Working Boat handling - new training films on YouTube

[Roger t' Bodger]

I thought forum members might like a nudge to alert them to some new short films about handling a pair of working boats.

 

Narrow Boat Trust members David Blagrove, Fabian Hiscock as trainers and Mike Askin as nimble camraman, take a group of 'freshers' through the basic skills of managing a motor and butty through locks at Stoke Bruerne.

 

 

A biting wind fresh off the Urals is a problem on this chilling bleak day and nothing goes quite to plan but everyone gets the general idea.

Best watched in a warm room with a mug of tea!

 

 

Thumblining

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GjKnxxeP4QM

 

Singling Out

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ioia0djeuYQ

 

Narrowboat Design

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RiBeL9d3SXU

 

Enjoy, and if you want to find out more about the Narrow Boat Trust,

please visit their website at:

http://www.narrowboattrust.org.uk/

[Chris J W]

Thanks for that!

 

I've seen Thumblining described quite a few times on here, but makes far more sense now I've actually seen it.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

Very neat.

[Tam & Di]

I assume David was just roped in to instruct (only noticed the bad pun retrospectively, I swear!), and did not have anything to do with how the boats were set up. There are one or two oddities about it:

 

* The mast lines appear to be tied to the top of the masts. They should just have a small eyesplice at the end which sits on the looby. When tension on the mast line is forward the looby comes to an upright position, and whoever puts the line on would ordinarily give it a slight pull to make that happen. If the line does then jam the looby swivels backwards allowing the line to pull off rather than pull the whole mast over.

* The short line which goes from the butty's shackle to the dolly on the motor when breasted (visible in the still photo) would be left attached as the lock empties. When the lock is empty and the motor put into reverse to tow the gate open it will also pull the butty back which opens the butty gate as well. This line is then dropped off as the motor goes ahead to move out. Although it is not shown in the video clip it was obviously the person on the lockside who opened the butty's gate instead.

* Both mast lines were too long, so there was far too much line hanging down when the half hitch was made. This would be bound to catch on something sooner or later. The lines also looked to be finished in back-splices (rather than being whipped) which means the ends were slightly bulbous - again a hazard should anything go wrong. In the demonstration that did happen, as the line almost jammed behind a rotten section of gate timber, and the person on the lockside had to free it. The whole point is there would not be anyone at the lockside in "the good old days" as if there was a spare person they would have gone on to get the next lock.

* There seemed to be something on the topmast just behind one of the masts. Maybe I was seeing things, but certainly there should not be anything just lying around.

* Although David did comment on having put the motor on the wrong side in the uphill lock I'm not sure why he did that. Possibly not used to that motor, though it must be very difficult to have to work with a second person on the stern anyway.

 

Wouldn't this thread be better in "Boat Handling"?

Edited January 24, 2009 by Tam & Di

[alan_fincher]

Very neat.

You must be seeing a different clip from the ones I'm getting.

 

The thumblining one looks more or less wrong throughout to me, and a good demonstration of how not to, in my view.

 

The line they manage to get hooked round a beam on the gate could have done someone a fair bit of damage, and because it's not correctly attached to the butty's mast, it goes horribly taut, rather than just getting pulled harmlessly of the looby when things don't go to plan.

 

It would be great if someone has a video of it being done properly, for comparison, (someone of David Blagrove's experience should have known how much slack to leave in the lines, surely ? )

 

EDITED: For spelling, (right spelling, but wrong word.... )

Edited January 24, 2009 by alan_fincher

[denboy]

After wtching the clip i now know why the handrails become loose

[Tam & Di]

After wtching the clip i now know why the handrails become loose

 

There's certainly no reason why that should loosen the handrails it's a steady pull, not a sudden snatch at full revs. The rails where they adjoin at the centre are actually shaped specifically for use in that way as well.

[down the north]

I havent seen the video, however I'm sure Tam is right in what he sees, the moral of the story is to think, plan, practice, and get it right for the camera, because if its anything less than perfect, someones goin to spot it !!

martin

[alan_fincher]

Here's a rather better executed use of the technique.

 

I remember this as being quite effortless - every lock he had it spot on.....

 

[Theo]

I assume David was just roped in to instruct (only noticed the bad pun retrospectively, I swear!), and did not have anything to do with how the boats were set up. There are one or two oddities about it:

 

* The mast lines appear to be tied to the top of the masts. They should just have a small eyesplice at the end which sits on the looby. When tension on the mast line is forward the looby comes to an upright position, and whoever puts the line on would ordinarily give it a slight pull to make that happen. If the line does then jam the looby swivels backwards allowing the line to pull off rather than pull the whole mast over.

* The short line which goes from the butty's shackle to the dolly on the motor when breasted (visible in the still photo) would be left attached as the lock empties. When the lock is empty and the motor put into reverse to tow the gate open it will also pull the butty back which opens the butty gate as well. This line is then dropped off as the motor goes ahead to move out. Although it is not shown in the video clip it was obviously the person on the lockside who opened the butty's gate instead.

