crime pays!

[canalman1946]

Well here we go, long ish story but please bare with me as I'm having a shit night!

First of all, this topic has nothing to do with my first entry regarding moving a boat.

I have been an active member on here for 5 years, and have recently added this name to the site.

As a hobby I buy old narrowboats, give them a lease of life then sell them on, had a few and a lot of fun, well in November I bought my first tupperware, a 21' norman cruiser. It was cheap, but then I've bought cheap narrowboats before.

Brought this boat back to my mooring and after a couple of days, alarm bells started to ring, it was hot, very hot, so being the law abiding citizen that I am, reported straight away to the police.

Same day, I had a bobby at my boat (not stolen one) took an 8 page statement, next day I met real owners, and same bobby who was very excited, why? because the herbert I bought this boat off was wanted across 3 constaberlys (sp) for 40 cases of fraude and deception.

A few weeks down the road and he's still at large and..... still contacting me! guess what? he's got me a tasty little 40 footer!

Now go back 4 pages I think and look up topic about a boat stolen recovered and trashed!!

I reported every step to the police, to the point they wanted me to be involved in a 'sting', I didn't in the end, bloody wished I had now, and it would have saved the above boat in previous topic.

Last night I got a call from the police to say they have this person in custody, today he was released on bail, as previous 40 offences couldn't be proved.

Its now down to me to do a ID and court follow up on the strength of one norman cruiser, HE WILL WALK, and has my number etc.

I can't do names or location for obvious reasons

I also can't reveal my real Id as well,

Thanks for listening

[gaggle]

put yourself in the hands of the police and you can be sure they will drop you like a hot brick once you have done what they want , you will then be on your own .

it wont be only him you have to worry about ,all his friends and there friends will know as the grass off the boat .

 

Of course crime pays , why do you think so much of it goes on , even the law makers are all on the rob.

[canalman1946]

your absolutely right gags, I'm beginning to think it will be a complete waste of time me identifying this bloke, might text him and see if he has any other tasty numbers!!!! I won't but it does piss me off

[Guest]

put yourself in the hands of the police and you can be sure they will drop you like a hot brick once you have done what they want , you will then be on your own .

it wont be only him you have to worry about ,all his friends and there friends will know as the grass off the boat .

 

Of course crime pays , why do you think so much of it goes on , even the law makers are all on the rob.

Take a look at our wonderful banks.

[fender]

Of course crime pays , why do you think so much of it goes on , even the law makers are all on the rob.

 

A recent FOI by the Guardian found more than 800 cops in the past two years had been convicted of crimes ranging from rape, murder, drug selling, to driving offences, beating up their wives, girlfriends, and a number were convicted of paedophilla. In the same period 300 met officers were convicted of the same sort of offences but the met had a larger percent of violent offences and rapes/sexual assaults.

[CanalWalker]

Yeah blame the police for the crime in this country. It was probably the police that stole this boat and tried to sell it, stupid police asking for evidence, why dont they just ignore the courts and hang people from lamp-posts? Bring back the Taliban I say.

[canalman1946]

I'm not blaming the police here, the system yes. When I reported the boat stolen, the bobby was here within the hour and they, the police want this scrote locked up asap.

He's probably out there now eyeing up his next victim/boat

[ChrisPy]

please keep this discussion purely objective; we should not lose sight of the possible sensitivities of our hospitable host Jon.

[johnjo]

please keep this discussion purely objective; we should not lose sight of the possible sensitivities of our hospitable host Jon.

 

 

Why! he's not been nicking boats, has he?

 

Sorry couldn't resist.

 

I'll leave now!

Edited March 8, 2009 by johnjo

[The Wanderer]

Crime will continue to pay for as long as we don't stand up to it.

 

Its your call whether you ID him or not and I can understand your reservations. The're not all the Krays and he could just admit to the offence before going to court.

 

This conning b*****d will continue to rip people off until someone has the balls to stand up to him.

