Where is that?

[Derek R.]

Here are five for starters, I know all the locations bar one:

 

This one - It looks like the short pound between Sweeps 2, but the bridge (is it a bridge?) appears to go downhill to the right. Anyone?

 

Picture 1

 

Picture 2

 

Picture 3

 

Picture 4

 

Picture 5

 

Derek

[Hobbler]

I think No 3 is top end of the GU somewhere around Itchington and I recognise No 4 but just cannot think of the lock name - doh !

[Mike Nicoll]

I think No 3 is top end of the GU somewhere around Itchington and I recognise No 4 but just cannot think of the lock name - doh !

no2 looks like lady capels nr watford no3 fisherys hemel hempsted no4 iron br lock watford no5 northchurch

[alan_fincher]

no2 looks like lady capels nr watford no3 fisherys hemel hempsted no4 iron br lock watford no5 northchurch

Agreed with numbers 3 tand 4.

 

3 is the bridge a few hundred yards above Fishery, (possibly now called Old Fishery Lane ??).

 

5 could well be Northchurch, but the sunken boats, and that brick structure on the left are a bit of an oddity.

 

2 could well be Lady Capels, but it also looks like some of the reverse bends between Boxmoor and Apsley. I'm not clever enough to say!

[Speedwheel]

Number 4 is in Cassio Park. Can't remember the name of the lock. The house is not there now.

 

Number 2 looks like it might be in Cassio also. Possibly just approaching below the lock in number 4.

 

Number 3 Fishery?

 

Edit: Note to self - read other replys first!

Edited February 15, 2009 by Satellite

[Keeping Up]

Is number 1 at Berkhamstead, by the Railway Station?

[debbifiggy]

Is number 1 at Berkhamstead, by the Railway Station?

No 1 can't be between Sweeps 2 because the bridge angle, the railings etc. and it can't be by the station as the towpath is on the wrong side. I wonder if it's by the old gas works by Gas 2? Althought the towpath would be on the wrong side again. I'm stumped. D

[Derek R.]

No. 2 Is indeed Lady Capels, boats southbound.

No. 3 Is the bridge 148 above Fishery lock, and little changed to this day - the double telegraph poles being the main loss. That's the railway embankment in the background. (Yes Alan, Old Fishery Lane).

No. 4 Is Iron Bridge lock 77 Cassiobury Park - does anyone know when the house was demolished? Wide boat Leeds possibly for Tooveys Mill.

 

No. 5 Is not Northchurch!

I can recall the ribs of some of those boats protruding from the water as recent as 1990.

The pound looks well 'off', and probably why they are all waiting around - more water.

 

No. 1 has a picture credit that simply says 'Lower Grand Union'. I would imagine the buildings and railings, along with the telegraph poles must be long gone. I did wonder if the negative had been transposed when printing putting everything about face, but it would seem more natural (for most) to have held the horse with the right hand, and the tin with the left. The curve of the towpath screams Sweeps taken from outside the Rising Sun, but the bridge looks all wrong for that.

 

Could it have been taken by Gas Two? Firstly, the towpath is the wrong side, though if the picture IS transposed it's possible - BUT, there's no bridge at gas Two.

It's not the Nestles factory down the Aylesbury arm, as the windows are wrong for one thing, and the Nestles building is one big solid mill type building close to the road bridge.

Was there anywhere along the Buckby flight that looked like that?

It's not the original Berkhamsted railway station, as that was further back and had the appearance of a Church, with buttressed walls - and the towpath fence and buildings as seen are wrong.

The buildings do have a 'municipal' appearance though - and Louise has just taken a look and said "I know where that is." (Oh yeah, here we go) "That's by Apsley yard where old misery guts used to work from." And I think she might be right. Could these buildings be factory units amongst the New'uns, between locks 65 & 66? Looks favourite to me so far.

 

Derek

Edited February 16, 2009 by Derek R.

[Derek R.]

Well, as no-one is guessing - No. 5 is Berkhamsted.

 

The boats had been sunk (so I'm told) to hold the bank back, and their ribs were still visible in the nineties.

The strange brick structure was the lock keepers house, nothing of which now remains save a little bit of end wall to that which fronted the towpath.

