NB Tia May Electric Drive Conversion

[foxhound_mike]

depends on the fuel used at the source of the power, doesn't it?

 

not really

 

the worst case in terms of environmental damage would be your ageing coal fired station without any heat reclaim. Even this will exhibit a much higher efficiency than a small diesel generator or a boat engine running an alternator to supply 12v DC which wastes huge amounts of heat (fuel energy) and is optimised for size and cost rather than efficient use of fuel.

 

in the UK the market system really ensures that the cheapest suppliers are used to provide the countrys energy needs which means that Nuclear and efficient stations such as CHP or two stage generation stations have the advantage and consequently get a larger share of the marketplace. In essence older less efficient stations struggle to compete.

 

If you start factoring in things like wind generation (currently 15% of UK demand) then theres really no contest. Its grid generation all the way.

 

I still like the idea of the floating sauna running from reject heat from the engine though.....and you haven't got much choice if you've got no shorepower connection.

 

later

 

Mike

[Redeye]

One thing to worry about if you do end up over powered:

Once cavitation starts to happen and the prop loses its 'grip' on the water, the electric motor will acelerate it much faster than an equivalent diesel. The resulting spikes in the motor current can then trip the control gear, which (in our case) then needs a full shutdown to reset. We've only had it happen once and as soon as two controllers tripped the resulting drop in power brought the other two back under control, so no big deal.

 

If you have excess power and only one motor you need to be a bit careful about applying 'full throttle'.

 

Hi John

 

I believe that with 20KW i will be overpowered but one advantage is that I can modify time to full speed on the controller so should be able to get round any cavitation issues that might arise. The control gear I am using also automatically limits currents and tapers power if the voltage drops below predetermined levels so it should hopefully be reasonably robust so I am hoping that it will be difficult to break! One other advantage that I have is that I am geared 1 to 1 I would have liked to directly couple the motor to the shaft but I am struggling for space as this is a retrofit onto an existing installation. I will try and get some pics up this week as we are progressing with the installation.

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

 

Hi

 

Do you know what sort of voltages are used on milk floats and forklifts?

 

Cheers

 

Hi

 

I think most milkfloats are based around 48V my installation is a 72v installation mainly because it allows you to run smaller currents. Forklifts to my knowledge ate between 24v and 72v depending on size and duty.

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

[Redeye]

Hi Andrew.

 

We looked at fitting an all electric system, but were brought down to earth by forum members. I say this not in any negative way, because drawing on collective wisdom is one of the reasons i joined, and very instructive it has been.

 

I suppose we all have vague ideas that we think will be workable and that was me. It took a reality check from members here to adapt my reasoning, but i believe my ideal is still way off kilter for most. I admire you for "Going for it", and will follow with interest your progress and wish you all the very best in your journey.

 

I am lacking in any technical knowledge, and therefore somewhat naieve.

 

After much prevarication, i thought sod it. Go for a traditional set up, Beta 43 or the like, possibly fully cocooned. This would have a travelpower fitted and would do the job.

 

But...

 

Still like the idea of an amount of silent propulsion. Like you i have explored Hybrid Marine, Thames electric and systems of similar ilk, but they just do not add up somehow!

 

So, just what do i want?

 

1. Single power source, a reliable base engine with provenanance in the muddy ditch enviroment.

2. Ability to power onboard systems.

3. Ability to recharge a reasonable battery bank whilst cruising.

4. Regenerative motor to also enable a limited amount of silent propulsion.

 

So, a modern engine with a hybrid function, that does not rely on bolt on's and belts.

 

Saw a "Steyr" system that ticked all the boxes, but was a blue water product unsuited to the canal enviroment.

 

Then saw Nannidiesel's Hybrid, with the generator/motor inline and fitted between the engine and the gearbox, and thought, thats it for me. Best of both worlds.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Well used to being flamed.

 

John.

