Is this a good heating choice?

[sebrof]

Hello,

 

I have acquired a Dutch barge to live aboard, and have been doing just that for the past fortnight. Very cold, no water, quite an introduction to life afloat!

 

Within this short timescale I have developed a wish-list of improvements, and should be very grateful for your comments and suggestions.

 

No 1 concerns heating. The barge has two solid fuel stoves, makes unknown. The one in the saloon works fine, though is rather messy. The one in the skipper's cabin at the rear supplies hot water and feeds five radiators, using a pump. It is very smoky, needs a lot of attention, and fills the cabin with smoke whenever the door is open.

 

There is also a leaking Ebersbacher, which the previous owner installed, and wishes he hadn't; and, of course, the engine also heats the water.

 

I occasionally need to leave the barge unattended for a few days, and want to leave some heating on. I also want to wake up to a warm boat. Presently the fore-cabin goes down to just above freezing overnight, which necessitates a supreme act of will to get out of bed in the morning.

 

This suggests to me that I should replace the rear stove with a drip-fed diesel stove with boiler, such as a Glemring or Bubble, augmented by some sort of gas water heater for summer. The stove in the saloon can stay for extra heating on cold nights.

 

I would need a competent installer. The boat is on the K&A.

 

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

Thanks

 

John

[Tony Brooks]

I know they have a over-level cut out on them but nothing would persuade me to leave a drip feed stove running when I was away from the boat for any length of time.

 

Have you had a good go at the stove pipe in the cabin? I may be all but blocked with soot and gunge!

[DHutch]

I have no experience of either drip fed diesal stoves or the ebersbacher/webastow heaters.

 

However certainly i would say an instant gas heater of some sort is the way i would be heating my water in summer when not crusing along. We have a Paloma (now morco) which heats our water when the engines not running and neather the stove.

- There are also the Aldi boiler, which will supply heat to the boat from a gas. Expensive way to heat the boat if used a lot, but prehaps an option for time-controled heating to heat the boat while your away which im not sure how well the drip-fed stoves do if at all?

 

We have a Morso Squirel on emilyanne which does the gallery and heats a number of small radiators via the back boiler (it also heats the hot water, but very slowly, and for the number of times we use the boat went not running the engine we just use the gasheater) and its a cracking little stove. Prehaps a little small for a whole widebeam but there are large versions avalable (badger?) else it would do a room or two as its rated at about 5kw.

What is the flu/chimney arangment for the rear (smokey) stove? The ideal setup imo is sold flu upto dceck hight and then a decent twin skin chimmey on the outside (with or without rolled up tin extension). But if the total lenght is still too short prehaps you need a longer chimmey

 

 

Daniel

[GUMPY]

I know they have a over-level cut out on them but nothing would persuade me to leave a drip feed stove running when I was away from the boat for any length of time.

 

Depends on the stove and the installation

I had diesel stoves that have been left on 24/7 for months even when I was away for a week. However there was an addition that does not come with any stoves that I am aware of. This is a fire valve that was set at 70degC so if the temperature at the stove went above 70C then the diesel supply was cut off. This is the same type of valve that is mandatory on household oil boilers.

Most are fitted with a flame failure valve that cuts off the supply if the stove goes out, so really 97% of the danger from failure has been negated provided the valves dont fail, but then where do you draw the line.

[sebrof]

I know they have a over-level cut out on them but nothing would persuade me to leave a drip feed stove running when I was away from the boat for any length of time.

 

Well, I take your point about leaving it unattended. However, I've had a wick-burning Rayburn on land which I happily leave running when away, and it's hard to think of a way it could actually be dangerous. Messy if it goes out, but unlikely to catch fire. And it's never gone out of its own accord in nearly thirty years.

 

Perhaps these stoves also need a cut-out if the temperature drops below a level which shows it is working.

 

Going away for more than a day with nobody aboard is not likely to be very frequent, and no doubt a good clean/service (and a good filter) would help to minimise risk. Have you heard of such a stove setting fire to anything? I'd be interested to hear other views/experiences.

 

Have you had a good go at the stove pipe in the cabin? I may be all but blocked with soot and gunge!

Valid point about the flue. Are there special brushes, and any ideas where to get them in Wiltshire? However, I do really want to get away from solid fuel for daily use, so this would be a stop-gap improvement rather than a long-term solution.

 

Thanks

 

John

[carlt]

Valid point about the flue. Are there special brushes, and any ideas where to get them in Wiltshire? However, I do really want to get away from solid fuel for daily use, so this would be a stop-gap improvement rather than a long-term solution.

 

Thanks

 

John

There are flue brushes available. Ask your local SF supplier.

 

Your old xmas tree, with a rope tied to it and pulled through, works, too.

[Tony Brooks]

Well, I take your point about leaving it unattended. However, I've had a wick-burning Rayburn on land which I happily leave running when away, and it's hard to think of a way it could actually be dangerous. Messy if it goes out, but unlikely to catch fire. And it's never gone out of its own accord in nearly thirty years.

 

Perhaps these stoves also need a cut-out if the temperature drops below a level which shows it is working.

