Liverpool Canal Link

[MartinClark]

The first thing boaters need to know about the new Canal Link is when it's going to be open for boaters to use. BW is gearing up for a big announcement on this next week, so I hope you can bear the suspense a little longer.

 

Lots of other information has now emerged, however, and I have put the details onto this page.

 

Some of the interesting points are:

• Booking is going to be essential - no turning up on spec. There are already 150 boats on the waiting list so anyone who is thinking of taking a boat to Liverpool in the first couple of months had better get onto the list fast!
  
• BW staff will now only work boats through the two swing bridges on very busy roads, so the booked section will begin at Bridge 9 (Wango Lane) and not Bridge 16 (Bells Lane) as before.
  
• Boats will have to stay overnight at Eldonian Village both on the way down into Liverpool and on the way back.
  
• BW staff will assist with the locks on the Stanley Dock Branch and operate the new locks at Princes Dock and Mann Island.
  
• The assisted passages will take place 7 days a week.
  
• There will be no mooring charge for using the new pontoons in Salthouse Dock, where boats can stay for up to 14 days.
  

 

Fuller details here.

[starman]

There are already 150 boats on the waiting list so anyone who is thinking of taking a boat to Liverpool in the first couple of months had better get onto the list fast!

 

We are thinking of a trip this summer so I'm trying to get an idea of what that 150-boat waiting list might mean in terms of already booked-up days. I know that there's a six boats a day limit but how will that tie in with the 14-day mooring at the new terminus and, if you're on a long trip it's easy to imagine missing your 'slot' through unforseen hold-ups - do you think there will be some flexibility/day-to-day list management going on? In short: how do you think it will all actually work!

[MartinClark]

if you're on a long trip it's easy to imagine missing your 'slot' through unforseen hold-ups

In some ways it will be very similar to the way the Ribble Link works - there are only 6 boats a day there as well, except, because of the tides, it is open on fewer days. You have to book a passage for the Ribble Link some way in advance and it is up to you to make sure you get there in time.

 

If there is some sort of general hold up, like a jammed bridge, then that will affect other boats too, and some sort of allowance might need to be made.

 

I know a lot of boaters like to drift around in a free and casual way rather than plan things in detail weeks ahead, but there are several places on the system now where advance booking is required. Someone coming from further away should allow plenty of time and be prepared to have a day or two in hand to allow for any unexpected delays.

 

150 boats only represents about 4 weeks but once the Link opens I think that more people will suddenly decide that they want to go. I am sure that a lot of people are totally unaware of any waiting list or the need to book, which is why I am drawing attention to it.

 

I don't know how BW will tie in the 6 boats a day with the moorings. If everyone who goes there stays for 14 days then it would be comparatively easy to plan and manage this. However, some people are only going to want to stay 2 or 3 nights, or maybe 7, so it all becomes more complicated and I can't see how they are going to make sure that the pontoons are more or less fully occupied unless they vary the number of boats coming through from day to day.

 

I think BW is going to see how this all works out this year and maybe make changes in the future in the light of this year's experiences. A lot will depend on what the level of demand is going to be once the initial novelty wears off.

Edited March 22, 2009 by MartinClark

[PeterScott]

[*]Boats will have to stay overnight at Eldonian Village both on the way down into Liverpool and on the way back.

Fuller details here.

 

Unfortunately missed the User Group last week for a bellringing commitment; but this sounds grimly restrictive. My best guess is this sort of programme:

 

I arrive at Hancock's Swing Bridge (br 9) at, say, noon on a WEDNESDAY: if the current arrangements are any guide, everyone has to start the guided section in the morning, so assume I can go through at 9am on THURSDAY, and then have to moor overnight after 3 hrs boating and 9 miles at Eldonian Basin. I'm then taken through Stanley Docks etc for another couple of hours' boating on FRIDAY and moor in Liverpool, and back again to Eldonian to moor for SATURDAY night: then as it's a 7-day operation for the moment, I can start off at 9am SUNDAY and escape the attentions of my BW helpers by midday SUNDAY. That's Four Whole Days to do ten hours' boating.

