Fitting out a new boat

[westjes]

Hello all

 

This may sound like a very stupid question but we're new to all this and any tips would be welcome.

 

Background: We're planning to commission a new 55' NB shell, probably to be built in Liverpool and we currently live in Newcastle on Tyne. My partner, Ian, is going to do all the fitting out and we think it best to have the boat transported over here to work on it. (Haven't yet looked into the cost of transportation but figure on balance it's got to be best to have the boat close to where you live, while working on it for god know's how long!?)

 

Question is, what sort of place is best to put the boat while working on it? (We thought about the back lane but didn't think the neighbours would be very chuffed.) What sort of places could we consider, ie to look up in Yellow Pages? Is it best to have premises that are covered, or can it all take place outdoors?

 

(The more I say, the more I wonder if this is feasible, or plain madness ... )

 

Oh well, any ideas? Thanks in advance.

 

Pat

[david and julie]

I suspect most people fit their boats out at marina's or on canalside moorings, although it can be done on land, if you have the room. Personally I think the most important thing is to have electric available, preferably without having to listen to a genny. Fitting out inside a building may be a bit costly, if you buy a sailaway shell it will have windows/doors so will be dry inside anyway.

 

The problem with having a shell built so far from home is the difficulty in keeping your eye on the build. Plus you also have a considerable extra transport costs, which are not cheap!!!

 

You don't say if you have a mooring yet, it may be best to sort that first as it is important. There will be builders in the North East and if you get a mooring first you may be able to drive your boat home. This will let you both oversee the build and save money on transport costs.

 

It takes a very long time as there is a lot of work involved in a fit out.

[Liam]

The only problem I can see with fitting the boat out on hard standing is that you better like going up and down ladders all day as you can't step on and off like you could if it was in the water.

 

Something to think of I suppose..

[gaggle]

if i was fitting my boat out i think i would have it on the water so when it was becoming a bit to stressful or hard going i could float of along the cut and have a break.

if you started the fit out tomorrow you would probably still be at it when spring sunshine came in again ,if it is on land your stuck there at least if it is afloat you have the choice to sail off and you can still get some jobs done.as for electric supply the power tools available with batteries mean you dont even have to put up with a generator,even the genny,s now can be pretty low on noise.

[DHutch]

You can fit out about almot anywhere you like, and it will have been done before.

 

Common places are as said above, marinas and on the canalside, for obvous reasons.

- Ether there are where the shell was built,

- Or on canal side, so the boat can be driven there,

- There maybe well be others doing simular work near by, and quite possably mains power too.

 

If you do the fit out else where, you obvously need to move it there, and the transport costs are not insignificant, even if you share cranage, and or just a boatyard that has there own crane.

 

The first half of emilyannes fittout (from a bare shell) happened in an old mill building (Atlas Mills) prior to it beeing demolished to make way for a morrisons.

- The boat was then put onto a lowloader and carryed to the canal, near worsley.

- At this time the boat was little more than a deluxe sailaway, she had little more than her half her engine, her floors/bulkheads, and the kitchen sink. And her 'maiden voyage' was done with several people pulling her from the towpath!

- My grandad then worked on the fitt out onwater, untill she was able to steam under he own power, at which point he got fedup and set off on his first cruise, basicaly just 'camping out' in the half bare shell.

- And the rest of the fitting out happened in fits and bursts at varous places around the canal system!

 

Not the most conventional why of doing it, but then again, its not a very conventional boat!! (or owner)

 

 

Daniel

[westjes]

I suspect most people fit their boats out at marina's or on canalside moorings, although it can be done on land, if you have the room. Personally I think the most important thing is to have electric available, preferably without having to listen to a genny. Fitting out inside a building may be a bit costly, if you buy a sailaway shell it will have windows/doors so will be dry inside anyway.

 

The problem with having a shell built so far from home is the difficulty in keeping your eye on the build. Plus you also have a considerable extra transport costs, which are not cheap!!!

 

You don't say if you have a mooring yet, it may be best to sort that first as it is important. There will be builders in the North East and if you get a mooring first you may be able to drive your boat home. This will let you both oversee the build and save money on transport costs.

 

It takes a very long time as there is a lot of work involved in a fit out.

29773[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the tips. I really need to look into the costings, don't I, for keeping the boat in different places, but also for travel costs and time factors if the boat's at a distance, cos that will add to the time it takes to fit it out - I feel a spreadsheet coming on. Haha, the mooring is also likely to be half way across the country - this is going to be one well-travelled boat even before it hits the water.