 

Derek

[alan_fincher]

Could it have been taken by Gas Two? Firstly, the towpath is the wrong side, though if the picture IS transposed it's possible - BUT, there's no bridge at gas Two.

Nothing like that near Gas 2, even transposed. The land is much lower than the canal on the towpath side, (on the other side too, in fact!)

 

It's not the Nestles factory down the Aylesbury arm, as the windows are wrong for one thing, and the Nestles building is one big solid mill type building close to the road bridge.

I wondered that at first, but that doesn't look like an Aylesbury arm setting (or bridge).

 

Was there anywhere along the Buckby flight that looked like that?

I very much doubt it - far too built up.

 

It's not the original Berkhamsted railway station, as that was further back and had the appearance of a Church, with buttressed walls - and the towpath fence and buildings as seen are wrong.

Agreed, and that would long since have gone by the time of this picture, (although the original goods shed remains, as evidence the station was once further up).

 

I don't see it as Berkhamsted.

 

The buildings do have a 'municipal' appearance though - and Louise has just taken a look and said "I know where that is." (Oh yeah, here we go) "That's by Apsley yard where old misery guts used to work from." And I think she might be right. Could these buildings be factory units amongst the New'uns, between locks 65 & 66? Looks favourite to me so far.

You've got me confused.

 

The bridge certainly can't be the roving bridge below the top Apsley lock, so the only candidate bridge is the road bridge before that (going South). So, unless the photo is reversed, be would have to ne north of the Durrant's Hill Road bridge, looking south. Not only is the canal not that shape there, I doubt there have ever been big buildings there, (there certainly haven't been in my living memory".

 

To me the photo is much more in keeping with much further south, such as areas around Uxbridge. I don't know that far south well enough, but my hunch is you are all looking too far north, (by a lot!)

 

But I've been known to be wrong, (often!).

 

Alan

[alan_fincher]

I did wonder if the negative had been transposed when printing putting everything about face, but it would seem more natural (for most) to have held the horse with the right hand, and the tin with the left.

ADDITIONALLY:

 

I'll be careful here, as I know we have some real horse-boating experts on the forum.

 

But in most pictures I've seen, if the horse is being led, I get the impression that the person in charge normally positions themself on the side of the horse that's away from the cut, (possibly to stop them ending up underneath "Dobbin" should they go in ?).

 

In that case which hand they used would depend on which side the towpath was on.

 

The more I look at that picture, the more the towpath looks maybe seven to nine feet wide.

 

Such towpaths are a rarity in Hertfordshire, but commonplace closer in to London, and my money remains on "further south".

[alan_fincher]

No. 4 Is Iron Bridge lock 77 Cassiobury Park - does anyone know when the house was demolished?

Ian J Wilson's "The Grand Union Canal from Brentford to Braunston" says.....

 

The lock cottage did not belong to the Grand Junction canal, but to the Earl of Essex. When his ancestral home, Cassiobury House, was demolished in 1927, so was the lock cottage.

 

Mind you that book contains a few errors, so I'd never totally rely on it as a source, and would want to see supporting information elsewhere.

[Lesd]

I love these threads....

 

2 looks like the bend immediately south of the old Roses lime wharf at Boxmoor to me.

1 has me stumped too.

 

Les

[Derek R.]

I love these threads....

 

2 looks like the bend immediately south of the old Roses lime wharf at Boxmoor to me.

1 has me stumped too.

 

Les

 

Me too! I know where you mean by Rose's, but they are just entering the 'wide' with Lady Capel's over on the right, and with Lady Capel's lock behind them (out of view).

 

QUOTE:- "The lock cottage did not belong to the Grand Junction canal, but to the Earl of Essex. When his ancestral home, Cassiobury House, was demolished in 1927, so was the lock cottage."

 

Thanks, I did wonder that it looked more 'Estate' than Canal. What of the cottage at Albert's Two?

 

QUOTE:- "ADDITIONALLY:

 

I'll be careful here, as I know we have some real horse-boating experts on the forum.

 

But in most pictures I've seen, if the horse is being led, I get the impression that the person in charge normally positions themself on the side of the horse that's away from the cut, (possibly to stop them ending up underneath "Dobbin" should they go in ?).

