Trad or Cruiser stern?

[Ange]

do you have a picture of that seat?

Funny enough I was just looking through my pics to see if I do and unfortunately not. I'll take a pic when we get back to the boat and post it on here - it's a clever idea

[Guest]

Same as ours! as in the pics we sent you.

 

Indeed - thought the same when I saw them.

[Liam]

Mmmm ....

 

For me standing for six hours ain't an option, stiff back. aching feet etc etc.

 

I need to sit for at least some of the time, getting old maybe.

 

Yep you must be getting old

[Guest]

Yep you must be getting old

But thankfully a lot wiser grasshopper....

[Dalesman]

I hope you don't allow anyone to sit on that while it's moving...

 

For that reason they have been nicknamed tory seats, but suicide seats would also be a good name

I use it when on long straight lengths, as does my wife, better than her standing on the side of the boat and hanging on like so many do. However no one sits down when we are going into locks etc. Never had a problem getting on or off the boat either, but then each to his own..!! Oh yes by the way our tiller is not under my arm pit like so many other boats I see about..!!

[Chertsey]

Something I have noticed, particularly on cruiser sterns (which might just be where it's more visible) is that the tiller may be at a comfortable height, but the steerer has to lean forward and/or bend down to reach the morse control. Sometimes this makes manoeuvring look very uncomfortable.

 

Even on straight lengths, there's no telling when the rudder might hit something under the water and cause the tiller to swing round unexpectedly. I would contend that the gunnel - even if not ideally comfortable - is at all times a safer place to be than within range of the tiller. I'm not one of these people who 'doesn't allow' crew/guests/loved ones to do things, but anyone who stands within range of the tiller when I'm steering quickly gets the message of what could happen. (and no, I don't actually push them in. A couple of prods in the ribs and they realise what could happen)

[GSer]

I feel at the end of the day you will put up with what you've got, when I first decided to get a narrow boat I started looking for a portholed trad with an engine room, I was convinced that was the style I wanted, i ended up falling in love with a square windowed cruiser sterned Gary Gorton hulled boat with a fantastic interior.

 

Now 10 years on I've started to look about again at trads with engine rooms, in fact i've found a nice one, everytime i look at it i feel i'm being drawn to the dark side, it looks impractical, standing in the cockpit(?) on a wet day surely the back cabin will get soaked, there is no room at the rear to be sociable when steering etc etc I'm still besotted by it though and I doubt you'll here me moan about it (well not that much anyway)

 

I'm as excited about this new boat now, as I was when I first got Berengaria

 

 

Oh yes! If you fancy a really nice cruiser sterned ( but not with handrails, it has a cabin shaped like a semitrad), well equipped for live aboards, with cratch & cover and a pram cover at the rear, 65ft narrowboat, with a cabinet maker fitted solid ash & afromosa interior that even experienced boatbuilders and craftsmen say wow! when they see it, then get in touch.

 

Paul

[alan_fincher]

Trying to take a balanced view here....

 

I can see the upside and downsides of all the stern types, and what is the best compromise will almost certainly differ on a person by person basis.

 

I also agree that there are risks associated with each type, and ones which one often appear to not be realised by those doing the boating, (or which they knew about but have forgotten or otherwise dismissed).

 

Clearly people can get swept in by a tiller, and, in the most disastrous cases, people have died as a result, (the Canaltime incident at - I think - Alrewas, for example).

 

However there have been boats with low tillers and low stern rails for many, many a year, and I actually think the incidence of such occurrences is very low, despite many used by the inexperienced.

 

Not to say it doesn't happen, but I personally have never experienced, nor even heard of, a tiller being forced violently to one side when a narrowboat is moving forwards in a fairly straight line. The physics rather go against it, as a tiller is usually pretty well "covered" behind the swim, skeg and propeller of the boat. If none of those items have been violently deflected by an item on the canal bed, it is really quite hard for the tiller to be, in forward motion.

 

Yes it's lowest edge may get caught in "shale" or silt on the bottom, and maybe held in a straight line, or deflected slightly, but if 60 or 70% of it is trailing, generally you are going to struggle to violently hit the leading edge on something when moving forward, (or at least to do so and still have a skeg and propeller!).

 

I think the risks when moving forward are much overstated.

 

What is undoubtedly true is that it becomes a whole different ball-game when reversing. A rudder rammed into rocks, or against the edge, when moving smartly backwards can easily sweep the tiller round in an uncontrolled way, taking with it all in it's path, (undoubtedly what happened in the tragic incident already referred to, and some suggestion that the same may have occurred at the Cropredy fatality ??).