Oh, boat builders in the North East? - you would think so, wouldn't you, I'm certainly keeping an open mind but can't think there'll be (m)any narrow boat specialists.

Cheers

Pat

[westjes]

The only problem I can see with fitting the boat out on hard standing is that you better like going up and down ladders all day as you can't step on and off like you could if it was in the water.

 

Something to think of I suppose..

29789[/snapback]

 

Hi Liam

Good point, I'd not thought of it like that, kind of thought it would be easier working on the boat if it was stable, not rocking around, but maybe it doesn't ... hmm, lots of factors to bear in mind.

Cheers

Pat

[Liam]

Just little things which make a big difference.

 

I remember Dan saying, and quite rightly so that he's forgotten the amount of times he's heard "We now have a new boat, what do we do now?" kinda thing.

 

Fitting out a boat is a lot of hard work, I know, I'm in the process of doing it at the moment. Just make sure you've got it all planned out to a T, then check it and check it again over and over to save any heart ache in the future.

 

I'm sure you'll get yourself sorted.

[ChrisPy]

I cannot imagine how I could fit out if the boat was floating.

 

Never mind the ladder. Put the boat 2" off the ground and use the boarding step at the back. Even an old fart like me can manage and it keeps my legs supple. I soon got used to it. No, the thought of struggling with heavy items onto a floating boat, possibly some distance from vehicle access is out of the question. How do you put a Morso stove on board a floating boat? ....... with difficulty. And the ability to be able to walk round the boat to attend to external details is useful.

 

I am lucky. Bristol Marina is 10 minutes drive from home. There are about 30 boats in various stages of fit-out and repair, and full yard facilities. Narrowboats are in and out nearly every day having bottom scrapes and repaints. Electricity on tap. And if I am very lucky I will find a mooring in the marina at some stage after the heavy work is done and the boat is 'floatable'. OK, so I have to pay £3500 a year for the privilege. But going to work on the boat is not much more difficult than going out to the garage to do some hobby work.

 

I also have the advantage that, being a wide beam, I have space to store everything on board. I don't know how I'd manage if the floor was only 6ft wide.

[charles123]

Hi,

My suggestions are as follows

 

As you live in Newcastle canalside is not an option. I would look around a nearby industrial estate to see if there are any secure yards where they can rent you the space on their hardstanding. Ideally you need 240v access too.

Other than that I think its worth getting your boat part fitted as far as you can as the specialist tasks such as electrics and plumbing are not easy and probably will be done better by the builder. Dont underestimate the amount of work, its not as easy is it might seem. Consider getting the outside painted by the builder as painting in the open given the number of coats required will not be easy to get a good finish

Finally this point raised about getting onto the boat, its no trouble if you build a set of steps in the way the builders do or as in my case use stacks of wooden pallets to form steps which work very wekk

 

good luck

[reddi8]

we recently had our 10 ton boat moved from our home to the canal 4 miles away at a cost of £1300. Building it at home was great as we had all the tools & fittings about & kidnapped any of the joiners & electricians when they visited to give us parts & their time. My partner thought it was a great hideaway when he wanted peace. During the last 2 years he has spent many a spare hour working on the boat, if it had been away from the house he couldn`t have done this.

[stuart]

I cannot imagine how I could fit out if the boat was floating. 

 

Never mind the ladder.  Put the boat 2" off the ground and use the boarding step at the back.  Even an old fart like me can manage and it keeps my legs supple.  I soon got used to it.  No, the thought of struggling with heavy items onto a floating boat, possibly some distance from vehicle access is out of the question.  How do you put a Morso stove on board a floating boat?  .......  with difficulty.  And the ability to be able to walk round the boat to attend to external details is useful.

 

I also have the advantage that, being a wide beam, I have space to store everything on board.  I don't know how I'd manage if the floor was only 6ft wide.

29807[/snapback]

 

It is quite possible to fit out on water - I did it! I do agree that getting things to/from the towpath is difficult but not really much of a problem - its definately easier to put heavy things in if you can get level with the ground so you dont have the problem of lifting the stuff up!

 

After a while you do start to trip up over yourself so you really have to be neat+tidy and you will soon get sick of saw dust sticking to you like s**t to a blanket!!

