Central heating, what to fit?

[kilravock]

Hi, we have a 57ft narrowboat which has done well over the previous year. To date we've been happy to use the Morso solid fuel burning stove. However, it's not without problems. The stove burns a ton of fuel, is either to cold or boiling hot and, again, means frequent trips for more logs etc.

This winter the boat has suffered a lot of damp. Tomorrow I'm going back to check on her and hope I can at least get a 1KW blow fire going via Marina shoreline - but even that's not a given as the shoreline current is pretty erratic.

I've been thinking of installing a central heating system (maybe Eberspacher?) but am frankly bewildered by air heaters vs water heaters etc. I also don't have the know-how to fit it myself.

If anyone else has been down this road, what central heating system did you fit, is it any good, and did it involve selling the family silver to afford it?

Any advice would be welcome.

[simonk]

From what I've seen on various threads here in the past, people seem to have endless problems with diesel heaters and the like. Have you tried using coal (smokeless) in the stove - it's much more controllable and burns loads longer than wood. I've even saw a web page once with a Squirrel converted to run on diesel.

 

Have you got radiators already plumbed in, or is that yet to be done?

[Proper Job]

In my opinion, you won't be able to beat the Morso for dry heat while your on the boat.

 

If you're worried about damp while away, try placing a couple of back ground heaters on board clicky. They should run off a shore line supply.

[trogstig]

The stove burns a ton of fuel, is either to cold or boiling hot and, again, means frequent trips for more logs etc.

 

I'm sure that this observation will lead to plenty of derision from the denizens of this forum but my experience of a Morso stove was much the same as yours for the first year that I was aboard. It takes practice to get consistent heat from a stove; but once mastered, a stove gives 'better' heat than any of the alternatives, at less fuel cost.

 

I use kindling to light the stove on a Monday morning (if I've been away for the weekend), then only a few lumps of 'stoveheat' (processed coal) three times per day - using about 25 kg per week.

 

It helps if you're not in a hurry to get the stove from-zero-to-hero when lighting it. Accept that it could take 2 hours to heat up, then you're less likely to reach roasting temperatures

 

I've been thinking of installing a central heating system (maybe Eberspacher?)

 

Central heating is good for the first few hours after the Morso has been lit - also great for warming the bits of the boat that are just too far from the stove. (An Ecofan will do the latter very well too)

 

Everyone who I know who has an Eberspacher on their boat (3 boats) has at least one week per year of Eberspacher breakdown. These are very complicated beasts, and notably susceptible to dirty diesel. The diagnostic box-of-tricks for an Eberspacher is available on ebay - if you own one of these, at least you can identify the basic fault when your Eberspacher fails - and reset the fault code to attempt to restart it if you were able to fix the fault.

 

Webasto heaters (similar to Eberspacher) are perhaps more reliable - but very high output, so fairly thirsty to run.

 

Bottle-gas fired CH (my system) is very low-tech, so very reliable indeed. Costly to run though, at 20 ukpounds for 13Kg of propane...

[bottle]

Agree with all the previous.

 

To run Morso, little and often is better than banking it up when it gets very low.

 

One of the solid fuels will be much better than wood.

 

Have Erbaspacher (wet) and only used it for about four hours in the last five months and that was in four separate sessions.

 

We are liveaboards.

[Robbo]

Hi, we have a 57ft narrowboat which has done well over the previous year. To date we've been happy to use the Morso solid fuel burning stove. However, it's not without problems. The stove burns a ton of fuel, is either to cold or boiling hot and, again, means frequent trips for more logs etc.

This winter the boat has suffered a lot of damp. Tomorrow I'm going back to check on her and hope I can at least get a 1KW blow fire going via Marina shoreline - but even that's not a given as the shoreline current is pretty erratic.

I've been thinking of installing a central heating system (maybe Eberspacher?) but am frankly bewildered by air heaters vs water heaters etc. I also don't have the know-how to fit it myself.

If anyone else has been down this road, what central heating system did you fit, is it any good, and did it involve selling the family silver to afford it?

Any advice would be welcome.

 

A water based heating system will be better than air but will need radiators, finrads or underfloor heating to be installed if none are already in. Issue with air system is that if you open a door, all the warm air goes, but air you feel as soon as you switch on.

 

With a water based heater you can get air blowers, so you could have radiators and air blowers as well.

 

The diesel heaters that have the bad rep are the rebadged pre-heaters, I would avoid these. I'm replacing my Mikuni with a Hurricane as they have the reputation for making marine heaters for 24/7 use! Although they do cost. Link for Hurricane; http://www.itrheat.com, Main UK dealer is here; http://www.calcuttboats.com/hurricane.html

 

 

Edit to add; with the damp issue, as a solid fuel stove brings in new air and gets rid of the old, this is the best type of heating to reduce damp.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Robbo

[sharpness]

I'm replacing my Mikuni with a Hurricane as they have the reputation for making marine heaters for 24/7 use!