 

So, although I personally don't like stern seats, taff rails, rear rails, or standing outside the hatch to steer, I do think people get paranoid about this when cruising normally. But in reverse, I believe a steerer should make absolutely sure that neither themselves,. or anybody else on board, is within the arc of the tiller, (whatever the "stern type"). A collision with an unexpected underwater object, or the edge, can be far more serious in these cases, irrespective of whether there are any seats, boxes or rails.

[Guest]

Something I have noticed, particularly on cruiser sterns (which might just be where it's more visible) is that the tiller may be at a comfortable height, but the steerer has to lean forward and/or bend down to reach the morse control. Sometimes this makes manoeuvring look very uncomfortable.

That's a fair point - and I think there is more of a tendency for this on cruiser sterns, rather it just being more visible.

 

Depending on where the control is and the height of the steerer it can be awkward when bending to adjust the speed, steer the boat and see over the length of the boat - Jan commented she needed a step to stand on (but then of course she'd have to bend further down to reach the control)

[Chertsey]

Now 10 years on I've started to look about again at trads with engine rooms, in fact i've found a nice one, everytime i look at it i feel i'm being drawn to the dark side, it looks impractical, standing in the cockpit(?) on a wet day surely the back cabin will get soaked, there is no room at the rear to be sociable when steering etc etc I'm still besotted by it though and I doubt you'll here me moan about it (well not that much anyway)

No, you shut the doors behind you, pull the slide to a bit... the stove keeps your legs nice and warm. Some water will get in, but your body's filling most of the space. The water will run down you onto the step and drip down either to the floor, where it can easily be contained with an old towel (which can then be dried in the engine room) or possible even run straight into the bilge. You're far more sheltered and you don't have to worry about water getting into the engine bay. Plus you've got your engine room to dry all the wet stuff.

[Naughty Cal]

No one has pointed out that you can get a proper boat with sociable seating for 6 around the wheel under canvas for weather protection

 

(Can i have my coat now?)

[alan_fincher]

No one has pointed out that you can get a proper boat with sociable seating for 6 around the wheel under canvas for weather protection

Or that such a boat will not fit in locks on well over 50% of the canal network!

[Guest]

What is undoubtedly true is that it becomes a whole different ball-game when reversing. A rudder rammed into rocks, or against the edge, when moving smartly backwards can easily sweep the tiller round in an uncontrolled way, taking with it all in it's path, (undoubtedly what happened in the tragic incident already referred to, and some suggestion that the same may have occurred at the Cropredy fatality ??).

 

Certainly can vouch for this - we had a sticky moment passing through a windy bridge last week and had to reverse pretty sharpish, with the rudder making first contact with something at the edge below the water line the tiller was spun away from the steerer (Jan) and pulled the tiller out of her hand - had it come the other way it would have hit pretty hard if not knocked somebody off the stern.

 

Reading yours and WW's post above and reflecting on the incident referred to above will make be think very carefully about where people are when reversing.

[Naughty Cal]

Or that such a boat will not fit in locks on well over 50% of the canal network!

 

No but it can use some lumpy water instead

[GSer]

No, you shut the doors behind you, pull the slide to a bit... the stove keeps your legs nice and warm. Some water will get in, but your body's filling most of the space. The water will run down you onto the step and drip down either to the floor, where it can easily be contained with an old towel (which can then be dried in the engine room) or possible even run straight into the bilge. You're far more sheltered and you don't have to worry about water getting into the engine bay. Plus you've got your engine room to dry all the wet stuff.

 

 

I'm certainly looking forward to the engine room, proper boy's (and some girl's) toys

 

Thanks for the tip

 

Paul

[Doorman]

Hello all,

Although I am sure this topic has been raised many times, and caused some heated debate no doubt, I have not been able to find it using the search.

My question is this: For year-round use of a narrowboat, continuous cruising with some week (or two) stops for exploring, which stern is best?

I have provisionally come to the conclusion that a trad stern is best for the following reasons:

Some shelter from the weather.

More space in the boat and hence a space for wet clothes to be taken off (engine room?).

Enough room for 2 people on the stern when required and the front seating area for relaxing and chatting, away from the engine noise.

Perhaps I am missing something? Is a cruiser stern with a canvas cockpit a better option?

I am particularly interested since I have been shown a 'cruiser stern' narrowboat that looks very good value and ticks most of my boxes, it's just that stern!

Thanks,

John

 

As always, it's down to personal choice.

