New battery type

[Justme]

Is this real?

 

 

Faster recharge & higher capacities.

 

Will it change how we charge & use batteries?

 

 

 

 

HERE and HERE

 

 

 

Justme

[Gibbo]

It's a distinct possibility. There hasn't been a proper breakthrough in battery technology for many years. Slight improvements here and there, new technologies that improve power to weight ratios etc by a few tens of percent. But no real big breakthrough.

 

This could possibly be one. I'm a bit dubious though that it is on those two rather odd websites and not on any with any substance or authority. Time will tell I guess.

 

Gibbo

[FadeToScarlet]

I thought Anodes were positive and Cathodes, negative? Unlike in the diagram above?

[chris w]

The article predicts energy densities of 3000WH/kg. That would be amazing....... a lead acid battery is only around 50WH/kg.

 

Chris

[Gibbo]

I thought Anodes were positive and Cathodes, negative? Unlike in the diagram above?

 

This often confuses people.

 

In a normal component in a circuit the anode releases electrons into the rest of the circuit (think diode etc). The cathode receives electrons from the rest of the circuit.

 

In a battery this is correct during charging (ie when the energy source is external to the device) but not during discharging.

 

It depends upon the type of device, what it is actually doing at the time and how it is looked at.

 

For instance, in a battery, during charge, the positive terminal is releasing electrons to the outside circuit. Which would make it the anode. But internally the positive terminal is receiving electrons through the electrolyte which makes it a cathode.

 

During charging the positive post of the battery follows the normal convention. But during discharging it is reversed. The reversal coming from the chemical energy in the battery.

 

It's all very confusing.

 

Gibbo

[RLWP]

It's a distinct possibility. There hasn't been a proper breakthrough in battery technology for many years. Slight improvements here and there, new technologies that improve power to weight ratios etc by a few tens of percent. But no real big breakthrough.

 

This could possibly be one. I'm a bit dubious though that it is on those two rather odd websites and not on any with any substance or authority. Time will tell I guess.

 

Gibbo

 

Batteries and battery charging technology has been a bit of a minority interest, but with the growing interest in electric vehicles I think we are going to see big changes over the next few years. Energy per unit Weight and charge rates are going to have to be radically improved to make electric vehicles more acceptable to people used to modern cars. Going from a car with lots of lovely features like air conditioning, heated rear windows, sat navs and sound systems, that can be recharged at a petrol station in a few minutes, to existing electric cars will be quite a challenge.

 

Richard

[Gibbo]

Batteries and battery charging technology has been a bit of a minority interest, but with the growing interest in electric vehicles I think we are going to see big changes over the next few years. Energy per unit Weight and charge rates are going to have to be radically improved to make electric vehicles more acceptable to people used to modern cars. Going from a car with lots of lovely features like air conditioning, heated rear windows, sat navs and sound systems, that can be recharged at a petrol station in a few minutes, to existing electric cars will be quite a challenge.

 

Richard

 

Agreed.

 

At present the energy density of batteries is ncredibly poor when compared to chemical sources of energy such as coal and diesel etc. But there is no theoretical reason why the energy density of a battery cannot match or even exceed that of fossil fuels. After all, when charging a battery, we are simply converting electrical energy into chemical energy. The trick is to get this done quicker. At present it is simply far too slow.

 

Of course, the other problem is that in order to charge an electric car in (say) 5 minutes we'd all have to have 10,000 amp supplies into our houses. If recharging is to be done at a service station then presumeably it will, like a petrol station, be designed to recharge (say) 10 at a time. Hmmmm, a few hundred thousand amp supply at each filling station is going to be quite an expensive infrastructure to set up.

 

I just wonder how long this is all going to take?

 

Gibbo

[RLWP]

Agreed.

 

At present the energy density of batteries is ncredibly poor when compared to chemical sources of energy such as coal and diesel etc. But there is no theoretical reason why the energy density of a battery cannot match or even exceed that of fossil fuels. After all, when charging a battery, we are simply converting electrical energy into chemical energy. The trick is to get this done quicker. At present it is simply far too slow.

 

Of course, the other problem is that in order to charge an electric car in (say) 5 minutes we'd all have to have 10,000 amp supplies into our houses. If recharging is to be done at a service station then presumeably it will, like a petrol station, be designed to recharge (say) 10 at a time. Hmmmm, a few hundred thousand amp supply at each filling station is going to be quite an expensive infrastructure to set up.

 

I just wonder how long this is all going to take?

 

Gibbo

 

Interesting times.

 

Perhaps there are other technological ways of managing this. Swapping battery packs for instance? Or something like the KERS system in F1.

 

Richard

 

Capacitors.

[bag 'o' bones]

It's a distinct possibility. There hasn't been a proper breakthrough in battery technology for many years. Slight improvements here and there, new technologies that improve power to weight ratios etc by a few tens of percent. But no real big breakthrough.

 

This could possibly be one. I'm a bit dubious though that it is on those two rather odd websites and not on any with any substance or authority. Time will tell I guess.

 

Gibbo

 

Most university website pages are bit odd to be honest. Also they they tend not to be written with any substance or authority for the very fact the author would not want someone nicking their ideas!

[barge sara]

I suspect one problem with smaller / lighter / higher capacity batteries will be controlling the temperature while charging.

The temperature of our tonne and a quarter of lead and acid rises by around 2 degrees C for each 10KWH of charging, and takes about 24 hours for the temperature to come back down to ambient.

If the mass was much less presumably the temperature rise would be proportionately greater.

 

So we end up with much smaller batteries but have to water cool them while charging?

 

John

MV Sara.

[Gibbo]

I suspect one problem with smaller / lighter / higher capacity batteries will be controlling the temperature while charging.

The temperature of our tonne and a quarter of lead and acid rises by around 2 degrees C for each 10KWH of charging, and takes about 24 hours for the temperature to come back down to ambient.

If the mass was much less presumably the temperature rise would be proportionately greater.

 

So we end up with much smaller batteries but have to water cool them while charging?

 

John

MV Sara.

 

Partly true. The overall mass is, counterintuitively, unrelated to how much the temperature rises when energy is thrown at is. You're looking at lead acid batteries. Lead has an extremely low specific heat capacity. Which basically means only a small amount of energy is required to heat it up. As opposed to water which requires a ridiculous amount of energy to heat it up.

 

Further, they're much less efficient than most other typers of batteries during charge which means more of the energy goes into actually warming them.

 

These problems are nowhere near as extreme with other battery technologies.

 

Gibbo

[PaulG]

I'm a bit dubious though that it is on those two rather odd websites and not on any with any substance or authority. Time will tell I guess.

 

Gibbo

 

The University of St Andrews ("the third oldest in the English speaking world, founded in 1413") has no substance or authority?

 

Not like you to be contentious, Gibbo....

[Gibbo]

The University of St Andrews ("the third oldest in the English speaking world, founded in 1413") has no substance or authority?

 

Not like you to be contentious, Gibbo....

 

 

I didn't mean that. Being on its own website is not independant so can't be taken seriously on such a big claim.

 

I would have thought if it was real it would be on something like ieee.org or something with some substance behind it.

 

I'm not syaing it isn't real, but if it is it seems an odd way to go about publishing it. I hope it is real, we need a good battery breakthrough.

 

Gibbo

[FadeToScarlet]

I was reading about a new type in New Scientist last night. The biggest problem at the moment, arguably, is the amount of time it takes to recharge the battery. This newest type, because of its internal design, is much faster to recharge, and apparently the technology isn't new, it's just changing manufacturing methods so it might be ready for adoption in a couple of years.

 

Apparently.