Is my pump normal?

[broadbeans]

Hello people!

 

This is the first time I have posted a question on the site, despite using it as a useful source of knowledge from you many wise sages. You chaps have helped a lot - whoever suggested cat litter in tights to clean bilges deserves extra special praise. I may have looked foolish but it was worth it.

 

I have been looking at various postings about water pumps as I'm not sure if mine is working properly. It is our first boat so we have learnt a lot as we have been going along - and if it hasn't been noticbly broke we haven't fixed it!

 

We have a shurflo pump. When you first turn on a tap the pressure is fine, however, after about ten seconds the pump comes on and we gradually lose pressure until it resorts to a dribble at which point we turn the tap off while we wait for the pump to stop.

For hot water we boil the kettle as we still haven't figured the boiler out. We also shower nearby as 1) they are available and reasonably nice and 2) we would get the water pressure or heat for that matter. At one point the pump would come on when a tap wasn't on - we think we cured this after fixing a crack the shower - after we did that the pump did come on less, however, now and then it will come on, though I am yet to locate any further leaks.

These days it feels like it is taking a lot longer to gain pressure. I don't know if it makes any difference but we do have an accumulator, but I'm not sure what it does or how I can use it to our advantage. We have filled up recently and have plenty of water.

 

Essentially what I want to know is what should I expect from a pump - should it provide a constant pressure, or is it normal for it to be a little pathetic?

 

Your help in this matter would be greatly appreciated!

 

Jean

[ditchcrawler]

Hello people!

 

This is the first time I have posted a question on the site, despite using it as a useful source of knowledge from you many wise sages. You chaps have helped a lot - whoever suggested cat litter in tights to clean bilges deserves extra special praise. I may have looked foolish but it was worth it.

 

I have been looking at various postings about water pumps as I'm not sure if mine is working properly. It is our first boat so we have learnt a lot as we have been going along - and if it hasn't been noticbly broke we haven't fixed it!

 

We have a shurflo pump. When you first turn on a tap the pressure is fine, however, after about ten seconds the pump comes on and we gradually lose pressure until it resorts to a dribble at which point we turn the tap off while we wait for the pump to stop.

For hot water we boil the kettle as we still haven't figured the boiler out. We also shower nearby as 1) they are available and reasonably nice and 2) we would get the water pressure or heat for that matter. At one point the pump would come on when a tap wasn't on - we think we cured this after fixing a crack the shower - after we did that the pump did come on less, however, now and then it will come on, though I am yet to locate any further leaks.

These days it feels like it is taking a lot longer to gain pressure. I don't know if it makes any difference but we do have an accumulator, but I'm not sure what it does or how I can use it to our advantage. We have filled up recently and have plenty of water.

 

Essentially what I want to know is what should I expect from a pump - should it provide a constant pressure, or is it normal for it to be a little pathetic?

 

Your help in this matter would be greatly appreciated!

 

Jean

I would suggest that your pump requires replacing/overhauling as it sounds like the internal valves are passing so its not pumping correctly.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Ours is a Johnson pump which has satrted to play up. We trun the tap on and wait.......and wait...........and wait for a good 10 seconds. It doesn't sound a long time but when you are waiting to fill the kettle, it seems like for ages. Sometimes when the pump finally kicks in, it starts then stops, then starts, then stops. And then on occasions the pump rattles like mad even when the tap is turned off. So we are going to bite the bullet and invest in a new pump as it sound very much like a problem with the diaphram unless anyone can suggest another reason.

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Might be worth checking that any inline filters between the pump and the tank are not blocked with 'crud'.

 

Leo

[chris w]

We have a shurflo pump. When you first turn on a tap the pressure is fine, however, after about ten seconds the pump comes on and we gradually lose pressure until it resorts to a dribble at which point we turn the tap off while we wait for the pump to stop.

 

Jean

 

Either the pump is malfunctioning or your pre-pump filter is blocked thus limiting the water flow.

 

The reason that you get about 10 seconds at normal pressure is that your accumulator will be filled (albeit slowly in your case) and will empty first as it is under pressure. The accumulator's main purpose is to prevent a pump's cycling ON & OFF when a tap is only turned partially on.

