Joshua or Standard Bow

[Steamerpoint]

Today, on the phone to a boat builder, he asked me if I wanted a Joshua bow or standard bow.

Obviously I know the difference to look at, but asked him what the difference was in terms of price. He replied that a Joshua bow would cost £1000 more!

 

He said that they were harder to build, hence the higher price and then told me that the design came from boats that carried perishables and were able to queue jump the other boats at the locks.

 

Sounds great, but this won't wash these days and I'll have to wait my turn at the locks with everyone else, lol.

 

Is there any advantage in terms of boat handling and performance with these bows and are they longer than standard bows? I.e. Will they leave less space for accommodation on a boat because the accommodation has to start further back?

 

Do Joshua bow boats sell better later, thus recovering the extra £1000?

 

Regards Chris.

[Chris J W]

Suspect it's more of a personal choice, but one thing you need to know ... it's a JOSHER bow, not Joshua.

 

Google some images, have a look around at other boats, and see what you think. If you like it and think it's worth the money ... go for it!

[Steamerpoint]

Suspect it's more of a personal choice, but one thing you need to know ... it's a JOSHER bow, not Joshua.

 

Google some images, have a look around at other boats, and see what you think. If you like it and think it's worth the money ... go for it!

Thanks Chris, that's very interesting indeed.

Have a look at this builders webpage and see how they are spelling Josher! http://www.gemmarineservices.co.uk/ (You need to click on the Narrowboat link!)

 

If it has nothing to do with performance. I'll have to consider this very carefully as £1000 extra is quite a lot more to save!

Edited May 20, 2009 by Steamerpoint

[Wiltshire Moonraker]

Suspect it's more of a personal choice, but one thing you need to know ... it's a JOSHER bow, not Joshua.

 

Google some images, have a look around at other boats, and see what you think. If you like it and think it's worth the money ... go for it!

 

Set me off googling & I found this interesting site Drew's Joshers Info

Some time around 1860 James Fellows died and his son, Joshua took over. The boatmans name for any boat built by or for FMC is a 'Josher'.

Well I didn't know that!

 

Chris

[Proper Job]

Thanks Chris, that's very interesting indeed.

Have a look at this builders webpage and see how they are spelling Josher! http://www.gemmarineservices.co.uk/ (You need to click on the Narrowboat link!)

 

If it has nothing to do with performance. I'll have to consider this very carefully as £1000 extra is quite a lot more to save!

There's hardly a discernible difference between the photo's!

 

As their 'Joshua' bow look nothing like a 'Josher' bow, at least they can't be had under the trades description act

 

There's a lot of info on the forum on this subject. Try using the search facility.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Proper Job

[PaddingtonBear]

I am certainly NOT an expert but I would delve into it much more before you make a choice, as suggested look at Drew's site and then read up on it. Almost all boat builders would not know a joshers from a pile of carrots - it has just become a term that is supposed to indicate higher quality(?) This is a highly contentious issue, almost as contentious as inverters, earth bonding and battery boiling. There are very few if any 'joshers' made nowadays and those that are are made by very few builders - Brinklow Boats being possibly pre-eminent BUT a josher would cost considerably more than £1000 extra more like double your 'normal' (whatever that is) boat (it is not just the bows but the whole hull shape). As Down from the North said on another thread ".........work always looks better proper riveted but the money" and he should know

[starman]

Not very encouraging that they can't even spell the name right, is it! Take a look here link for some better examples.

[Phil Speight]

Suspect it's more of a personal choice, but one thing you need to know ... it's a JOSHER bow, not Joshua.

 

Google some images, have a look around at other boats, and see what you think. If you like it and think it's worth the money ... go for it!

I`m ashamed of knowing this but there is at least one boatbuilder who does produce what he calls a "Joshua bow". It is nothing remotely like a Josher bow - so I guess he can call it whatever he wants - "Weirdly Pinched Bow " comes to mind.

[Chertsey]

It doesn't matter what they call it - go for one you like the look of. But do make sure you look at plenty first.

 

I stand to be corrected on this but my understanding is that on a modern boat, whatever the visible shape of the fore end (which is what if you are pedantic the front end of a narrow boat should be called), there will be very little difference under the water and thus little effect on performance or steering. The shaping of the swims towards the back of the boat will be far more important here.

 

To see lots of real joshers in all their glory, head for Braunston on the weekend of June 27th.

 

In the meantime, here are some to look at.

[Naughty Cal]

Interesting that they are all different to look at. So which is a real "Josher"

[Hairy-Neil]

Us rivet counting anoraks can tell a 'good' Washer Josher is really a replica from 100 yards on a foggy night. Anything less than a Kemp, Wain, Priest, Fuller etc. is just so burlesque they hardly catch the eye, though I must admit the worst travesties I see on my travels do trigger some entertaining moments.

