely independent of the other and hence cannot corrupt the other.

Easier on a PC than a laptop. With a laptop, switching disks would be a massive pain in the arse. It's not that practical on a PC if you want to dual boot so that you can use both systems at will. Keeping an external hard drive plugged in wouldn't be so bad for a PC, but then you have your new operating system set up on the wrong hard drive when you want to delete the old OS, so you have to reinstall it and get it set up again, reintroducing some of the risks you were hoping to avoid in the first place.

 

I'm never convinced by this solution. It seems to be the worst of all worlds for the situation the OP describes.

[jonk]

Easier on a PC than a laptop. With a laptop, switching disks would be a massive pain in the arse. It's not that practical on a PC if you want to dual boot so that you can use both systems at will. Keeping an external hard drive plugged in wouldn't be so bad for a PC, but then you have your new operating system set up on the wrong hard drive when you want to delete the old OS, so you have to reinstall it and get it set up again, reintroducing some of the risks you were hoping to avoid in the first place.

 

I'm never convinced by this solution. It seems to be the worst of all worlds for the situation the OP describes.

 

True that it is easier on a PC! I am not a fan of dual booting systems - from my experience there are too many ways for it to go wrong. Having totally separate systems on separate hard drives that are used only one at a time means that any mistakes/problems on one does not affect the other since that other drive is not even in the machine! As for deleting the system you don't want you just reformat that disk.

[ymu]

True that it is easier on a PC! I am not a fan of dual booting systems - from my experience there are too many ways for it to go wrong. Having totally separate systems on separate hard drives that are used only one at a time means that any mistakes/problems on one does not affect the other since that other drive is not even in the machine! As for deleting the system you don't want you just reformat that disk.

Sure. I'm just saying that if you need the two systems to run in parallel and be accessible for different tasks until the new OS is bedded in, you can't do it with two separate disks without a hell of a lot of palaver one way or another (either physically switching disks, or using an external HD for the new OS which is useless to you when you make the final switch). Dual-booting is a better short-term approach, in this particular situation (IMO).

[boots]

Just a thought and no experience, but has anyone tried 'Wubi' (http://wubi-installer.org/) - lets you install linux without changing your Windows install - you get a dual boot system without having to repartition etc.

 

(sorry if this has already been mentioned)

[RupertG]

RupertG said

 

It would seem there is an issue with your Chipset and this is the route I would take to resolve the problem, try searching the Ubuntu forum for dell 9200 network issues, and/or intel 825xx chipset. (The chipset in your dell that does the networking)

 

That's what I did when I was trying to find the answer, but when I got to a posting that talked about rolling back to an earlier kernel because support was missing in the latest version, I recognised the warning signs of mucho pain in store!

 

R

[Guest]

Just a thought and no experience, but has anyone tried 'Wubi' (http://wubi-installer.org/) - lets you install linux without changing your Windows install - you get a dual boot system without having to repartition etc.

 

(sorry if this has already been mentioned)

 

It hasn't been mentioned,

 

However if you can get that installer to work I certainly can't - it stops with an error message about a missing disk-

 

Thought I might give it a whirl as it looks like it installs an older version that I though might work with my Chip set, however can't get it run.

 

So back to my live disk....

Edited April 10, 2010 by MJG

[jonk]

I am sure that you have thought of this, but just in case...

Why not get a more powerful CPU and maximum RAM - since the computer is only a few years old it will probably accept a much quicker CPU. It might also be worth looking at something like Registry First Aid to clear up the registry - an inflating registry is often the cause of computer slowdown. You can also defragment the hard drive (you probably know all about this anyway). It used to be the 'norm' to do a clean reinstall of windows every year or two to restore it's speed - I am not sure if that is the case with Vista - mine has been running a couple of years and hasn't slowed appreciably - but I do use RFA regularly to weed out the rubbish, and disk tidy as well to get rid of temp files etc.

From what has been said in the above posts I am sure that you will have realised that the best option is to buy a new computer with windows 7 :lol:

Hope you come right

John

[Ange]

A mention on a recent thread brought this one to mind...

 

How's it going with Linux Martin? I'm genuinely interested as I still have our main lappy running on Ubuntu - it's hard work sometimes to figure out how to achieve what I want to but very rewarding when I do (and I actually think having started my computer life in the early 90s using DOS helps when using the terminal!)

