Attacked on the River Avon

[Maffi]

The only time I think you can hurt someone is in defence of your life and how often is that really the case?

 

Not according to Sir Ian Blair. He seems to think think that you can if necessary shoot someone if they are on your property committing a crime, however if they are making for the door to leave you should only restrain them until the police arrive.

 

If you turn the other cheek as the 'good' book tells us chances are you will get a second smack in the face.

Edited September 4, 2005 by Maffi

[Webchem]

Not sure whether some of the comments in here are tongue in cheek or real.

 

Whichever they are there are some scary people about. Please let me know which canals you are on and I will steer clear. Come to think of it, I think I'll stick to the BCN at least you know what to expect there.

 

[Richard Bustens]

If i remember correctly Webchem you are a teacher, ?

If so you are partly to blame for the behaviour of the children, and lack of discipline they have today. you have them under your control for the first 16 years of there lives so you in essence mold there minds to what they will become.

[gaggle]

If i remember correctly Webchem you are a teacher, ?

If so you are partly to blame for the behaviour of the children, and lack of discipline they have today. you have them under your control for the first 16 years of there lives so you in essence mold there minds to what they will become.

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i was taught by nuns in a catholic infant school 5yrs old till 9 yrs and they were the most violent yrs of my life ,we were beaten daily for the simplest of sins .if you missed church on a sunday you certainly prayed for your life.

if you were unable to tell them what colour vestments the priest wore for mass monday to friday would see you cowering trying to avoid the one inch thick bamboo can,some of them nuns threw a hell of a punch and you knew it when you were only a kid.the odd sly punch in the stomach off ordinary teachers in later years was a doddle compared to sister ignatious.

but they were the best years of your life,damned to hell and damnation every day.you are going to burn in hell and rot in purgitory,your not going to heaven.

YES TEACHER WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO SAY FOR YOURSELF

ps spent today at a marina looking at mooring and the people i seen -

yes there are some scary people on the cut they all have moorings in marina,s

Edited September 4, 2005 by gaggle

[Maffi]

If i remember correctly Webchem you are a teacher, ?

If so you are partly to blame for the behaviour of the children, and lack of discipline they have today. you have them under your control for the first 16 years of there lives so you in essence mold there minds to what they will become.

 

When I was at school 5 to 16 was only 11. How things have changed.

 

The making of a child is the first seven years. Everything a child is to become will be set in those years. A lot of it is in the genes. Any genetic trait (good or bad) is set within a few hours of conception.

 

How you can say Webchem is to blame unless he does house calls before conception?

 

Holy Joe Bustens fails AGAIN!

[fender.]

If i remember correctly Webchem you are a teacher, ?

If so you are partly to blame for the behaviour of the children, and lack of discipline they have today. you have them under your control for the first 16 years of there lives so you in essence mold there minds to what they will become.

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What a lot of rubbish! A lot of teachers find themselves in an unenviable and thankless situation - because they are expected to perform miracles. Genes, environment, location, quality of life, income, family status, beliefs, who you mix and socialise with etc all contribute to who you will be and not only that the set-up constantly changes through ones life. Go bust yer gut!

[gaggle]

a one a two a three and your out easy easy easy easy easy- best done in northern accent-with gravy-easy easy easy

[Carrie]

When kids get to our school, they are 11 years old. Some are 'socialised' and a pleasure to teach; some are unable to hold a single conversation without hitting someone/thing. We all work like mad to make up what their parent/s forgot to teach them - empathising with others, using their wits rather than their fists, liking themselves. I don't want to sound a complete wuss here, but the lack of love some have experienced is breath-taking. Discipline has a clear role in helping a kid learn what the 'boundaries' are, but stick without carrot (kindness, affection, fairness) produces brutes. Sorry to preach to the, I'm sure, excellent parents on this site, but some of the comments here do make me wonder!

[gaggle]

parents or teachers are not allowed to discipline children anymore,smacking is not allowed.

i have 5 boys 2 girls all except one boy seem to be getting along with life.

the one boy to my mind had his life turned upside down when he went to junior school and began straight away to complain about the teachers.he seen a school or educational physcoligist and they said he had this problem and that problem and needed specialist teaching.dyslexia i think was part of it but the ordinary teachers had decided he was a trouble causer who was deliberately looking for there attention.he became a marked man so to speak and it got so bad he refused to attend .the council had already promised placement in another place but they never had the money to pay for this so he and all the other children with simalar problems were left with no schooling whatsoever,he ended up missing the final three yrs while the council had no money.

i blame the teachers who failed to spot his problem in the first place and then the education authourities ie the council(liberal majority).the whole system fell to bits when it was most needed in his case.

but as i have said all the others magic.

it is the system teachers are asked to work under that is the biggest problem.

even when they and the children excel a concerted attack is mounted in all sections of the press stating that exams are to easy and dumbed down to raise pass rates.

we cant blame teachers because someone got attacked on the cut which is what the thread was about,we can if we want the easy option.