 

I'd spend that £1000 on something that won't get you laughed at.

[PaddingtonBear]

What about Keith Ball ? and which Fuller? oh sorry shall we talk about galvanic isolators? so much easier

[Hairy-Neil]

What about Keith Ball ? and which Fuller? oh sorry shall we talk about galvanic isolators? so much easier

 

I did say etc.....

 

There's more than one Fuller?

[Chertsey]

Interesting that they are all different to look at. So which is a real "Josher"

Those are all real - although of different periods and possibly built by different yards and/or restored to different degrees(awaits FMC anorak for chapter and verse); put them next to a modern boat though (including the vast majority of so called 'josher style' ones) or a GU boat (for example) and you will see that what they have in common in terms of their fore end shape is far greater than the differences.

[Naughty Cal]

Those are all real - although of different periods and possibly built by different yards and/or restored to different degrees(awaits FMC anorak for chapter and verse); put them next to a modern boat though (including the vast majority of so called 'josher style' ones) or a GU boat (for example) and you will see that what they have in common in terms of their fore end shape is far greater than the differences.

 

So if they are all real "Joshers" and they all look different why is there so much mickey taking and snobbery about modern joshers which again look different?

[carlt]

So if they are all real "Joshers" and they all look different why is there so much mickey taking and snobbery about modern joshers which again look different?

I don't see the difference between your boat and a bayliner but you would spot the difference a mile off and your derogatory comments about them don't sound a whole lot different to the comments made about fake joshers.

[Naughty Cal]

I don't see the difference between your boat and a bayliner but you would spot the difference a mile off and your derogatory comments about them don't sound a whole lot different to the comments made about fake joshers.

 

Its a long standing joke between a few of us GRP owners, nothing derogatory in it at all.

[Albion]

I`m ashamed of knowing this but there is at least one boatbuilder who does produce what he calls a "Joshua bow". It is nothing remotely like a Josher bow - so I guess he can call it whatever he wants - "Weirdly Pinched Bow " comes to mind.

 

I agree entirely Phil. There are some 'Josher' bows that look just as though someone has got a modern style bow made of plasticene and squeezed it firmly creating the most appalling shape. It would be better if they didn't attempt to replace the normal style bow in my opinion. If you compare those with 'Josher style' bows done by Graham Edgson (Norton Canes), Roger Fuller (Five Towns), the guys in the Brinklow arm (whose names escape me for the moment) and some other top end builders you can see why it would be better for the others not to try, and to just produce an honest, modern bow.

Roger

[Chertsey]

So if they are all real "Joshers" and they all look different why is there so much mickey taking and snobbery about modern joshers which again look different?

There's no such thing as a modern josher.

[carlt]

Its a long standing joke between a few of us GRP owners, nothing derogatory in it at all.

Just like comments about "washer joshers" then.

[Naughty Cal]

Just like comments about "washer joshers" then.

 

No not really because we dont take it too seriously.

 

Where as the anoraks amonngst the NB owners take it to a whole new level of derogatory comments and slagging. Whilst we cruiser owners may have pet names for other manufacturers, such as binliners and bayliners, there is never any slagging about the shape or design or snobbery amongst the owners.

[Chertsey]

Interesting that they are all different to look at. So which is a real "Josher"

Could you actually point out a few differences in those fore ends then Phylis? I'm sure a serious FMC rivet counter could find a few, but my untrained eye can only see similarity of shape.

 

No not really because we dont take it too seriously.

 

Where as the anoraks amonngst the NB owners take it to a whole new level of derogatory comments and slagging. Whilst we cruiser owners may have pet names for other manufacturers, such as binliners and bayliners, there is never any slagging about the shape or design or snobbery amongst the owners.

Ah, it might look like it to an outsider, but it's just that our friendly wind ups are more robust. (Like our boats? eeeek)

Edited May 21, 2009 by WarriorWoman

[carlt]

No not really because we dont take it too seriously.

 

Where as the anoraks amonngst the NB owners take it to a whole new level of derogatory comments and slagging. Whilst we cruiser owners may have pet names for other manufacturers, such as binliners and bayliners, there is never any slagging about the shape or design or snobbery amongst the owners.

It's not snobbery.

 

If someone brought out a cheap plastic boat that looked nothing like a Sealine, but they advertised it as one, you would soon be shouting about it.

[Naughty Cal]

Could you actually point out a few differences in those fore ends then Phylis? I'm sure a serious FMC rivet counter could find a few, but my untrained eye can only see simarity of shape.

 

 

Ah, it might look like it to an outsider, but it's just that our friendly wind ups are more robust. (Like our boats? eeeek)

 

You say that but i would like to see your NB weather a coastal storm.

 

Just to point out that similarities also means that there are differences.

[Chertsey]

Just to point out that similarities also means that there are differences.

eh?