If I remember rightly, didnt Gary Peacock have some difficulty with these, though I dont remember what it was, when at Legard Bridge?

Might be worth a PM.

 

Steve

[Robbo]

If I remember rightly, didnt Gary Peacock have some difficulty with these, though I dont remember what it was, when at Legard Bridge?

Might be worth a PM.

 

He had issues with the hurricane 2 and the voltage drop from the batterys, he fixed it with a dc-dc transformer. Belive Gary rates these heaters highly which is one of the reasons one is on my shopping list.

[Bob the welder]

Hi, we have a 57ft narrowboat which has done well over the previous year. To date we've been happy to use the Morso solid fuel burning stove. However, it's not without problems. The stove burns a ton of fuel, is either to cold or boiling hot and, again, means frequent trips for more logs etc.

This winter the boat has suffered a lot of damp. Tomorrow I'm going back to check on her and hope I can at least get a 1KW blow fire going via Marina shoreline - but even that's not a given as the shoreline current is pretty erratic.

I've been thinking of installing a central heating system (maybe Eberspacher?) but am frankly bewildered by air heaters vs water heaters etc. I also don't have the know-how to fit it myself.

If anyone else has been down this road, what central heating system did you fit, is it any good, and did it involve selling the family silver to afford it?

Any advice would be welcome.

hi .stik with the stove the shoreline will not take a 1kw heater .

[Bat & Frog]

He had issues with the hurricane 2 and the voltage drop from the batterys, he fixed it with a dc-dc transformer. Belive Gary rates these heaters highly which is one of the reasons one is on my shopping list.

 

A friend who fitted a hurricane has been using it for the last 2 1/2 years and rates them highly. Especially as you fit and forget, low maintainance compared to other makes.

 

I understand they will cut out at low volts but this is a safety feature and most heaters will. When I have the money spare I hope to add to the list.

[Chris Pink]

If anyone else has been down this road, what central heating system did you fit, is it any good, and did it involve selling the family silver to afford it?

Any advice would be welcome.

 

Most points have been covered, but maybe one other; if you fit back boiler and radiator(s) to your Squirrel you will even out the heat in the boat and the Squirrel will have to work a bit harder and is less likely to get over hot.

 

 

 

I'm replacing my Mikuni with a Hurricane as they have the reputation for making marine heaters for 24/7 use!

 

Ever curious i did a few sums and at .84 l hr^-1 it costs around £14 to run one of these beasts for 24 hours.

 

That's for 7.3 kw, a little more than a Squirrel but less than a Rayburn, either of which can be kept in 24 hours for around £4

Edited January 22, 2010 by Chris Pink

[Robbo]

A friend who fitted a hurricane has been using it for the last 2 1/2 years and rates them highly. Especially as you fit and forget, low maintainance compared to other makes.

 

I understand they will cut out at low volts but this is a safety feature and most heaters will. When I have the money spare I hope to add to the list.

 

The Hurricane 2 was a little more picker that the original Hurricane on a quick voltage drop, that was Gary's issue so he solved with a DC-DC transformer, I don't know if Hurricane have "fixed".

 

Good to know that others rate the Hurricane as well, I'm glad I found a heater that will do what I want and is a simple replacement for the Mikuni. (I don't really have the option of a flue, so choice was more limited).

 

Ever curious i did a few sums and at .84 l hr^-1 it costs around £14 to run one of these beasts for 24 hours.

 

That's for 7.3 kw, a little more than a Squirrel but less than a Rayburn, either of which can be kept in 24 hours for around £4

 

The Squirrel is rated at 4.5 kw and uses 0.54l an hour...

 

7.5 / 0.84 = 0.115 litres per kw

4.5 / 0.54 = 0.12 litres per kw

 

So I would say they are the same...

[The Anonymous Bard]

<snipped>

 

Ever curious i did a few sums and at .84 l hr^-1 it costs around £14 to run one of these beasts for 24 hours.

 

That's for 7.3 kw, a little more than a Squirrel but less than a Rayburn, either of which can be kept in 24 hours for around £4

 

We looked at the Hurricane a few months ago after hearing very good reports and to be honest i'd pretty much forgotton about it since, favouring the oil powered Heritage or similar for the central heating but the Hurricane does appear to be a very viable alternative although the costs for 24/7 use are a bit frightening to say the least.

 

Maybe as a secondary heater for a couple of hours before getting up in a morning and again before coming back at night, with the main source of ongoing heat via a solid fuel stove, it could be ideal if the reliability issues are not the same as many of the others?

 

Would be interesting to hear from more Hurricane owners...