[ChrisPy]

you will soon get sick of saw dust

29812[/snapback]

when the yard welder went inside to look at the work on the bow thruster 'cofferdam' he commented that I must be keeping hamsters in the boat. All vacuumed up before I went back to Turkey so there's no excuse for a welding fire.

[Richard Bustens]

Hi i am fitting out on the water, the main problems i have is that the spirit level is NBG and things that you measure and measure again just dont look level as the boat will move about, as yet i have had no problems with the painting i have the first coat on most of it now, i could not get on with brushing it so i am spraying it now. and the man next to me went up the wall coz of the smell. i add, i did not do it on my mooring i moved to the other side.

 

One point leave the final fitting of all doors till you are on the water. and settled down

[Liam]

I too am fitting out my boat which is floating.

 

It's not been a problem so far, but it runs and I am able to move the boat to the other side of the cut to where the car is parked, to load heavy stuff. I have electric and other handy stuff, such as water, elsan, pump out, toilets, work area and small crane. Not the usual kind of stuff you get on a linear mooring!

Edited September 6, 2005 by Liam

[Noah]

Hi Pat

 

I'm doing a partial internal refit and total repaint at a boatyard 50 miles from my house. Some nights I stay on the boat but often, due to other commitments, I commute there daily. This commuting has become a real pain (and expense) and I'm wishing that the boat was closer to home and preferably under cover so that I can prep and paint out of the rain, wind and sun.

 

Now that I'm nearing completion, a local farmer friend has offered me low-cost rent of a barn. Too late for me but it would have saved a fortune in fuel costs as well as travel time and wasted days waiting for painting weather.

 

If you do plan to fitout on a mooring, be sure that your (sometimes noisy) working is acceptable to others. Even though I'm on a working boatyard rather than a posh marina, a small minority of neighbours expect that all power tools should be totally silent and dust-free!

 

Noah

[Yamanx]

Problem, the cost of moving a (For instance) 17mx2mx2m 10 tonne peice of kit by road is an enormous cost. And it's similar whether its five miles or five hundred!

 

My new boat project will be carried out at about 50% on land and the rest whilst floating. The previous fitout I have carried out whilst floating. And I would say this wasnt a real problem. You can (I would assume) always be able to move the boat a few hundred yards or so for picking up materials and off loading stuff no longer required.

 

Working on the boat can be a bit claustraphobic on occasion when the weather is bad, but I got on just fine refitting my current 36' boat during January and February. Re-fitting seemed to be more difficult than a new fit, probably, as I had to take out as much if not more than I fitted! And re-wiring?

 

I know fitting out and re-fitting is a major operation and takes a fair amount of ones time. But I would say that there seems to be a rule on here that suggests it takes months and months if not years.

 

My own, if not limited experience, would suggest you can get a blimmin lot done in nine or ten hours, with all the right knowledge, bits, peices and tools if you have a mind too. And fitting out should not take even half as long as it is suggested on various forums and write ups.

 

There are as many people "doing up" boats as there are using them, more probably. I would rather put in some big effort and get it done than spend weeks and weeks just poncing about and never getting it finished. How many, even expensive boats (Nay, very expensive boats), have you seen where its obvious "it seemd a good idea at the time" springs to mind?

 

Wherever you carryout the work, just have a good project plan, the parts, the tools and the will. Get up to the boat, on your free time, when its daylight, before if you can do something valuable and stay until you have acheived your set target. It will not take months and months and years.

 

And the result is really worth the effort. Ten fold.

[westjes]

Whee! loads of good info, advice etc - much food for thought. Thanks to all you good people, it's greatly appreciated.

 

Give me a couple of days to go through all the replies and I'll try to come up with (my best attempt at) a summary of the info, pros and cons of various options, for future reference.

 

Cheers

Pat

[Liam]

Good luck!

[ChrisPy]

I know fitting out and re-fitting is a major operation and takes a fair amount of ones time. But I would say that there seems to be a rule on here that suggests it takes months and months if not years.

 

My own, if not limited experience, would suggest you can get a blimmin lot done in nine or ten hours, with all the right knowledge, bits, peices and tools if you have a mind too. And fitting out should not take even half as long as it is suggested on various forums and write ups.

 

29923[/snapback]

my manhour count is about 80 to date, to which you can add 30 hours shopping time including driving since the boat was delivered. And I reckon I'm about 30% done.