 

Going away for more than a day with nobody aboard is not likely to be very frequent, and no doubt a good clean/service (and a good filter) would help to minimise risk. Have you heard of such a stove setting fire to anything? I'd be interested to hear other views/experiences.

 

 

Valid point about the flue. Are there special brushes, and any ideas where to get them in Wiltshire? However, I do really want to get away from solid fuel for daily use, so this would be a stop-gap improvement rather than a long-term solution.

 

Thanks

 

John

 

 

Although fire would be a concern, I would also be thinking about the effect of control failing and allowing fuel to spill into the boat. I have found the smell of spilt diesel very hard to remove from boat interiors.

[bigjohn]

Hello,

 

I have acquired a Dutch barge to live aboard, and have been doing just that for the past fortnight. Very cold, no water, quite an introduction to life afloat!

 

Within this short timescale I have developed a wish-list of improvements, and should be very grateful for your comments and suggestions.

 

No 1 concerns heating. The barge has two solid fuel stoves, makes unknown. The one in the saloon works fine, though is rather messy. The one in the skipper's cabin at the rear supplies hot water and feeds five radiators, using a pump. It is very smoky, needs a lot of attention, and fills the cabin with smoke whenever the door is open.

 

There is also a leaking Ebersbacher, which the previous owner installed, and wishes he hadn't; and, of course, the engine also heats the water.

 

I occasionally need to leave the barge unattended for a few days, and want to leave some heating on. I also want to wake up to a warm boat. Presently the fore-cabin goes down to just above freezing overnight, which necessitates a supreme act of will to get out of bed in the morning.

 

This suggests to me that I should replace the rear stove with a drip-fed diesel stove with boiler, such as a Glemring or Bubble, augmented by some sort of gas water heater for summer. The stove in the saloon can stay for extra heating on cold nights.

 

I would need a competent installer. The boat is on the K&A.

 

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

Thanks

 

John

[Water Woman]

My squirrel was smoking badly recently and the chimney was fine. I had a boat full of smoke which has left a lingering odour on curtains, clothes etc. I let it go cold then the whole thing was cleared out, there was a bit of a channel with crud and gunge build up which was only allowing a small amount of smoke to get up the chimney. Once that was done it was (and is) fine now.

[bigjohn]

I inherited a diesel Bubble stove when I bought my present boat a year ago. I am very pleased with it having had Eberspacher central heating (expensive and unreliable) and two solid fuel stoves on my previous boats. The bubble stove lights easily and just simmers away with an Ecofan on the top which spreads the heat around the cabin. Solid fuel stoves are fine but they need to be kept lit and of course there is the coal/fuel to store and the ash to remove. I don't get that lovely smell of wood/cole smoke at this time of the year but if I need a fix of that I go and have a walk past the other boats!I cured diesel smells by fixing a couple of small leaks.

 

I share other concerns about the fuel cut-off in the event of a flame failure. There isn't one on my stove as far as I can see. The only cut-offs I can find are a 'motion cut-off' which works if for example I clout a lock and a high water temperature cut-off. As I have isolated the back boiler (& drained and vented it - the boat was fitted with a Jabsco circ pump for the CH which was noisy and drained the batteries so the CH is now out of commission) the water probe does not now work. Because there is no flame failure cut-off that I can find (yet it seems to be a standard Bubble Stove) I don't like leaving the boat for more than an hour or so unattended and certainly not if it is windy or there is danger of blow back.

 

So, its relatively early days and I'm ready to learn more about it but so far I'm very pleased with my diesel stove.

[GUMPY]

There has been one case that I know of where a Dickinson I think it was went up in flames.

This was on a boat called Bream a couple of years ago.

 

This is a fire valve in case the stove goes up in flames

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/079.asp#16702

NOT fitted to most stoves but is an easy DIY job

 

Kabola stoves are fitted with these that stop the flow if the stove goes out

http://www.kuranda.co.uk/chandlery/kabola-...ple-sensor.html

http://www.kuranda.co.uk/chandlery/kabola-...uple-valve.html

 

Personally I would only go for a stove fitted with the above.

[sebrof]

There are flue brushes available. Ask your local SF supplier.

 

Your old xmas tree, with a rope tied to it and pulled through, works, too.

 

Here in Wiltshire, the price of Christmas trees was truly frightening. So we got a re-usable plastic one.

 

 

There has been one case that I know of where a Dickinson I think it was went up in flames.

This was on a boat called Bream a couple of years ago.

 

This is a fire valve in case the stove goes up in flames

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/079.asp#16702

NOT fitted to most stoves but is an easy DIY job

 

Kabola stoves are fitted with these that stop the flow if the stove goes out

http://www.kuranda.co.uk/chandlery/kabola-...ple-sensor.html

http://www.kuranda.co.uk/chandlery/kabola-...uple-valve.html

 

Personally I would only go for a stove fitted with the above.

 

Thanks. I agree.

 

John

Edited December 28, 2009 by sebrof

[sebrof]

.......... So, its relatively early days and I'm ready to learn more about it but so far I'm very pleased with my diesel stove.