 

My 87 year old disabled mother was conned by two bogus workmen last week stole her wedding ring and other stuff (which wasn't worth much only sentimental to her) now she's worried all the time. The Police were great with her when they arrived.

 

I'm sure they will die a slow death when it comes.

[steve hayes]

As with all things Governmental (new word?) it is the system that is SH*T.

 

Watch any of the police camera chase loose them programmes, if plod does catch them at the end of the programme that they tell you that there was insuffiecient evidenece to press charges !!!!

 

They have caught the little buggers with drugs on them, filmed them driving dangerously, fought with them and been spatt at, what more evidence does the system need.

 

Oh of cause, it all about statistics, we could not possibly have crime figures rising, NOT falling.

 

Get the noose and round up the lynch mob, for the CPS.

[Roger Gunkel]

Well here we go, long ish story but please bare with me as I'm having a shit night!

First of all, this topic has nothing to do with my first entry regarding moving a boat.

I have been an active member on here for 5 years, and have recently added this name to the site.

As a hobby I buy old narrowboats, give them a lease of life then sell them on, had a few and a lot of fun, well in November I bought my first tupperware, a 21' norman cruiser. It was cheap, but then I've bought cheap narrowboats before.

Brought this boat back to my mooring and after a couple of days, alarm bells started to ring, it was hot, very hot, so being the law abiding citizen that I am, reported straight away to the police.

Same day, I had a bobby at my boat (not stolen one) took an 8 page statement, next day I met real owners, and same bobby who was very excited, why? because the herbert I bought this boat off was wanted across 3 constaberlys (sp) for 40 cases of fraude and deception.

A few weeks down the road and he's still at large and..... still contacting me! guess what? he's got me a tasty little 40 footer!

Now go back 4 pages I think and look up topic about a boat stolen recovered and trashed!!

I reported every step to the police, to the point they wanted me to be involved in a 'sting', I didn't in the end, bloody wished I had now, and it would have saved the above boat in previous topic.

Last night I got a call from the police to say they have this person in custody, today he was released on bail, as previous 40 offences couldn't be proved.

Its now down to me to do a ID and court follow up on the strength of one norman cruiser, HE WILL WALK, and has my number etc.

I can't do names or location for obvious reasons

I also can't reveal my real Id as well,

Thanks for listening

 

I understand your feelings, but I think you are looking at it from the wrong point of view.

 

You are saying that you are worried that if you offer evidence against him, he or his mates might threaten you with serious violence and so you are thinking about saying nothing.

 

Firstly there seems to be a fear amongst a large number of the law abiding public, that anyone who is a criminal, is capable of any crime including violence etc. So the feeling then becomes one of fear of getting involved because of the possible consequences.

 

Frequently the opposite is true. This guy who sold you the Norman, is more likely to be a not particularly bright little toe rag, who, rather than working for his living, steals other people's hard earned and loved possessions then sells them on to pocket the money, no matter how hard that hits the people he stole from.

 

How about the scenario that this little toe rag is quite prepared to make you a criminal by getting you to handle stolen property, with no interest in the fact that you could end up in court, lose your own job and probably lose the money you paid him when the boat is recovered by the rightful owners. Why should you be frightened of him and his mates?? It should be him who is terrified of you and your mates paying him a visit and taking your own justice and compensation.

 

A lot of victims of crime take a similar view to you due to a common fear of 'nasty people'! Maybe this is an opportunity to to get a bit more of the scum removed before they can ruin someone elses life, maybe mine, maybe yours. If we do nothing they just move confidently on to the next victim.

 

Roger

[sociable_hermit]

He's stitched you up. Nail him.

 

You've really got to do it via the Police rather than smacking him round the head with something solid, otherwise you'd be no better than he is.

 

If you stand up to him, other witnesses may come forward regarding the other boats.

 

What I will say, though, is that if you put your balls on the line to shop this bloke the Police had better do a good job of it. It does annoy me when they take the criminal's side. Also, enlist as much help as you can from other boaters. Tell them what's going on and how much damage this bloke has done to people's lives, and ask them if they'll help to look after you and your boat for a while, just in case.