 

John

 

I went through an extensive research phase and liker the Nanni diesels flywheel mounted option but ultimately wanted to find a solution that would allow me to disconnect the drive from the diesel and just use it as a generator. This is difficult with the dc drives as none of them are quite big enough for tidal river use without fitting multiple units and gearing. For me the AC system ticks all the boxes in this respect. The controller on the AC system is very advanced and allows full tuning of the system, in addition I liked the idea of a bog standard induction motor with no brushes, these run day in day out on industrial processes for many thousands of hours per year with little or no maintenance, the reliability aspect really appealed. There are a number of other advantages of the AC system in that you get the torque over a much wider range wich allows you to dispense with reduction gearing, the slight disadvantage is that the motors tend to be a little larger, mine will sit on top of the swim slightly to one side to allow ease of access for maintenance.

 

I guess the proof of the pudding will be when we start cruising!

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

[soldthehouse]

Hi

 

Do you know what sort of voltages are used on milk floats and forklifts?

 

Cheers

Hello forklifts are generally 72volts made up of 36x 2volt cells hope this helps...

[Redeye]

not really

 

the worst case in terms of environmental damage would be your ageing coal fired station without any heat reclaim. Even this will exhibit a much higher efficiency than a small diesel generator or a boat engine running an alternator to supply 12v DC which wastes huge amounts of heat (fuel energy) and is optimised for size and cost rather than efficient use of fuel.

 

in the UK the market system really ensures that the cheapest suppliers are used to provide the countrys energy needs which means that Nuclear and efficient stations such as CHP or two stage generation stations have the advantage and consequently get a larger share of the marketplace. In essence older less efficient stations struggle to compete.

 

If you start factoring in things like wind generation (currently 15% of UK demand) then theres really no contest. Its grid generation all the way.

 

I still like the idea of the floating sauna running from reject heat from the engine though.....and you haven't got much choice if you've got no shorepower connection.

 

later

 

Mike

 

Mike

 

Any idea what BWB charge when you plug in to their supply? I have no idea but someone must have a number

 

Andrew

Edited January 11, 2010 by Redeye

[barge sara]

Any idea what BWB charge when you plug in to their supply? I have no idea but someone must have a number

 

I don't think BW know what they charge, it seems to vary considerably from place to place.

As I reported in an earlier post, we charged up at Clarence Dock in Leeds and spent £1, which effectively covered 5 hours cruising and 2 days domestic use including cooking and water heating.

That equates to about 35KWh which gives a rate of less than 3p per KWh.

 

Our marina charges 11.85p per KWH.

Best rate at present from a normal domestic supplier is about 8p to 10p.

 

Edited to say:

I beleive there is some legislation preventing electricity being resold at an extortionate profit, so you could probably safely asume a cost in the region of 12p per KWH.

HTH.

Edited January 11, 2010 by barge sara

[ditchcrawler]

John

 

I went through an extensive research phase and liker the Nanni diesels flywheel mounted option but ultimately wanted to find a solution that would allow me to disconnect the drive from the diesel and just use it as a generator. This is difficult with the dc drives as none of them are quite big enough for tidal river use without fitting multiple units and gearing. For me the AC system ticks all the boxes in this respect. The controller on the AC system is very advanced and allows full tuning of the system, in addition I liked the idea of a bog standard induction motor with no brushes, these run day in day out on industrial processes for many thousands of hours per year with little or no maintenance, the reliability aspect really appealed. There are a number of other advantages of the AC system in that you get the torque over a much wider range wich allows you to dispense with reduction gearing, the slight disadvantage is that the motors tend to be a little larger, mine will sit on top of the swim slightly to one side to allow ease of access for maintenance.

 

I guess the proof of the pudding will be when we start cruising!

 

Cheers

 

Andrew

There is, or was a boat moored in Napton Marina with an AC electric engine, but I think its 3 phase, I think the name is Baud Maud or something similar,but its a long time since the owner posted anything on the other lists.