 

another ramble gaggle

Edited September 4, 2005 by gaggle

[Richard Bustens]

No Gaggle , it goes deeper than that, but the teachers have some of the responsibility, along with the parents and other factors such as it's peers.

 

From age 4 ish your child spends more time with the teacher than you, about 7 hrs a day, this is the time in there life that a child is most impressionable, and what he, she is taught then will be there for ever.

 

So all you teachers out there don't give me all the bull it is not your fault, you have a part in every child's upbringing.

 

When i was at school in the 50s 60s we respected our teachers, and addressed them as sir, miss, or Mr so and so, the teachers then did the normal teaching and we had other after school activities wood work, art ,sports, music both in break times and after school, i don't think that as much if any of this goes on anymore.

 

I don't know if these activities were paid for to the teacher but they were always there, inter school sports on Saturdays, some of these are possibly still there for the child, but it all adds up to the fact that from 4 to 16 the teachers spend more time with the child than it's parents, and must accept some of the responsibility.

[Guest st170dw]

No Gaggle , it goes deeper than that, but the teachers have some of the responsibility, along with the parents and other factors such as it's peers.

 

From age 4 ish your child spends more time with the teacher than you, about 7 hrs a day, this is the time in there life  that a child is most impressionable, and what he, she is taught then will be there for ever.

 

So all you teachers out there don't give me all the bull it is not your fault, you have a part in every child's upbringing.

 

When i was at school in the 50s 60s we respected our teachers, and addressed them as sir, miss, or Mr so and so, the teachers then did the normal teaching and we had other after school activities wood work, art ,sports, music both in break times and after school, i don't think that as much if any of this goes on anymore.

 

I don't know if these activities were paid for to the teacher but they were always there, inter school sports on Saturdays, some of these are possibly still there for the child, but it all adds up to the fact that from 4 to 16 the teachers spend more time with the child than it's parents, and must accept some of the responsibility.

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We ALL have a responsi8bility to educate the young in whatever way we can.

 

Even if it is only taking the time to wave to a pre-school child who waves at us as we go by it is an important part of education that can stay with that child forever.

 

Positive memories can only be good for the future of our decendants and of course the canals.

 

Dave

[Breals]

Richard to my mind its the parents who have the prime responsibility for making sure their kids know what's wrong and right, and how to behave. You can't pass the blame on to the teachers, that strikes me as yet another example of people abdicating all responsibility for their lives onto the government.

 

Then again it must be hard when both parents have to work to make ends meet. But you see so many parents in the street who clearly have no control over their kids, and relent to their every request, and just bribe them with sweets to appease their tantrums, or lose it and smack them in the most shocking way when they play up.

 

The teachers have a role to play of course but it can't be easy when they have to deal with a class of 30-plus 5 year olds who have no idea of discipline instilled in them because 'that's the school's job'.

[Webchem]

Sadly times have changed, and yes I am a teacher Richard, and a bloody good one at that. How many teachers these days would take 20 16/17 year old out on the cut for a week.

 

I would like to invite all those who dis teachers to spend a week shadowing me at work just to see the exact conditions we work under, the incredible rudeness, not to mention defiance that is inherent in the psyche of the teenager that I have the pleasure of attempting to educate (actually most of them are fantastic).

 

I am very sorry (actually I am not sorry at all Richard, you appear to have sadly misguided views), you are 110% incorrect, teachers cannot be blamed for the lack of discipline in today's children. There is no doubt that this starts at home from the instant of birth. A lack of love and purpose in life are the prime causes of the problems we have - or is it just that the problems have always been there, and because of the 24 hour nature of news, there is a need to journalists to seek out news. Just reading through literature of the 19th century (which is a reflection of life), is enough to see that the problems have been around with young people for as long as humans have been in existence (or at least able to write).

 

It is also a known fact (and I know this because some very boring man came and told us this as part of inservice training on thursday), that by the time they are 5 children from a middle class family will have heard about 30 million words spoken. A working class child (and I make no apology for the use of that term) will have heard about half that, and a child with parents on benefits will have heard less that a million words, never mind that their vocabulary will be have less than 300 words in it - which is incidentally the size of the vocabulary of the Sun newspaper.

 

Lack of respect for people and property starts in the home. Schools have to deal with this every day, most children have direct contact with teachers for about 6 hours of the day (breaktimes and lunchtimes don't count, as they tend to be within their peer groups and supervised from a distance), that means that if my maths is correct there are 18 more hours to fill here, maybe 8 of them asleep, so thats 10 hours in the company of other adults (hopefully their parents).