 

The way I look at it is - if you do nothing, he'll carry on robbing people, and in overall terms things will get worse.

 

If you shop him, it'll shake him up a bit for starters, and then there's probably a 50/50 chance that he'll be locked up. So that's maybe a 60/40 chance overall that he'll stop ripping people off. Ok so it's not 100%, but it's still way better odds than none whatsoever, which is the guaranteed odds if you do nothing. Hope is important.

 

P.S. I bought my boat off someone who tidies up old boats and sells them on - if it was you, thanks, she's a nice boat.

[NB Alnwick]

A recent FOI by the Guardian found more than 800 cops in the past two years had been convicted of crimes ranging from rape, murder, drug selling, to driving offences, beating up their wives, girlfriends, and a number were convicted of paedophilla. In the same period 300 met officers were convicted of the same sort of offences but the met had a larger percent of violent offences and rapes/sexual assaults.

 

If we could find a race of superhumans that simply cannot commit evil deeds and would be pleased to pursue decent honest justice for all, then no doubt we could recruit them to serve as our police force but, for the time being, we must make do with humans - and that includes accepting that, whatever checks and balances we apply, they may be less than perfect. Having said that, we probably do enjoy the best police force in the world.

 

If anyone thinks they can do better - then why not join them and do your bit for peace and justice.

[gaggle]

This guy who sold you the Norman, is more likely to be a not particularly bright little toe rag, who, rather than working for his living,

 

Roger

 

Roger the above makes me laugh because what you and others will not understand is that the antics the toe rag gets up to REALLY IS A JOB , to him anyway.

I can knock for someone and his wet will say , oh he has gone to work , now that work will keep him out all day regular hours but what is the job , he is a creep , he creeps business premises and steals wallets ,cash boxes or if he gets a nice touch of a friday the payroll.

call for someone else and he will not be available as he was up all night waiting for a delivery of drugs that should have arrived the day before but with the police sniffing around no appointments are kept at the stated time ,day or week.

all stress.

the next guy is not home because he is in portugal or brazil or some other port around the world waiting for a ship to dock so he can sneak the captains cabin as soon as the money for the crew and harbour fee,s has come on board.

even your commen shoplifter now has to put in the extra hours travelling between different towns as they become known in there own area ,again long hours stress and at any time they could be caught , if lucky by the police and not another person with scant regard to the law and punishments allowed.

 

the point is , these people regard whatever earner they are doing as a job ,it is not case of they come across something that looks easy to steal and they do so.

It really is a career choice and the criminal can and often does work long and hard , sometimes they get no reward at all and other times "never give a sucker a break times" they get a very nice touch that means they can have a few weeks off.

 

i bet the money paid out for the boat was spent as quick as it came in.

dont think it wont happen to ,it will because people have to work and earn a crust.

[sociable_hermit]

It's a simple choice - either you respect other people and try to do the best you can for yourself WITHOUT hurting other people, or you deliberately decide to step over the line and please yourself no matter what. The businessmen who wobble along the line of decency are bad enough - the office backstabbers and Lodge brothers and insider dealers. But at least they have their limits, and their crimes are generally corporate so the individual impact is less. Stray further from the straight and narrow and you're into the realms of individual attacks on people and property, where the damage is mental and physical as well as financial. Don't romanticise it. While there might be a few gentlemen thieves and Robin Hoods around, there are far more selfish thugs with their fingers in all sorts of pies - selling drugs, sharking loans, passing on stolen goods, laundering money, smuggling.... The only common trait in all of this is that it comes at a considerable cost to someone else.