* Both mast lines were too long, so there was far too much line hanging down when the half hitch was made. This would be bound to catch on something sooner or later. The lines also looked to be finished in back-splices (rather than being whipped) which means the ends were slightly bulbous - again a hazard should anything go wrong. In the demonstration that did happen, as the line almost jammed behind a rotten section of gate timber, and the person on the lockside had to free it. The whole point is there would not be anyone at the lockside in "the good old days" as if there was a spare person they would have gone on to get the next lock.

* There seemed to be something on the topmast just behind one of the masts. Maybe I was seeing things, but certainly there should not be anything just lying around.

* Although David did comment on having put the motor on the wrong side in the uphill lock I'm not sure why he did that. Possibly not used to that motor, though it must be very difficult to have to work with a second person on the stern anyway.

 

Wouldn't this thread be better in "Boat Handling"?

 

Agreed. Off you go!

 

Nick

[Speedwheel]

Here is a nice example of thumblining on my mothers boats in the 1970's. It shows the point Tam was making about the butty opening the gate too. It also shows the right length of line to use.

 

Tam and Di - I'm sure you recognise the boats!

 

 

Edited January 24, 2009 by Satellite

[Roger t' Bodger]

Hi all Some interesting commemts there about methods there. Quite honestly it all looks a bit dodgy to me and a bit hardwearing on the current BW infrastructure (rotting)

 

But the basic arguement is about how you do something that you believe will result in an act that is easier and more effective than doing it another way?

 

What on earth was the National Institute of Waterboatman (& Waterboat Ladies) thinking of, when handing out those certificates of achievement to all those boat-people down the ages. Quite frankly its a bit worrying as there seems to be quite a number of techniques/proceedures that have different approaches to how you get the best result. And acting as a sort of blurring between these points is those boat person(s) who choose to alter the accepted method to suit a weak left arm or was just plain scared of rats - who knows, the oral and written history is fragmentary throughout the history of canals and many 'facts ' are a matter of greatly informed opinion.

 

I thought I had made it clear that there was a wind from the Urals throughout the filming of these segments that blew hard on these unladen clothed-up boats as they approached the locks either north or south bound. Hence a need to deal with these conditions and adapt to them by altering the proceedure - this is called hardwon experience in action.

 

Gods Bless

[LEO]

* Although David did comment on having put the motor on the wrong side in the uphill lock I'm not sure why he did that. Possibly not used to that motor, though it must be very difficult to have to work with a second person on the stern anyway.

 

Wouldn't this thread be better in "Boat Handling"?

Even to my novice, but interested eye this situation looked dangerous, and the rope slipping through the rotting wood on the gate looked as if things weren't going to plan. Thought the video was interesting but would have been better if both gates opened.

 

Perhaps it should be re-filmed to make it perfect.

 

Leo

[Jason Wilson and Family]

You must be seeing a different clip from the ones I'm getting.

 

The thumblining one looks more or less wrong throughout to me, and a good demonstration of how not to, in my view.

 

The line they manage to get hooked round a beam on the gate could have done someone a fair bit of damage, and because it's not correctly attached to the butty's mast, it goes horribly taut, rather than just getting pulled harmlessly of the looby when things don't go to plan.

 

It would be great if someone has a video of it being done properly, for comparison, (someone of David Blagrove's experience should have known how much slack to leave in the lines, surely ? )

 

EDITED: For spelling, (right spelling, but wrong word.... )

 

Nope, just talking out of no experience. I only thought it was neat that someone went through the trouble to put videos like this together.

 

The thumb-lining didn't look like how I had heard it explained to me but, like I said, no experience.

 

I thought I had made it clear that there was a wind from the Urals throughout the filming of these segments that blew hard on these unladen clothed-up boats as they approached the locks either north or south bound. Hence a need to deal with these conditions and adapt to them by altering the proceedure - this is called hardwon experience in action.

 

I think any mistakes can be chalked up to weather and inexperienced crew. Like when he asked the guy on the butty to pick up the loop and they just sailed past until he turned to check.

[alan_fincher]

Here is a nice example of thumblining on my mothers boats in the 1970's. It shows the point Tam was making about the butty opening the gate too. It also shows the right length of line to use.

 

Tam and Di - I'm sure you recognise the boats!

 

 

 

Tam and Di no doubt recognise the boats, but for the less initiated, what are they, please ? (They look nicely turned out).

 

The one variance on my memory, is that in this case somebody seemed to have been ashore to drop the paddles, even if the boats opened the gates. Of course the more typical scenario is the paddles were left raised.

 

Also, (questions!, so many questions!), do you know the location, please ? There are clearly side ponds. I'm guessing up in the Ivinghoe area, but may be a million miles adrift.

 

Alan

[Tam & Di]

I thought I had made it clear that there was a wind from the Urals throughout the filming of these segments that blew hard on these unladen clothed-up boats as they approached the locks either north or south bound. Hence a need to deal with these conditions and adapt to them by altering the proceedure - this is called hardwon experience in action.

 

Obviously it is true that these are not "working" boats as there would be no reason to cloth them up when they were empty. But the main reason they get into trouble on a couple of occasions on the video is the lack of fluency; manœuvres are being carried out too slowly, probably because they are mob-handed and inexperienced. I wrote on another thread re how a lot of manœuvres work better at speed, and several of these shown here are cases in point.