 

What have I missed? Maybe BW will take boats down AND up on the same day? Or allow a 4pm arrival at Bridge 9 for escort? Or not actually require an Eldonian stay on the way back? To quote the benefits of the Link from BW, "# An estimated 200,000 extra visitors annually to the Liverpool waterfront, spending an extra £1.9million each year. # Over 4,500 boat movements each year including visiting private, holiday hire, trip and restaurant boats." If anyone devotes four of their six and a half hire days (could be a thousand pound's worth of a £1600 week) that would be a very devoted Liverpool visitor.

[CanalWalker]

I hope they have done some dredging...

 

The blue bridges are now black and white and looking very smart.

[Hairy-Neil]

A lot will depend on what the level of demand is going to be once the initial novelty wears off.

 

I suspect that sadly it will return to very little demand once the honeymoon is over....

[MartinClark]

My best guess is this sort of programme:

 

I arrive at Hancock's Swing Bridge (br 9) at, say, noon on a WEDNESDAY: if the current arrangements are any guide, everyone has to start the guided section in the morning, so assume I can go through at 9am on THURSDAY, and then have to moor overnight after 3 hrs boating and 9 miles at Eldonian Basin. I'm then taken through Stanley Docks etc for another couple of hours' boating on FRIDAY and moor in Liverpool, and back again to Eldonian to moor for SATURDAY night: then as it's a 7-day operation for the moment, I can start off at 9am SUNDAY and escape the attentions of my BW helpers by midday SUNDAY. That's Four Whole Days to do ten hours' boating.

 

What have I missed?

Nothing, Peter. That just about sums things up. But don't forget that that might seem to be a fairly busy schedule to some of the target boaters.

 

Maybe BW will take boats down AND up on the same day?

Not sure what you mean by that but I think it could be the same team that operates the swing bridges and the locks, which seems to be a reason for reducing the number of bridges worked by BW to the two busy ones.

 

Or allow a 4pm arrival at Bridge 9 for escort? Or not actually require an Eldonian stay on the way back?

BW is aware that Wango Lane is not the ideal place to stay overnight (although not a problem area, there are no moorings or pub!) so they may encourage boaters to stop overnight at Maghull as at present and then make their way through the next 5 swing bridges before meeting them at Bridge 9, which may well be later than the standard 8.30 am BW start.

 

I suspect that sadly it will return to very little demand once the honeymoon is over....

 

I don't share your pessimism. Now that there is a proper destination for boaters I think it will prove to be an attractive and continuingly popular journey.

[starman]

Well it certainly is a bit of a palaver for a one-night 'been there, done that' stopover in Liverpool but I'd have thought most people (including us) would find plenty to merit two or three days.

We were up in the city last week, by car, and had a walk around the new Link - it's very impressive, if a little desolate while it waits for boats, and you can't get more central than the Salthouse Dock terminus. Looking forward to it!

[gaggle]

Bw at wigan are still insisting that no waiting list exists and that application forms will only be sent out through the next week , they also insist that when they are sent out boats will go through on a first come first go basis.

still no news about services.

[Paul&Claire]

Totally agree with Peter Scott's comments about journey times being ridiculous. From our mooring near Wigan this would take 6 DAYS to get there and back, OK if you are a liveaboard and have the time but to travel so short a distance over this length of time is silly. We did the assisted passage some years ago but went all the way down the Stanley locks and spent the night in the docks waiting for a morning slot through the Langton ship lock onto the Mersey. So why cant BW do the assisted passage all the way in a day. Why do we have to be assisted with the Stanley dock locks and the new ones, surely a lock is a lock!! The BW team can man the 2 busy swing bridges and all other boating traffic will move on thier own whenever they like.

Also looking at the pontoons in the dock they all look like long NB berths, what about the short NB's and GRP boats, will they have to double up on the pontoon and if you get boxed in and the other boaters have gone out/away what assistance will we get for moving other peoples boats to get out.

Looks like BW have spent millions on what appears to be a good thing but when you delve deeper into the operation of the link it appears badley thought out restrictive to the point of having no traffic because its too much hassle.