 

When I first started teaching (only 10 years ago), the boys were a real problem. These days we seem to have sorted the majority of boys behaviour, its the 14/15 year old girls who present the really challenging behaviour (and out of a year group of 180, I am talking about 5 or 6), sadly they tend to be low ability, from abusive homes, and their language tends to be liberally sprinkled with f**k and the terrible c word which I won't even star out. Out of the group who are about to move into Year 11 (thats today now I guess), 2 are pregnant, 2 are in and out of care and the other two are regular witnesses to fathers abusing wives, not to mention abusing them.

 

Sorry I have ranted enough. My biggest issue with teaching is that we have all been taught (or at least I hope we all attended school), so therefore we are all experts, and we also compare our schooling to what we remember our own education to be (and it has changed a great deal in the last 20 years - not necessarily for the better). Well you are in for a shock, attending school does not make you an expert, quite the opposite in fact, it gives you a romanticised view of how school should be.

 

So to the general public and the media, quit blaming teachers for societies ills. Yes I can do sex ed, emotional counselling, attempt to provide a safe environment for damaged souls who need love and god forbid I might actually teach someone something.

 

To the politicians who think they are the experts - bugger off, leave us to teach, most of us are quite professional, and are more than capable of sorting out what is right and wrong for our students.

 

Right rant over, but I would just like to leave you with this, if you meet an apparently aggressive group of KIDS, they probably aren't really aggressive, but will pick up on your feelings. If you are aggressive, funnily enough, expect aggression back. There are of course the handful for whom this doesn't apply.

 

Cheers

Jools

[fender.]

No Gaggle , it goes deeper than that, but the teachers have some of the responsibility, along with the parents and other factors such as it's peers.

 

So all you teachers out there don't give me all the bull it is not your fault, you have a part in every child's upbringing.

 

When i was at school in the 50s 60s we respected our teachers, and addressed them as sir, miss, or Mr so and so, the teachers then did the normal teaching and we had other after school activities wood work, art ,sports, music both in break times and after school, i don't think that as much if any of this goes on anymore.

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My Dear Mr Bustens, this is now September 2005. You cannot compare it to the 50's. Times change and parameters change but you are fixed on a particular plane of thought that wouldnt have enabled Galileo or Einstein to dream up the radical insights they had. You go on about laws and the rest of it (and paying for everything etc etc) but you are so old fashioned. Your notions are Euclidean and your brain works at 000.1mph. I'm sure your synapses are primed onto the Spanish Inquisition.

[Webchem]

My Dear Mr Bustens, this is now September 2005. You cannot compare it to the 50's. Times change and parameters change but you are fixed on a particular plane of thought that wouldnt have enabled Galileo or Einstein to dream up the radical insights they had. You go on about laws and the rest of it (and paying for everything etc etc) but you are so old fashioned. Your notions are Euclidean and your brain works at 000.1mph. I'm sure your synapses are primed onto the Spanish Inquisition.

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Awesome - fantastically eloquent, I couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[Richard Bustens]

Passably right Fender..

 

Webchem. yes i can accept you are a exceptional teacher as i have followed your exploits with your charges, but is that the norm or the exception.?

 

i can accept everything you say but what hac changed so much? in 40 years.

 

I also know what you mean about the children picking up the actions from us as i has a cinema in the 90s and had no problems with the youth where as other people did, the doctor in town said to me one day he was scared to walk through the town at night for groups of 15-16 year olds these were the same ones that i knew from the cinema and in 7 years only ever had one spot of bother.

[gaggle]

Passably right Fender..

 

Webchem. yes i can accept you are a exceptional teacher as i have followed your exploits with your charges, but is that the norm or the exception.?

 

i can accept everything you say but what hac changed so much? in 40 years.

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i cant beleive your asking what has changed in forty yrs,its like your saying it was all right last week.

everything in the world

and it changes with such speed,my ma and da died in the seventies and if they came back today i dont believe the would accept they had come back to earth.

whats changed?one major change for you TELEVISION.its not andy pandy and watch with mother now

[enigma]

This year I have been shot at and hit, had stones thrown at me and hit, and have been boarded by teenage yobs.

 

Boating is my hobby, why do I have to tolerate such aggression whilst trying to enjoy this hobby?

 

It's a shame that some people pretend that such behaviour is of no consequence.

 

Last weekend when I was boarded I was teaching a group of three new people to their hobby. They were not impressed and I would not be surprised if they fail to join us.

 

I will always report such behaviour to the police and BW; it's the only way things might change.

[Richard Bustens]

Arr Enigma.

 

I blame the teachers, the teachers blame the parents, Gaggle blames the television,

 

It is probably a mix of all these, but as Fender says i am getting to be a old fart and living in the past.