 

Chris

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Hi,

 

Might be worth checking that any inline filters between the pump and the tank are not blocked with 'crud'.

 

Leo

 

Thanks Leo.

 

As far as I can see there is no inline filter between the tank and the pump. However, there is a clear plastic cap on the end of the pump though which I can see water. Could this cap house some sort of filter? Strangely the pump has got better as the weather has got warmer!! I have no accumulator either, so the problem can only be with the pump. Any further advice would be welcome. Many thanks.

 

Alan

[LEO]

Thanks Leo.

 

As far as I can see there is no inline filter between the tank and the pump. However, there is a clear plastic cap on the end of the pump though which I can see water. Could this cap house some sort of filter? Strangely the pump has got better as the weather has got warmer!! I have no accumulator either, so the problem can only be with the pump. Any further advice would be welcome. Many thanks.

 

Alan

 

Hi Alan,

 

Having read your original post and from my experiences it does sounds as if the pump is struggling, unable to get a good supply of water and pehaps the blockage is at the joint between tank and pipework. I had to resort to blowing down the pipe to clear this. I was amazed at the 'crud' the filter stopped, especially after re-filling following a winter drain down. (Ally Tank/15mm pipe). Best of luck.

 

Leo.

[RobinJ]

As far as I can see there is no inline filter between the tank and the pump. However, there is a clear plastic cap on the end of the pump though which I can see water. Could this cap house some sort of filter?

Hi Alan

Is it a sort of dome shaped plastic thing with ribs maybe 1.5" diameter?

They normally screw onto the inlet side of the pump and have a bayonet type fitting that clamps the filter in the middle.

[Neil@CanalVoyagers]

Also, while you are at it, check the accumulator is at the correct pressure. The should be a valve on one end that you can place a pressure gauge on to check and top up with a foot/bike pump.

[alan_fincher]

Also, while you are at it, check the accumulator is at the correct pressure. The should be a valve on one end that you can place a pressure gauge on to check and top up with a foot/bike pump.

 

Seems unlikely!.......................................

 

I have no accumulator either, so the problem can only be with the pump.

[Shazza]

I have been having a problem with my pump that sounds similar to that of the OP's. My question is: could the severe frost/ice of a couple of weeks ago have caused such a problem? When the water in the canal froze over, I had no running water on board for a couple of days before it thawed completely. I thought at first that it was simply that the pipes had frozen and that water would start flowing again normally once the coldest of the cold had passed. However, the pump has NOT recovered since then. Not being technically-minded, I am a bit clueless and am considering getting either a new diaphram or a whole new pump ... but if neither part solves the problem then I'll be back to square one!

 

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!

[Smelly]

whoever suggested cat litter in tights to clean bilges deserves extra special praise. I may have looked foolish but it was worth it.

 

 

Works a treat don't it?

 

Shazza, can you hear your pump kicking in at all?

 

Just in case, I've a spare Jabsco pressure switch if anyone needs it.

[broadbeans]

Hello again

 

I'm totally confused whether people have been advising me or Alan. What I think I have been suggested to do is check between the pump and the pipes for crud in the filter. There is a spherical thing attached to the pump- is that the filter? Also i have read about bicyle pumps and acumlutors- do i need to check the pressure? and exactly how do you do this? There is a black unscrewable thing on top do I attach the pump nozzle to that? I have the old fashion pump which has the pressure gauge on it. Now when I looked at the acuumular - or the pump to that fact - there was no noticable thing on it to say what the pressure should be...

 

Thanks for the advica and apologies I am a girl. Plumbing is far too complicated, cat litter and tights is way more my thing.

 

Jean

Edited January 19, 2009 by broadbeans

[RobinJ]

I have been having a problem with my pump that sounds similar to that of the OP's. My question is: could the severe frost/ice of a couple of weeks ago have caused such a problem? When the water in the canal froze over, I had no running water on board for a couple of days before it thawed completely. I thought at first that it was simply that the pipes had frozen and that water would start flowing again normally once the coldest of the cold had passed. However, the pump has NOT recovered since then. Not being technically-minded, I am a bit clueless and am considering getting either a new diaphram or a whole new pump ... but if neither part solves the problem then I'll be back to square one!