 

When the current rather ailing lappy gives up we're going to save ourselves a couple of hundred pounds and buy a Ubuntu lappy

[Ange]

A mention on a recent thread brought this one to mind...

 

How's it going with Linux Martin? I'm genuinely interested as I still have our main lappy running on Ubuntu - it's hard work sometimes to figure out how to achieve what I want to but very rewarding when I do (and I actually think having started my computer life in the early 90s using DOS helps when using the terminal!)

 

When the current rather ailing lappy gives up we're going to save ourselves a couple of hundred pounds and buy a Ubuntu lappy

 

I'm just bumping this one in case it was missed in the New Year fat fingered celebrations!

[Guest]

Well five years on and counting.......

 

I finally have a working Linux system. I have given over part of my old PC to it which also still has Windows 7 on it but now also has openSUSE on it using the KDE desktop.

 

I have been trying Ubuntu on and off again all day to no avail, I just for some reason couldn't get it to install the bootloader/menu at which point the install routine just kept freezing. So I gave up on that (Again!!) and tried openSUSE which installed perfectly first time apart from the fans on the graphics card howling away as if the PC wanted to go into orbit. A quick search for the correct drivers for a Nvidia Gforce 7600 sorted that and after installing them the card is as quiet as it was with windows (which already has the correct drivers).

 

A happy bunny as it gives me something else to play with.

 

https://www.opensuse.org/

 

Edited February 11, 2016 by MJG

[Guest]

Well five years on and counting.......

 

I finally have a working Linux system. I have given over part of my old PC to it which also still has Windows 7 on it but now also has openSUSE on it using the KDE desktop.

 

I have been trying Ubuntu on and off again all day to no avail, I just for some reason couldn't get it to install the bootloader/menu at which point the install routine just kept freezing. So I gave up on that (Again!!) and tried openSUSE which installed perfectly first time apart from the fans on the graphics card howling away as if the PC wanted to go into orbit. A quick search for the correct drivers for a Nvidia Gforce 7600 sorted that and after installing them the card is as quiet as it was with windows (which already has the correct drivers).

 

A happy bunny as it gives me something else to play with.

 

https://www.opensuse.org/

 

Have fun! Never tried opensusie (in computer context, anyway) as yet. Will be intersted to see how it goes for you.

[Guest]

Have fun! Never tried opensusie (in computer context, anyway) as yet. Will be intersted to see how it goes for you.

 

 

The main reason I chose it was because a few of the others seemed to be based around Ubuntu in some way shape or form and looking at screen shots of the installation looked very similar. Given I just couldn't get Ubuntu past the end of the installation routine for some unknown reason I wanted something that was unrelated in as far as possible. It seemed to work and it installed no problem.

[Guest]

 

 

The main reason I chose it was because a few of the others seemed to be based around Ubuntu in some way shape or form and looking at screen shots of the installation looked very similar. Given I just couldn't get Ubuntu past the end of the installation routine for some unknown reason I wanted something that was unrelated in as far as possible. It seemed to work and it installed no problem.

We had one type of computer at work where Ubuntu was tricky to load. OK on others though, as was Mint (I like Mint very much.) Might load OpenSuse up sometime and give it a go. I am very much into free software, rarely using windoze at all these days. I find it so bloated after using Linux for some years.

[DoesNotFloat]

If you're struggling with Ubuntu, there's every reason to think the same would happen in Mint, because Mint is just a modified Ubuntu. I've had a couple of machines refuse Ubuntu. It's always worth trying Mint Debian, because it's closer to the original Debian than Ubuntu is (Ubuntu is a heavily modded Debian).

 

I haven't used Suse since about 1999 when I converted my then GF onto linux, good to hear it's still viable. When I started on Linux back in the 90s someone told me that all roads lead to Debian, and it's almost turned out to be true. All the machines I put Linux on over the years have been migrated from various different distros to Debian, leaving my own desktop pc as the only non debian machine around here (Gentoo all the way on my own machine, but only really suitable for those who like to tinker with the internals)

[Arthur Brown]

My technique when trying a (not) new OS is to get another blank hard drive for the computer (usu a Lappy) and get the OS installed on the replacement HD at the local computer fair. This way you keep the old OS as was, with all it's cookies etc and try with the same computer but a different HD. If you like it you keep it if not it's two or three screws an revert to the old installation.