 

All i know is the youth of today is not the same as the youth of my day, and for what ever reason it is not for the better.

 

Webchem now he blames the different class structure, but there has always been a class structure upper , middle, and lower. and in my grandfathers day more so than mine the poverty was greater than today. there was no social services to give you money for food and new shoes, if you were out of work you went without,

 

Now there is obviously a problem that needs addressing, it is just how to do this. and undo all the bad that is there, from whatever cause.

 

First i think is to really find out why it has happened.

[gaggle]

i dont blame telly,really i dont think much is wrong with the kids.

it must be the adults who are getting "attacked" that are to be to blame.

what is it about enigma that gets him attention,he has said he has had several incidents,why?

a certain kind of person will be a VICTIM their demeanor screams out I AM AN EASY TOUCH.

averting your gaze to avoid eye contact or something so simple in your body language sends out signals,the way you dress also can provoke conflict.

my kids got the wild giggles because some fella was locking his boat and they got on to the fact that he was in shorts,sandals and socks,now socks is alright but the guy had them PULLED UP.that simple little thing pulled up socks had made this guy a figure to be laughed at and i am sure if i was not present the kids would have told him how sad in their eyes he was. OIH MATE, YOUR HAVING A LAUGH ARN,T YOU,LOSE THE SOCKS something like that maybe and if he was a sad geezer he would not see the joke.men who wear trousers with the waste bands pulled up to the chest i see also cause great mirth,they tell me i am getting put in a home if i start doing it

i really believe a bit of mischief by the kids can be taken wrong or responded to in

a manner that only makes matters worse

[Paul]

Sure gaggle,

Lots of people get attacked.

Without doing anything.

 

There are just a lot of boored young people without anything better to do.

[gaggle]

its the school holidays in case nobody has noticed.

.

i am soon to find out for myself what goes on up and down the canals to boats and crews on them.i may have my mind changed for me.

i have not tried to hide the fact i have only just joined the boating part of the canal community even though i have been on the towpath for years on and off.

i will just wait and see but it seems to me people are far more prepared to post and say this bad thing happened, surely some good stuff happenes as well so why not post about them.

if you get attacked for doing nothing,then try doing something,interact and try to prevent it.

[enigma]

its the school holidays in case nobody has noticed.

.

i am soon to find out for myself what goes on up and down the canals to boats and crews on them.i may have my mind changed for me.

i have not tried to hide the fact i have only just joined the boating part of the canal community even though i have been on the towpath for years on and off.

i will just wait and see but it seems to me people are far more prepared to post and say this bad thing happened, surely some good stuff happenes as well so why not post about them.

if you get attacked for doing nothing,then try doing something,interact and try to prevent it.

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gaggle

 

Perhaps you would like to come with me someday? I would like to see your interaction with kids throwing stones. Perhaps you can catch airgun pellets?

Edited September 5, 2005 by enigma

[Sam]

You really don't have a clue do you Gaggle.

What would you suggest we do, huh?

Why hello old chap, lovely chunk of metal your about to drop on my head (yes this has happened to me.. they only just missed though) - > We have had some very scary & frequent attacks on the canals and trust me Gaggle - we interact with young people but not the ones who have just potentially nearly killed us.

I suggest you don't go around mouthing off about how us boaters should interact if you haven’t even come across these yobs or haven’t even been boating (you don’t really make it very clear what stage you are at as in canal voyages).

 

I'm sure the other members who have been under attack will agree with me on this, I’m not sure. But I don’t really appreciate people like you mouthing off about how we should go and be friendly and interact with these people when you have never experienced the danger & how bloody scary it is sometimes.

 

Oh and batherway this happens throughout the year. not just the school holidays.

 

Sorry for the rant folks.

Edited September 5, 2005 by Sam

[Maffi]

Sure gaggle,

Lots of people get attacked.

Without doing anything.

 

There are just a lot of boored young people without anything better to do.

 

There is far more for youngsters to do today than there ever was in the 50's and 60's. I don't really recall being bored. Did we not make our own entertainment.

 

Maybe what is missing is the clearly defined stereotypes of good people and bad people that we used to have in Westerns. Good people wear white hats and bad people black hats. Often today the goody is just the one who is not as bad as others.

 

That is something that has changed in the last 40+ years, no westerns. They were certainly part of my growing up and a lot of others that went to Saturday Morning Pictures. It didn't matter how hard you thought you were, everyone sang to the dancing dot. ABC minors lapel badges were worn by many, even the toughies. Somehow I can't see young un's today all joining in like they did then.

 

What ever the cause I will hold firm on what I have said before. Come to my house to steal from me or harm me and mine, don't expect me to talk.