If the tank is quite quite full and the system remains pressurised, it will be immune to small bouts of freezing temperatures. However the pumps etc. are usually located in places then tend to stay cold and if the temperature drops for a long period or is severe then the pump will freeze.

Depending upon its location and the way it is mounted will depended on what damage is done, it could simply be blown seals or joints (and if water is leaking it may well not be noticed unless the pump is pulsing), or if the housing has cracked it may have damaged the motor.

You will need to turn off the water and isolate the power and dive in and explore! Many newer pumps have push fit connections held in with a locking clip, otherwise its a spanner! It might also be worth checking fuses etc.

[LEO]

Hello again

 

I'm totally confused whether people have been advising me or Alan. What I think I have been suggested to do is check between the pump and the pipes for crud in the filter. There is a spherical thing attached to the pump- is that the filter? Also i have read about bicyle pumps and acumlutors- do i need to check the pressure? and exactly how do you do this? There is a black unscrewable thing on top do I attach the pump nozzle to that? I have the old fashion pump which has the pressure gauge on it. Now when I looked at the acuumular - or the pump to that fact - there was no noticable thing on it to say what the pressure should be...

 

Thanks for the advica and apologies I am a girl. Plumbing is far too complicated, cat litter and tights is way more my thing.

 

Jean

Sorry for any confusion. It could be that you have a filter - Jabso do an inline filter, but the one's I have encountered (I normally disgard the Jabsco one as it it too difficult to drain) have a small, clear bowl which enables one to see if there is a build up of crud, to drain it you normally turn off isolating valves either side of the filter, unscrew it, clean it and re-fit the bowl carefully. this should then restore a good supply/flow to the pump.

 

I cannot state the need to carefully re-tighten this clear bowl enough - they split easily and then deposit the contents of the water tank in the bilge. This is where my refernce to flooring and carpet tiles in another posting comes in useful - as from personal experience I found there was a lot of water to clear up if the clear bowl splits.

 

If there is no filter, it often helps to get the old 'tulips' round the inlet pipe to the pump and blow hard.

 

ATB

 

Leo

[chris w]

Also i have read about bicyle pumps and acumlutors- do i need to check the pressure? and exactly how do you do this? There is a black unscrewable thing on top do I attach the pump nozzle to that? I have the old fashion pump which has the pressure gauge on it. Now when I looked at the acuumular - or the pump to that fact - there was no noticable thing on it to say what the pressure should be...

 

Jean

To set the accumulator pressure:

 

1. Switch off the water pump.

 

2. Turn on a tap and let the water run out... (around 1/2 litre usually)

 

3. Leave the tap open

 

4. Unscrew the black cap on top of the accumulator and pump it up to 15psi (1 bar). It's not too critical 12 - 18 psi will be OK.

 

5. Replace black cap, close tap and switch pump back on

 

Done.

 

Chris

[broadbeans]

Thanks for the info and step by step instructions - I may give it a go tonight!!!

[Shazza]

Smelly,

 

The sequence of events seems to be:

 

• Tap is turned on
  
• Tap dribbles
  
• Dribble disappears
  
• Pump grumbles
  

 

Whereas, when working normally, the pump would kick in whilst the water was still flowing. Now it's as if it takes the pump a wee while to realise that it's being asked to do something.

 

 

RobinJ,

 

There is no sign of water leaking around the pump itself. If there's leakage from any of the pipes between the pump and the taps then it's someplace that I won't be able to get to easily! There is a plasticky tap in the vicinity of the tank and pump, which I will investigate in more detail!

[broadbeans]

Hello all!

 

Well I finally sorted the pump out. It was crud in the filter!