 

I agree that all people should be given opportunities to improve their lot, so that crime becomes a less attrractive option in the first place, but that's not to say that crime is somehow justifiable as things are. It isn't, if you have a conscience. I've spent time in some rough areas of the UK and there is a significant minority who aren't trying their best at everything, or indeed anything - they are apathetic and expect everyone else to pay for their lives, because they can't be arsed. The crime generally comes in the mid-20s (after some background teenage hooliganism) when the little geniuses suddenly realise that the kids they had to get the flat and the benefits might actually cost more time and money to raise than the Government will provide. This in itself is not a sign of great intelligence. Plus by that stage the local dealers have normally done a good job of getting the parents hooked on whatever crap they're dealing, so there's even less money left to spend. They don't have the money to move to where the work is, or to re-train, and now they owe the local thugs they're screwed.

 

The only way out of this cycle is to teach people to think ahead, and to try hard to succeed within society, rather than preying on it. But the flip side to this is that the criminal element need to be removed from the scene as much as possible, and crime needs to be seen as a bad thing by the people most likely to turn to it, with serious punishments as a deterrent, so that the line between acceptable and unacceptable is much clearer, and much wider. Sometimes it's just too easy, when people turn a blind eye.

 

Left unchecked, crime tends to spread like cancer. If you get the chance to treat it, have a go. Every little helps.

[Bob the welder]

Crime will continue to pay for as long as we don't stand up to it.

 

Its your call whether you ID him or not and I can understand your reservations. The're not all the Krays and he could just admit to the offence before going to court.

 

This conning b*****d will continue to rip people off until someone has the balls to stand up to him.

 

My 87 year old disabled mother was conned by two bogus workmen last week stole her wedding ring and other stuff (which wasn't worth much only sentimental to her) now she's worried all the time. The Police were great with her when they arrived.

 

I'm sure they will die a slow death when it comes.

 

We, as members of the public, do stand up to these villains. The problem starts when we hand them over to the police. Due to a lack of evidence, or lack of resources, or in my mind, lack of interest, the villains are given a lawyer that is paid for by the tax payer, and the victim and the pensioners, and they get away with it. Just to start all over again.

 

Bob the Welder

[sueb]

We, as members of the public, do stand up to these villains. The problem starts when we hand them over to the police. Due to a lack of evidence, or lack of resources, or in my mind, lack of interest, the villains are given a lawyer that is paid for by the tax payer, and the victim and the pensioners, and they get away with it. Just to start all over again.

 

Bob the Welder

It is the CPU that decides if they will be taken to court. The police just catch them.

Sue

[Roger Gunkel]

Roger the above makes me laugh because what you and others will not understand is that the antics the toe rag gets up to REALLY IS A JOB ,

 

I'm sorry that my comment makes you laugh and that you see villainy as a job!

 

A job is what someone does to earn a living for themselves and their families, by honest endeavour! They offer a service or labour and receive payment in return. I don't care what you feel about how many hours a criminal carries out his villainy or how stressful they may find it. The fact remains that they are parasites leaching off of the hard work of decent people. They destroy peoples hopes and dreams, ruin lives and offer nothing back to society by their efforts. They are a cancer that grows and spreads, infecting others along the way. Like any disease, it needs understanding and treating and sometimes quarantining when other methods fail.

 

What I and 'the others' fail to understand is why we seem to be too weak and wooley to address the problem effectively.

 

Roger

[fender]

I'm sorry that my comment makes you laugh and that you see villainy as a job!

 

A job is what someone does to earn a living for themselves and their families, by honest endeavour! They offer a service or labour and receive payment in return. I don't care what you feel about how many hours a criminal carries out his villainy or how stressful they may find it. The fact remains that they are parasites leaching off of the hard work of decent people. They destroy peoples hopes and dreams, ruin lives and offer nothing back to society by their efforts. They are a cancer that grows and spreads, infecting others along the way. Like any disease, it needs understanding and treating and sometimes quarantining when other methods fail.

 

What I and 'the others' fail to understand is why we seem to be too weak and wooley to address the problem effectively.