[Richard Bustens]

Chris

I dont know how you and some of the others do it.

 

I have spent over 200 hrs and still am in the first room, bathroom, and i still think there will be at least 15hr more yet , admitidly i have all the piping in and all the electric cabels as well first coat of paint on most of the outside. bath side panel took 15 hrs to make.

[westjes]

This is a summary of what people have said, mainly for me, but hopefully it might be useful to someone else with the same question - on where to do your fitting out.

 

Loads of different places to do it - on water and land - and personal preferences and circumstances come into it, and obviously costs.

 

Options: marinas, canalside moorings, where the shell was built, at home if you have space, miscellaneous disused buildings (eg old mill building, farm building), industrial estates with secure hard standing, etc etc

 

Some people reckon it would be difficult fitting out on water (eg getting stuff level) and others reckon it's not a problem. One big advantage of having it on the water, if you get fed up with the fitting out work, you can always take a break and go off cruising.

 

If you have it on land, could be tricky getting materials up and over, best build some steps. Useful to be able to get to the boat from all sides.

 

Under cover: easier for eg painting, but could have this done by the builder.

 

If you have it canalside, level with ground, easier to get things on. Disadvantage to canalside, could be some distance away from vehicle access, so may have to lug materials to boat

 

Noise and dust factors come into it - if you're near to other people

 

Very useful to have 240v electricity, or if not, a quiet-ish genny, or power tools with batteries

 

Probably best to have the fit-out location near to the boat-builder - in case it turned out there were problems with the shell

 

Costs

1) transportation could be hugely expensive - eg £1300 for 4 miles - and we'd have it twice over, from builder to premises and then premises to canal

2) cost of renting premises

 

 

Anyway, I've come to the conclusion that, unless we could get transportation for about £2K both ways - pretty unlikely - and cheap fit-out premises very near to our home, that our budget just won't stretch. I think we need to find a boat builder pretty close to cheap premises (maybe the same place) and close to relatives (Newark area). Ian could then go away to work on the boat during the week and just crack on. (This is a bit sad for me as I won't see much of the progress and won't be able to get involved - tough.) Another advantage would be, given that it's his first attempt at such a project, there'll be other people around who he can turn to for advice if he gets stuck.

[DHutch]

Under cover: easier for eg painting, but could have this done by the builder.

I forgot to say, our boat was fully painted in the mill (initially)

- Before the windows where put in (i feel this is important)

 

Since then (15years ago) the whole cabin has only been repainted once (8years ago), and there has been no rusting around the windows what so ever.

 

 

 

Daniel

[charles123]

On the topic of crane and transport costs. If you go to a large name crane company they will charge you a high sum for insurance and 3 or 4 riggers and safety men. (Over £1000 per lift) so dont do that. My cranage is about £250 per lift from a specialist boat lifting firm based in Manchester. Also the cost of putting it into the water at canal side is about the same. You standard boat insurnace covers you for the lifts, I checked. If you use a speciaist boat transporter the cost is proportionate to the distance. My cost for example as follows:

 

Transport total 2 trips £300 about 50 miles round trip for each trip and £1000 for cranage ie 4 lifts . Total £1300

 

Hope this helps

[david and julie]

westjes,

 

The £1300 for 4 miles is probably because the boat was at reddi8's house and the craneage was probably the bulk of the cost. Plus the truck may not have had time to do another job that day. Having said that he has saved on mooring/licence/petrol/time etc. I should think we would all choose the at home option if we could.

 

When you get your boat from the builder he may pay for loading, eitherway he would use a regular crane and transport company and would pay much less than a one off. As an example I launched mine (53ft) about 3 months ago, the builder loaded it, I paid the wagon and the crane at the boatyard end only, the total cost to me was about £330, it was about an hour from the boatbuilder to marina.

 

I doubt it would cost anything like £2000 from Liverpool to the NE. It is the crane thats the dear part, especially for insurance etc, when at home, this is not as bad at a regular boatyard.

Another advantage would be, given that it's his first attempt at such a project, there'll be other people around who he can turn to for advice if he gets stuck.

Yes and no, you can usually get advice from other boaters, on the other hand they are also a chatty bunch, 2 mins advice can cost 2 hours, especially if your a talking head (like me and most boaters I have met!)

 

Don't be put off by the costs, most of us find them a bit daunting, but because it takes so long you can pay for some things as you go along.