 

I guess my main sadness is that they are now "out there" with David Blagrove being a name people regard as an "expert", but do not give any sort of realistic picture of professional boating as it should be done. As suggested by another contributer it would have been much better to have got the boating right before it was filmed, or at least to make it clear these were very naïve trainees on board.

 

 

BTW - Baddesey & Barnes showing how to do it? I don't recall Baddesey having a low cratch though. And has the butty steerer (who obviously does not have to steer as they are breasted) dropped the paddles as the gates are opened and gone on down to get the next lock?

Edited January 25, 2009 by Tam & Di

[alan_fincher]

BTW - Baddesey & Barnes showing how to do it? And has the butty steerer (who obviously does not have to steer as they are breasted) dropped the paddles as the gates are opened and gone on down to get the next lock?

I did wonder if it was Badsey & Barnes, as I remember them in similar colours, and it looks to me that Barnes may well have a slight extension to it's cabin, (a kitchen area IIRC).

 

Fortunately, whilst the NBT may not, it seems, always be best at showing how boats were worked, there are other enthusiasts out there putting in pretty fine performances. I don't think you would have been disappointed in any way had you seen Towcester come down as part of the 'Jam Ole' thing. No plumes of black smoke, or heavy floods of water from the prop, just a performance that always had the boat precisely where it needed to be, at just the right time, for optimum progress. I don't know the lady's name, but she could sure handle a boat, (and it would make a more interesting video, in my view).

[Hairy-Neil]

I don't know the lady's name, but she could sure handle a boat, (and it would make a more interesting video, in my view).

 

Julia Cook I believe....

 

 

I assume David was just roped in to instruct (only noticed the bad pun retrospectively, I swear!), and did not have anything to do with how the boats were set up.

 

I believe David is an NBT member, or certainly has been.....

 

 

I agree on the get it 100% right or don't show the film. It just highlights that NBT crews don't appear to know what they are doing, but are keen to pass it on.

 

Obviously it is true that these are not "working" boats as there would be no reason to cloth them up when they were empty.

 

I guess they were clothed up to keep the weather out when stood about for months at this time of year. The boats have also often got small stocks of bagged coal on board and this would doubtless get stolen if they were left with the holds open.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Hairy-Neil

[Tam & Di]

I did wonder if it was Badsey & Barnes, as I remember them in similar colours, and it looks to me that Barnes may well have a slight extension to it's cabin, (a kitchen area IIRC).

 

Thanks for correcting my spelling of Badsey!

 

Re butty cabins, we initially leased Bude from BW, but the first butty we owned was Bingley which had an extended cabin built by Roger Hatchard - a kitchen, as you say. Our sons were about 11 and 7 at the time, and having this extra 3' or so made an enormous improvement on living conditions without impinging too much on carrying capacity other than with very light cargoes. When we subsequently bought Bude from BW I had to rebuild the cabin on that and did the same thing. We regularly took on 52 tons of limejuice, and did get much the same a couple of times with coal at Gopsall on the Moira.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Tam & Di

[Speedwheel]

Yes it is Badsey and Barnes. As far as I know the motor always had a low cratch as it was (almost) always run empty. They were lived on for 6 years.

 

Yes Barnes had a cabin extension which contained a small kitchen. (we still have the range with the Chrome doors!)

 

I think they are working mob handed here hence why there is someone on the back of the butty (probably boiling the kettle!!) and the why the paddles have been dropped. There are a number of other boats travelling with them including Elizabeth (Jim McDonald), Fornax and others.

 

Not sure about the location but I will find out. Could well be Ivinghoe.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Satellite

[Speedwheel]

Here we go. A couple more for you.

 

Bottom of Mafas (thumblines in place)

 

 

Christmas Day

 

 

The butty cabin.

 

[Tam & Di]

Yes it is Badsey and Barnes.

 

Sadly when they were subsequently owned by David Vickers in the early 80s some lout tried to set fire to Badsey on the Slough cut by levering the pigeon box off and dropping lighted paper down onto the engine. Roger Alsop bought? Barnes and did a coal run from Sutton Stop to Brentford paired with Comet, which he had worked briefly with Willow Wren.

 

He wrote this up in his book Working Boats published by David & Charles 1988, which I looked into to refresh my memory. That brought several people back to mind who I've not thought of for many years.

[Speedwheel]

Not sure if Roger owned Comet and Barnes or just ran them. He still has a 'new' boat called Comet.

 

I've got a copy of his book somewhere. Couldn't lay my hands on it easily though. Saw him on Boxing day at Welford where a whole load of us met up for Xmas.

[Tam & Di]

Here we go. A couple more for you.

 

And very fine too. It was noticable that the NBT cannot apparently even afford brasso or a mop, which was also rather sad in the clips. I'd have been embarrassed to be seen on them, especially as there were many available pairs of hands.

[Speedwheel]

Indeed - Jill always scrubbed and painted everything to within a inch of its life.

 

I always wonder why the NBT boats are in such a state. President and Kildare are always the same. No one wanting to get out the scrubbing brush!