[Robbo]

We looked at the Hurricane a few months ago after hearing very good reports and to be honest i'd pretty much forgotton about it since, favouring the oil powered Heritage or similar for the central heating but the Hurricane does appear to be a very viable alternative although the costs for 24/7 use are a bit frightening to say the least.

 

Maybe as a secondary heater for a couple of hours before getting up in a morning and again before coming back at night, with the main source of ongoing heat via a solid fuel stove, it could be ideal if the reliability issues are not the same as many of the others?

 

The figure that Chris said is not real world, and the £4 (presume for coal) won't produce the same amount heat (no where near!).

 

The Hurricane is like your gas boiler at home, it's only on when a thermostat calls for heat, it switches itself off when the temperature of the room or hot water is reached.

 

The actual cost of running either a solid fuel or diesel heater all depends on your boat insulation, outside temperature, hot water usage and how hot you want the boat!

 

Solid fuel is cheaper to run than a diesel heater as it's slightly cheaper £ per BTU. For some BTU figures looks here http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Wha...ourcetables.htm - remember it's in US Gallons, when I did some quick calcs I got around soild fuel is around 2% to 20% cheaper than diesel per BTU - although this is not including the efficiency of the heater.

 

Diesel heater advantages over soild fuel stove; Timer and thermostat capabilities, fuel storage (no heavy bags to lug around/store), no ash/dust, hot water without need for heating boat / using main engine.

 

Solid Fuel advantages over diesel heater; Basic therefore reliable, homely real fire feel, cheaper to run (esp. if you have a free wood source), initial cost of heater, no electric power required, air circulation.

 

 

Edit to add, if you can use Kerosene (cheaper than coal per BTU), but it's harder to get on the cut, if your building the boat, get two diesel tanks, one at around 600litres so you can get Kerosene delivered directly.

 

Another edit to add; no electric power required, air circulation to the solid fuel advantage's.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Robbo

[The Anonymous Bard]

The figure that Chris said is not real world, and the £4 (presume for coal) won't produce the same amount heat (no where near!).

 

The Hurricane is like your gas boiler at home, it's only on when a thermostat calls for heat, it switches itself off when the temperature of the room or hot water is reached.

 

The actual cost of running either a solid fuel or diesel heater all depends on your boat insulation, outside temperature, hot water usage and how hot you want the boat!

 

Solid fuel is cheaper to run than a diesel heater as it's slightly cheaper £ per BTU. For some BTU figures looks here http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Wha...ourcetables.htm - remember it's in US Gallons, when I did some quick calcs I got around soild fuel is around 2% to 20% cheaper than diesel per BTU - although this is not including the efficiency of the heater.

 

Diesel heater advantages over soild fuel stove; Timer and thermostat capabilities, fuel storage (no heavy bags to lug around/store), no ash/dust, hot water without need for heating boat / using main engine.

 

Solid Fuel advantages over diesel heater; Basic therefore reliable, homely real fire feel, cheaper to run (esp. if you have a free wood source), initial cost of heater, no electric power required, air circulation.

 

 

Edit to add, if you can use Kerosene (cheaper than coal per BTU), but it's harder to get on the cut, if your building the boat, get two diesel tanks, one at around 600litres so you can get Kerosene delivered directly.

 

Another edit to add; no electric power required, air circulation to the solid fuel advantage's.

 

Thanks for that, it looks the ideal way to go if we decide against the high initial costs of a Heritage.

 

We will be having separate tanks built for heating and propulsion so the kerosene tip is very useful, can the other makes of heater units also run on this and would running on kerosene do away with the problems brought about by inconsistent diesel?

[mike-h]

Most points have been covered, but maybe one other; if you fit back boiler and radiator(s) to your Squirrel you will even out the heat in the boat and the Squirrel will have to work a bit harder and is less likely to get over hot.

 

 

Except when the water pump fails and then youve got a boat full of steam & boiling water! Is it safe to leave boat unattended or at night with Morso and pump running?

[Robbo]

Except when the water pump fails and then youve got a boat full of steam & boiling water! Is it safe to leave boat unattended or at night with Morso and pump running?

 

Every back boiler should have a gravity fed radiator big enough to stop this happening. If you plan the radiators and pipe work you can just use gravity and do away with the pump.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Robbo

[mike-h]

Every back boiler should have a gravity fed radiator big enough to stop this happening. If you plan the radiators and pipe work you can just use gravity and do away with the pump.

 

That sounds good. How do you convert an existing pumped system into a gravity one?

[Robbo]

That sounds good. How do you convert an existing pumped system into a gravity one?

 

It's mainly in the pipe-work, it's been discussed plenty of times on CWDF, here's one.. http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26906

 

It's worth still keeping and using the pump as it does circulate the water better.