 

In that case which hand they used would depend on which side the towpath was on."

 

I'd be inclined to agree with that, but as suggested, it would need some input from towing horse handlers.

 

If I could use a bit of animal knowledge (only a little - my sister is the expert), although it might seem logical and safer to not be placed between animal and canal, there may also be a relationship between any individual animal and its handler that just might determine on which side of each other the pair worked. Furthermore, having read 'Horse on the Cut', it seems that throughout most of the country leading the horse was only commonplace on the Regent's, and even there, the pictures show a mix of practices.

 

Elsewhere in the book where the horse is being followed, the normal practice (sensibly) is to be placed towpath side of the stretcher and tow line - as the lady is doing by bridge 148 (Picture 3). There is one exception illustrated to this where a small girl is between the horse's rear quarter and the canal. Maybe she had a little more to learn! (Or she knows more that me!)

 

The 'puzzle' picture No. 1 has me stumped. But my 'familiarity' with further south than the Slough arm is pretty non-existent.

 

Anyone with knowledge south of West Drayton with regard to this? Norwood? Hanwell? Pity the photo isn't clearer, and I'm still not totally convinced we are looking at a bridge beyond, though It does 'look' like one.

 

Derek

[Derek R.]

I love these threads....

 

2 looks like the bend immediately south of the old Roses lime wharf at Boxmoor to me.

1 has me stumped too.

 

Les

 

Les, despite the picture credit stating Lady Capel's, i'm having doubts about that No. 2 now, as the shot is taken from a bridge. I'm off to Apsley and Cassio to have a look!

 

Derek

[Derek R.]

Well, I was wrong - and I was right!

 

Yes, it was by Lady Capel's - but looking South from the turnover bridge, not North as I'd previously stated!

 

 

Took a look at the bends by Rose's - doesn't compare.

 

Edited February 18, 2009 by Derek R.

[Derek R.]

Pic No.5

 

 

 

The mystery remains! Here is Apsley by the BW yard. The ground rises in the distance in a similar way, but the curve of the path is wrong, as is the bridge.

 

 

[alan_fincher]

The mystery remains! Here is Apsley by the BW yard. The ground rises in the distance in a similar way, but the curve of the path is wrong, as is the bridge.

 

 

Also the sanitary station is quite clearly missing from the older picture.

 

Interesting though that it's one of the few bits of GU towpath in these parts to match the width of that in the old shot.

 

The design of the turnover bridge clearly rules it out, though, as you say.

[Steve King]

Picture 1

 

Well, what an intriguing scene. Apparently urban judging by the buildings behind the railings, with a bridge over the canal in the distance with a large black pipe attached to the side of it. Telegraph poles along the towing path suggest this is part of a major route. The tow rope appears to be on the ground in the foreground, leading off to the left where the boat might be locking downhill. Downhill because the photographer has a slightly elevated position (on the lockside?) with respect to the boatman and his horse. The canal certainly narrows to the left, making two narrows in a short distance which would be unusual, or could it be a layby? It has the feel of somewhere in the Greater London area.

 

I've used Google satellite to follow the canal from Bull's Bridge to Paddington to Limehouse, then from Brentford to Bulbourne and there are surprisingly few likely locations, just two in fact.

 

The first one was the view from City Road Locks towards the road bridge before Islington Tunnel. However there are gardens where the buildings would be, and the original hump-back bridge still stands here, with no pipe.

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sour...mp;t=k&z=19

 

The second, suggested by canal historian Dr Michael Essex-Lopresti, is at Alperton and looking towards Manor Farm Road (or piggery) Bridge. I can recall a green warehouse beyond the towing path decades ago, now replaced by housing. The bridge I think has been widened and is of two different styles. If this is the location then there is no lock, we are looking at a layby, but there is no immediatly obvious way to tie-up a boat or lighter for the purpose of loading.

 

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sour...mp;t=k&z=19

 

Anyone near there and could take a look?

 

 

Steve

[Derek R.]

The City Lock has the right shape of coping, but those houses would surely have been there in the twenties when I suspect the photo was taken.