Almost forgot, anyone know if they lowered the stanley dock water level as the 8 ft air draft quoted by BW wasn't (some of you might remember our posts about getting jammed under the bridge at the bottom of the Stanley locks as you enter the dock and gouged paint of the wheelhouse roof to get through!!!) although we have a much smaller boat now so won't be a problem for us now but for others it might.

Come on BW it aint rocket science!! you will never get your expected traffic figures (after the initial novelty factor) if you make it a chore instead of a pleasure to get to Liverpool.

[MartinClark]

Also looking at the pontoons in the dock they all look like long NB berths,

The pontoons are of three different lengths.

[gaggle]

I met a boater at the weekend who gave me yet another reason to laugh at him , ho told me that he should have been the very first boater to sail through the link and it should have been some weeks ago.

I took this to mean his boat and not the work boat that went through a couple of weeks ago should have been allowed to be first , when i asked why he would expect this to be so he explained , well my friend at bw is directer for this region .

Last time i spoke to the same boater he was telling me how he lobby,s his friend at bw to charge the cc,s for moorings whether they have them or not.

Funny little man with funny idea,s but always worth a giggle.

[Neil TNC]

Nothing, Peter. That just about sums things up. But don't forget that that might seem to be a fairly busy schedule to some of the target boaters.

 

Well I thought our Collingwood to Parbold was a half days boating

[Neil@CanalVoyagers]

I've had the conversation about timings with the Wigan office.

 

As things stand at the moment, the plan is for the assisted passage to take place from Hancock's in the early afternoon (so everyone has to be there for midday). This means the group arrives at Eldonian late afternoon and moors overnight.

 

I think I was told there is a restriction on the number of lock movements down the flight - 12 movements - so 6 boats up and 6 down (but don't quote me on this bit).

 

Those heading down to the docks have an 8am start and make their way round to Salthouse for lunchtime.

 

So if you are booked in and arrive on time at Hancocks on say a Thursday lunchtime, then you would be in Salthouse for Friday lunch.

 

This is the current plan, but it may change as the summer goes on if a better working practice becomes clear.

[gaggle]

I would sooner be in the docks moored up for the night and get a few hour fishing a tide if the times are right.

Someone has said no right turn can be made into the working docks anymore so no danger and boats are well out of the way.

 

Anyone who does go down the eldonion be sure to have a few pints in the club.

[Ian B]

I would sooner be in the docks moored up for the night and get a few hour fishing a tide if the times are right.

Someone has said no right turn can be made into the working docks anymore so no danger and boats are well out of the way.

 

Anyone who does go down the eldonion be sure to have a few pints in the club.

 

Does the club serve good ( REAL ) beer, if not I'll have to travel

 

to a proper boozer, but hey I'm well used to that.

[gaggle]

You are only five minutes from the town centre so all your tastes can be catered for.

[Rick-n-Jo]

I cannot shake the feeling that I have gone to sleep and woken up in la-la land. Tell me if I'm wrong, but if somebody had come up with a scheme to spend £21 million on a new road that could only be used by six cars a day wouldn't they have been - quite rightly - laughed out of town?

 

If the docks can't accomodate more boats than that then there's something way wrong with the design of the scheme. These are docks after all, by definition places to tie up boats! If the bridges and locks can't be operated by boaters, then they've built them wrong. What exactly is this thing for?

 

I know I'll upset some on here who seem quite exited by this project, but I think that what they've built is ugly, dangerous looking and only marginally useful. And this at a time when there is supposedly no money to look after what we already have, or build or restore important links in the network that actually go somewhere, like the Cotswolds or the Bedford Link. I'd think that either of those, if open, would carry more than six boats. Come on, that's not even a coach party.

 

-discuss

Edited March 23, 2009 by Rick-n-Jo

[MartinClark]

Dangerous looking?

[Rick-n-Jo]

Dangerous looking?

 

Well I wouldn't want to fall in between those high stone walls in front of the Three Graces, for instance, how the heck would you get out?

 

Why no towpath?

[shroppie-ditchcrawler]

Thanks Martin. Your regular 'Link' updates have been great.