 

However, this leads me to another question: When we got the boat, we were told that the water tank needed sanding down and re-painting which we did. The filter was barely getting water through because of the backlog of what I can only asume was rust. Unfortunately we couldn't unscrew to get to the filter, so we ended up putting a screwdriver through the wire mesh and pulling it out. The filter (round clear thing) is in tact but was impossible to open due to many years unattended I expect. The water is now pumping like a dream, but not being filtered. We do though, have a water filter under the kitchen tap. I have been looking around on t'internet to find a replacement, but I can't find anything which looks the same. Has Shurflo changed the design? Also, is it absolutely necessarily to replace this? We've probably had around five full tanks of water go through the system, so would I be safe to assume that when had been lurking in the pipes has gone through the system and now come out?

 

Hope you guys can help me in this quandary!

 

[alan_fincher]

This is one of the standard filtering solutions on a Shurflo pump.....

 

http://kevint.easywebstore.co.uk/SHURFLO-W...TYPE_A1BYR.aspx

 

Or this one, (but no picture this time).....

 

http://kevint.easywebstore.co.uk/SHURFLO-W...-BSP_A1BYQ.aspx

 

Most chandleries have them, I think.......

[LEO]

Hi,

 

 

Pleased that you have found the problem, I would definately try and incorporate a filter with a detachable bowl, but having said that there does not seem to be one on my system............................

 

Leo

[broadbeans]

Hi Alan

 

Thanks for the info. What's the difference between them? Am I right in thinking the design of filters has changed? I have no idea how old ours is/was

 

Cheers

 

Jean

[alan_fincher]

Hi Alan

 

Thanks for the info. What's the difference between them? Am I right in thinking the design of filters has changed? I have no idea how old ours is/was

 

Cheers

 

Jean

I don't know too much about them, I'm afraid....

 

Ours looks like this, (sorry about image size!),

 

 

and screws directly to the Shurflo pump at one end.

 

I'm sure if you chose a well stocked chandlery you'll find what you need.

 

 

You need to be quite cautious of these things. Ours is of quite light plastic construction. If they break, unscrew, or become otherwise disconnected, you could find your entire water tank contents under your living space flooring, (or over it.... )

 

Some people refuse to use the Shurflo ones because of this risk.

[broadbeans]

following on from the last comment- does this mean that the fittings of water pump filters are standard? Would I be better off getting an alternative filter/strainer than the shurflo as it seems less well respected?

[Ray]

I'd suggest taking the filter part of the pump with you, if you can, when you go to the chandlery and see if they can give you a direct replacement. If you can't remove the filter from the pump, then take take the pump out (if you can) and take the whole lot to the chandlery.

 

A word or several of warning.

 

I believe the idea of the filter is partly to protect the pump diaphram from damage so I'd suggest that you ought to replace it.

 

It may be that the previous owner glued the filter in place, which is why you can't shift it.

 

Last autumn we were planning to hook up with some friends at Great Haywood as we made our way back from Kinver. We had a call on the Saturday morning asking us to pick up a water pump from MCs at Penkridge as we passed, because our friends, having been away for a few days, had returned to their boat late on Friday night and found the water pump not working.

 

We picked up the replacement pump as requested and later that day, having stopped off to see some other friends in between time, safely delivered the pump. I got roped into helping with the replacement whilst the respective women folk had a natter.

 

It was some time since I'd fitted the (new) pump to our boat at the start of our fitout but my friend seemed to know what he was doing. We soon had the old pump out - there were some design differences - and were swapping the fittings to connect the new pump into the plumbing.

 

My friend wrapped the various joints with PTFE tape, added some kind of gunk and got me to tighten up the filter with his spanner whilst he held the pump. Mindful of the light plastic construction and only using the most gentle of pressure on the spanner, the filter broke at the coupling.

 

Blast, one dead (old) pump and one (new) pump that we couldn't now connect to the system and, at 6pm on a Saturday, no chance of getting a new one anywhere.

 

Luckily, the design changes hadn't been that great, so we were able to rob working parts off the two pumps to make one good one - the new pump now has the old impellers and filter.

 

Then my friend read the instructions. Don't use spanners or any form of jointing material. Simply hand tighten all the joints between the various parts of the pump. In that way not only shouldn't they break, (I presume) they should also be easier to take apart when something goes wrong.

 

Whilst you have the pump off, if you haven't already got a shut off valve outside the tank, fit one between tank and pump, so that you can remove the pump in future without having to drain the system down.

 

Hope that helps.