 

Another angle:

 

http://tinyurl.com/bndou7

 

And another on the Alperton location:

 

http://tinyurl.com/d7jkb6

 

Not sure how it would marry with the rising ground on the horizon, if indeed it is rising ground and not the rooftops of Northern lights in a factory.

 

I'm going to try the publishers for more info.

 

I'm still not totally convinced that is a bridge and pipe. It looks all the world like it might be, but there's just not enough clarity in the print, and those buildings are very distinctive to Gas, Water, Municipal works, or even Railway. The picture caption reads "A heavy horse on the lower reaches of the Grand Union Canal" No reference in any text.

 

There's a chap at Cassio who worked horse barges from Brentford to Croxley along with his Father before him. I must show him this one.

[alan_fincher]

I don't know if it helps in any way, but archive pictures of the GU often seem to show some stretches as having the twinned telegraph poles, and others with single poles, (but more "branches" at the top).

 

It's possible this changed over time, but there are some stretches I'm sure I've only ever seen with the doubled ones, for instance. I don't know if the single poles shown here were limited to some stretches?

 

My knowledge of the Paddington Arm / Regents is pretty scant, and I don't think I've seen many old photos of them. But did they ever even have poles in the style shown ?

 

I agree it looks like a utilities site, (gas, water, electric). I believe it is a bridge you can see at the end, but not sure about a pipe.

 

Very mysterious.....

[Steve King]

Something else I've just noticed about the photo is that the railings rise the closer they are to the photographer. I would say this reaffirms that the photographer is on slightly higher ground than the horse and boatman. Add to this the fact that a horse is available to have its photo taken and I would again want to suggest that there may well be a lock to the left with a boat in it descending (why else would the horse be stopped from working?).

 

This would rule out the Paddington branch straight away (no locks) and the Regents and Hertford Union Canals (towpath on the left going down). So where on the lower GU main line is there a bridge shortly below a lock with the towing path on the right/west side and which had some municipal buildings beyond the towing path?

 

 

Steve

[Paul H]

Something else I've just noticed about the photo is that the railings rise the closer they are to the photographer. I would say this reaffirms that the photographer is on slightly higher ground than the horse and boatman. Add to this the fact that a horse is available to have its photo taken and I would again want to suggest that there may well be a lock to the left with a boat in it descending (why else would the horse be stopped from working?).

 

This would rule out the Paddington branch straight away (no locks) and the Regents and Hertford Union Canals (towpath on the left going down). So where on the lower GU main line is there a bridge shortly below a lock with the towing path on the right/west side and which had some municipal buildings beyond the towing path?

 

 

Steve

 

The problem is that its possible that none of the original features in the photo survive today. The buildings may have gone and the railings could have gone for war salvage - as many did. I don't think we can assume a lock either - the rise in the twpath may indicate a towapth bridge over a factory arm. For some reason I felt inclined to guess somewhere in the Yiewsley/West Drayton are but can't find anything immediately obvious on Goole maps - but perhaps in view of the above this is not surprising.

 

Paul H

[alan_fincher]

The problem is that its possible that none of the original features in the photo survive today. The buildings may have gone and the railings could have gone for war salvage - as many did. I don't think we can assume a lock either - the rise in the twpath may indicate a towapth bridge over a factory arm. For some reason I felt inclined to guess somewhere in the Yiewsley/West Drayton are but can't find anything immediately obvious on Goole maps - but perhaps in view of the above this is not surprising.

 

Paul H

I agree entirely - there is so little to go on, and if it's London area even the bridge will likely have been rebuilt by now.

 

I thought I was on to something with the site of a former flour mill at Wolf Bridge, Norwood Green, Southall, as the gabled ends of some buildings seemed to match, as did the bridge. There were even single rather than double telegraph poles....

 

However looking at Google Earth there is only a straight run of towpath there now, no sign of that curve near the camera that possibly implies a lock.

 

This one is a tough one, I think - if those buildings survived, I'm sure somebody would know.

[Ray]

I'm still puzzled over picture No. 5

 

I thought of Northchurch lock because of the reasonably sharp curve away to the right in the distance. However, looking at Google even that curve doesn't look that sharp. Likewise, the curve above what I presume to be Lock 51 isn't that sharp either.

 

Is it just the angle of the more recent shot that make the curve look less sharp?