 

Thanks. Very helpful.

 

John

[Tony Brooks]

I inherited a diesel Bubble stove when I bought my present boat a year ago. I am very pleased with it having had Eberspacher central heating (expensive and unreliable) and two solid fuel stoves on my previous boats. The bubble stove lights easily and just simmers away with an Ecofan on the top which spreads the heat around the cabin. Solid fuel stoves are fine but they need to be kept lit and of course there is the coal/fuel to store and the ash to remove. I don't get that lovely smell of wood/cole smoke at this time of the year but if I need a fix of that I go and have a walk past the other boats!I cured diesel smells by fixing a couple of small leaks.

 

I share other concerns about the fuel cut-off in the event of a flame failure. There isn't one on my stove as far as I can see. The only cut-offs I can find are a 'motion cut-off' which works if for example I clout a lock and a high water temperature cut-off. As I have isolated the back boiler (& drained and vented it - the boat was fitted with a Jabsco circ pump for the CH which was noisy and drained the batteries so the CH is now out of commission) the water probe does not now work. Because there is no flame failure cut-off that I can find (yet it seems to be a standard Bubble Stove) I don't like leaving the boat for more than an hour or so unattended and certainly not if it is windy or there is danger of blow back.

 

So, its relatively early days and I'm ready to learn more about it but so far I'm very pleased with my diesel stove.

 

 

I think all these stoves employ a float and needle valve to maintain the fuel level in the control "box" a fraction above the height of the bottom of the burner pot so if the flame did go out it should not flood or anything. Again, without inspecting a modern control, there is also a larger float that is supposed to cut the fuel supply off if the level in the control rises above a certain level so again it should not flood - that is until you get a bit of crud under a valve and it only takes the equivalent of a drip every few minutes to eventually fill the burner pot right up until it overflows. It theory it should never flood but...............

[GUMPY]

I think all these stoves employ a float and needle valve to maintain the fuel level in the control "box" a fraction above the height of the bottom of the burner pot so if the flame did go out it should not flood or anything. Again, without inspecting a modern control, there is also a larger float that is supposed to cut the fuel supply off if the level in the control rises above a certain level so again it should not flood - that is until you get a bit of crud under a valve and it only takes the equivalent of a drip every few minutes to eventually fill the burner pot right up until it overflows. It theory it should never flood but...............

 

And as I have said many times if fitted with a thermocouple with a valve then floats don't come into it.

No flame no fuel........

[bigjohn]

Thanks for that info. It certainly makes sense. I will have another look at the instruction book when I next visit the boat to check that it will cut off the fuel in the event of it going out. So far I have reassured myself that as it only uses about 0.25 litre/hour max even if it did go out it would take 10 hours to collect 2.5 litres in the pot and there is a good sized saveall all around the stove.

 

The only 'scare' I've had with it so far was on a very windy day at Grindley Brook services when I was walking back to the boat and saw a big cloud of smoke coming out of the cabin. The stove had blown out with the blow back down the chimney. I am looking to fit a wind deflector on the chimney to top to stop it happening again.

 

All in all it is much easier to operate and maintain than all my other previous forms of heating. I spent many unhappy hours with my Eberspacher stripping it down and ordering highly expensive spares for it!! On my first boat the back flu plug of the morso squirrel solid fuel stove fell out and before I found out it nearly killed me with Carbon Monoxide. I have fitted CO alarms ever since!!

[J R]

Well, I take your point about leaving it unattended. However, I've had a wick-burning Rayburn on land which I happily leave running when away, and it's hard to think of a way it could actually be dangerous. Messy if it goes out, but unlikely to catch fire. And it's never gone out of its own accord in nearly thirty years.

 

Perhaps these stoves also need a cut-out if the temperature drops below a level which shows it is working.

 

Going away for more than a day with nobody aboard is not likely to be very frequent, and no doubt a good clean/service (and a good filter) would help to minimise risk. Have you heard of such a stove setting fire to anything? I'd be interested to hear other views/experiences.

 

 

Valid point about the flue. Are there special brushes, and any ideas where to get them in Wiltshire? However, I do really want to get away from solid fuel for daily use, so this would be a stop-gap improvement rather than a long-term solution.

 

Thanks

 

John

 

Roses in Devizes are the best place to seek out a flue brush. Brilliant hardware store; virtually opposit sainsburys. Would definatly not leave our diesel Bubble stove on while away for a few days as they do need a bit of attention every now and again we have found, also the cost of running it. Brilliant bit of kit, and the diesel version saves carrying wood/coal etc. They are easy to get started and heat up very quickly, and with an Eco fan keep the whole place cosy.

 

A diesel heater like a Webasto will also heat hot water and central heating. In the summer, if we don't run the engine, we isolate the rads and only heat up the hot water. Yes, you can do this, despite what some people say. Webasto also do a 7 day on off timer at about £70 or £80 which can be retro fitted in place of the 'basic' timer. Its a bolt off/bolt on job-no extra wiring etc. Heard that they work quite well, so this might help you in the morning and keep the place heated when you are away.