 

Our current boat has a cruiser stern and we've had two very enjoyable years on her, although I must add, when sailng up the river Ribble

towards Preston Dock Marina, I did feel a bit vulnerable!

 

Our next boat has a traditional stern which we now prefer. I'm sure all of the pro's and con's have been previously discussed, so it's really up to you to investigate what suits best.

 

Good luck with your choice.

 

Mike

[deletedaccount]

I'm a livaboard and I prefer my cruiser stern to my friends trad or semis for a number of reasons.

 

• First, I move a lot, so having the extra space out back is good for that. I find trad sterns to be too cramped to cruise comfortably. Semis are the same.
  
• Second, I've got decent seating out back in a sort of semi-semi trad style, meaning there's a safe place for my 4 year old to sit while cruising and going through locks. Semi trad seating is usually uncomfortable and cramped in my experience. Not so on my boat!
  
• Third, the space you gain from having a modern trad is cramped and half height. It's not actually that much use! With a normal trad it's full of engine (although I can see the appeal of that, and the space does have its uses)
  
• Forth, I can actually get at the engine, which is a right pain in a modern trad
  
• Fifth, I can pile up all the crap like paint cans etc out the back so it doesn't get in the way at the front.
  
• Sixth, I can get in and out of the back easier than on a trad, which is handy.
  
• Seventh, I can move the boat with the hatch shut, so no getting a ton of pissing rain inside the boat while moving.
  

 

My stern is a bit unusual though. I've not seen that many like it. Best of all worlds imo.

 

Edited November 23, 2009 by deletedaccount

[Keeping Up]

Something I have noticed, particularly on cruiser sterns (which might just be where it's more visible) is that the tiller may be at a comfortable height, but the steerer has to lean forward and/or bend down to reach the morse control. Sometimes this makes manoeuvring look very uncomfortable.

The controls on ours are (as in most cruiser sterns) mounted on a pillar. On top of this pillar there is a small shelf, just big enough to take two beer glasses. So the pillar just had to be the correct height to ensure that the glass comes naturally to hand when you reach for it. That was how the position of the control levers was defined.

[deletedaccount]

Socialising aside, from the Steerer's point of view the trad (and semi-trad) sterns tend to have under-the-armpit height tillers whereas cruiser sterns tend to have hip-height tiller arms. As I mentioned earlier its worth trying both styles to see how you get on with them. For me it's not an issue but I gather some people prefer one or the other. I guess, too, that the lower tiller of the cruiser sterm is probably more family friendly (for shorter Steerers) !

 

(..... I've got a lovely spacious engine room )

 

This is a pretty good point tbh. I much prefer the tiller on my cruiser, less arm ache. It could be that I was doing it wrong when steering the trad though.

[Guest]

I'm a livaboard and I prefer my cruiser stern to my friends trad or semis for a number of reasons.

 

My stern is a bit unusual though. I've not seen that many like it. Best of all worlds imo.

 

I like that stern - very like the Stenson one I referred to earlier - it isn't immediately obvious though where your morse control is from the picture.

[deletedaccount]

I like that stern - very like the Stenson one I referred to earlier - it isn't immediately obvious though where your morse control is from the picture.

 

If you mean the throttle lever then it's on the thickish pillar part of the handrail. It's a good spot for it and means no separate column sticking up.

 

I wish I had a better photo to hand

[Hairy-Neil]

it (Trad) looks impractical, standing in the cockpit(?) on a wet day surely the back cabin will get soaked,

 

Wear a sowester and cape and drape it so the water runs outside the cabin slides. The double whammy is it also funnels heat from the range up where its welcome..

 

Edited to say,....... obviously with the back cabin doors closed behind you.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Hairy-Neil

[Chertsey]

Wear a sowester and cape and drape it so the water runs outside the cabin slides. The double whammy is it also funnels heat from the range up where its welcome..

 

Edited to say,....... obviously with the back cabin doors closed behind you.

Does that really work? I've got the sou'wester... Where do I get the cape?

[Keeping Up]

Does that really work? I've got the sou'wester... Where do I get the cape?

Yes it really does. A cycling cape is best - if you can still buy them.

[GSer]

Wear a sowester and cape and drape it so the water runs outside the cabin slides. The double whammy is it also funnels heat from the range up where its welcome..

 

Edited to say,....... obviously with the back cabin doors closed behind you.

 

 

Thanks for your help, i gues that makes you the ;'cape cruise aider'

 

 

 

 

I know, coat hat door