 

 

We have planned a 'round' trip via. Ship Canal > Mersey > Liverpool Link > Wigan etc .

 

Two boats booked in so far.

All the Ship Canal guys need is a date from us and we are away.

If you want any photos for the WW news.. let me know.

 

Black Pearl & Brahmms

 

We need to use Brunswick Lock. I think that will be a first ( do you know if there has been a Canal boat in this new lock yet)

 

I'm going to phone Wigan again tomorrow to make sure they have us on the list for the Salthouse moorings and Liverpool to Wigan bit. I booked this trip in Feb. so don't want to get stuck with a Liverpool Marina berth in Brunswick Dock whilst BW sort out the return trip through Bootle....( cant afford that).

[Dalesman]

Well I wouldn't want to fall in between those high stone walls in front of the Three Graces, for instance, how the heck would you get out?

 

Why no towpath?

There are ladders in the walls on both sides of the canal on this stretch, just like being in a lock.

[gaggle]

I dont know if you have been asleep but you could be right about you being in la la land.

what pictures are you looking at ? martin has plenty that show the area round the pier head ,not exactly your average towpath i agree but it is a world heritage site and the towpath needs to fit in with that.

If you should fall in get yourself to a ladder as you would in a lock.

 

the amount of boats to be allowed on and off is a joke but no one said bw was not being run by a bunch of comedians.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Martin. Your regular 'Link' updates have been great.

 

 

We have planned a 'round' trip via. Ship Canal > Mersey > Liverpool Link > Wigan etc .

 

Two boats booked in so far. All the Ship Canal guys need is a date from us and we are away.

If you want any photos for the WW news.. let me know.

 

Black Pearl & Brahmms

 

We need to use Brunswick Lock. I think that will be a first ( do you know if there has been a Canal boat in this new lock yet)

 

I'm going to phone Wigan again tomorrow to make sure they have us on the list for the Salthouse moorings and Liverpool to Wigan bit. I booked this trip in Feb. so don't want to get stuck with a Liverpool Marina berth in Brunswick Dock whilst BW sort out the return trip through Bootle....( cant afford that).

 

bw are up till today insisting that absolutley no boats at all have been able to book passage through the link , they insist no paperwork for any bookings for any boats have been has passed so something is not quite right.

think i will insist they put the next reply in writing.

[MartinClark]

Well I wouldn't want to fall in between those high stone walls in front of the Three Graces, for instance, how the heck would you get out?

 

 

Why no towpath?

 

There is no towpath through Stanley Dock, with its warehouses on each side. The docks through which the first part of the link pass are private property with no public access to the dock side. There are a series of tunnels between Princes Dock and Mann Island with two comparatively short open sections across the Pier Head. A towpath through these three tunnels, apart from adding greatly to the cost, would have created a potentially unsafe environment out of sight of security cameras.

 

I know Maria was horse drawn to Liverpool in 2007, but it was 40 years since the previous horse drawn voyage so that makes the case harder to argue!

[Rick-n-Jo]

I dont know if you have been asleep but you could be right about you being in la la land.

what pictures are you looking at ? martin has plenty that show the area round the pier head ,not exactly your average towpath i agree but it is a world heritage site and the towpath needs to fit in with that.

If you should fall in get yourself to a ladder as you would in a lock.

 

the amount of boats to be allowed on and off is a joke but no one said bw was not being run by a bunch of comedians.

 

That, of course, is my main point, you guys have picked up on a throwaway comment about it looking dangerous.

Nowadays, of course, it will have been risk assessed ad nauseum. So not really dangerous. Probably. Although a car seat round the blades in there would be bloody awkward.

 

I still think that it's a misguided use of money, completely dispropotionate, if six boats really is their predicted traffic level.

 

There are projects that are far more worthy. Why not finish the Monty, they've been faffing about with that for 35 years. The Thames and Severn would be a broad (ish!) link between the east and west and open up several circular routes. Wilts & Berks? Higher Avon? Northern Reaches.......

 

edited for speeling, spell checker doesn't do latin!

Edited March 24, 2009 by Rick-n-Jo