 

Roger

 

I dont agree. Lots of 'legitimate' jobs also destroy people's lives. Take these scheming bankers for example. They have destroyed many lives by creating a recession. Take powdered milk to India as another example. This destroyed many lives of infants by foistering unsuitable milk powder in place of breastfeeding. Dumping unsuitable and rejected products on third world countries. There's thalidomide and other medical disasters in the name of profit that have destryoed many lives. And there's the police and criminal justice system which destroys a lot of lives, and puts in overcrowded prisons at least a third who are not criminals but have been wrongly convicted. There's the murderistic military and their 'right' to kill in a war and decimate entire communites etc. And many of these people in these legitmate jobs take a wage home to their families. If you want to understand criminals, first you need to understand the hypocrisy and the double standards our societies have, then perhaps you might understand criminals better and not berate them so much for their actvities. The sad thing is the human mind often delves in obsfucating and contradictory methodology which means it is guilty of disonnace and its not easy to bring the human mind into a more advanced mode of analysis and understanding.

Edited March 9, 2009 by fender

[Sir Nibble]

I've put my five eggs in in another thread. I will NOT EVER co-operate with the police.

I was advised many moons ago, "Never take legal action, take illegal action".

[stickleback]

I'm sorry that my comment makes you laugh and that you see villainy as a job!

 

A job is what someone does to earn a living for themselves and their families, by honest endeavour! They offer a service or labour and receive payment in return. I don't care what you feel about how many hours a criminal carries out his villainy or how stressful they may find it. The fact remains that they are parasites leaching off of the hard work of decent people. They destroy peoples hopes and dreams, ruin lives and offer nothing back to society by their efforts. They are a cancer that grows and spreads, infecting others along the way. Like any disease, it needs understanding and treating and sometimes quarantining when other methods fail.

What I and 'the others' fail to understand is why we seem to be too weak and wooley to address the problem effectively.

 

Roger

 

Beautifully put. And sometimes quarantining for a very long time - until all chance of reinfection is gone.

 

Stickleback

 

I've put my five eggs in in another thread. I will NOT EVER co-operate with the police.

I was advised many moons ago, "Never take legal action, take illegal action".

 

 

So, if your boat was trashed, or your car stolen and set on fire, or your possessions stolen, or you were mugged and badly beaten, or some close member of your family raped or murdered - you wouldn't want the police to help, or hope that some sensible concerned citizen would act as witness to help you get justice?

 

You'd be happy to stick to your "philosophy" of NEVER co-operating with the police and conversely, never expecting them / society to co-operate with you?

 

I wish you luck. You'll need it.

 

Stickleback

[gaggle]

I'm sorry that my comment makes you laugh and that you see villainy as a job!

 

A job is what someone does to earn a living for themselves and their families, by honest endeavour! They offer a service or labour and receive payment in return. I don't care what you feel about how many hours a criminal carries out his villainy or how stressful they may find it. The fact remains that they are parasites leaching off of the hard work of decent people. They destroy peoples hopes and dreams, ruin lives and offer nothing back to society by their efforts. They are a cancer that grows and spreads, infecting others along the way. Like any disease, it needs understanding and treating and sometimes quarantining when other methods fail.

 

What I and 'the others' fail to understand is why we seem to be too weak and wooley to address the problem effectively.

 

Roger

 

 

it would appear roger that you have "stole" some words from what i said to make it suit you , why did you choose to leave the words " to him anyway" of the qoute of my post.

I did not say i see villiany as a job and well you know it so why have you tried to say i did , maybe just because it suited you just as it suits a robber to steal from others.

you and others cant address the problem because it needs backbone and the villians know that backbone is lacking.

[Sir Nibble]

So, if your boat was trashed, or your car stolen and set on fire, or your possessions stolen, or you were mugged and badly beaten, or some close member of your family raped or murdered - you wouldn't want the police to help, or hope that some sensible concerned citizen would act as witness to help you get justice?

 

You'd be happy to stick to your "philosophy" of NEVER co-operating with the police and conversely, never expecting them / society to co-operate with you?

 

I wish you luck. You'll need it.

 

Stickleback

I would need a crime number for insurance purposes. I would not expect the police to have any other contribution to make whatever.

[gaggle]

Same here .