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Tim Lewis

TWT Planning a bonfire!

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Its saddening that there are the same old posters churning out the same old points but without even knowing what is actually happening. The box boat has been on the yard as an exhibit that has been being worked on for some what ….. 3years +.

 

I’ve worked at the museum, paid and volunteer time, for the last 15 or more years and the critics that have posted again here have been doing it for years and their opinions do not reflect the realities of what has been happening at the museum for the last 5-6 years or more.

 

Tiggers – I have made the same offer to arrange to show folk what is actually going on……..but no takers!

 

I have known some of the boats now at the museum for 40 years and helped as a child to keep them afloat before they went to the museum, going back to when the museum location was proposed as being on the Runcorn arm, before E’port was considered. They are the ONLY remainders of their type, as such the museum has had an absolute 100% success in maintaining these craft in the same state as they were when they acquired them.

 

The fact that there remains an opportunity for armchair wingers to fluff their own feathers by pontificating incorrectly about what others should do is only possible because of what the museum has achieved. – I guess the same moaners will continue to moan and the same doers will continue to do and sadly ever it shall be thus!

 

Congratulations to all at the museum that put in their paid and unpaid time, I for one am very grateful and appreciative.

 

As a message to those reading that haven’t posted – Don’t be put off by much of the misinformation on this (and other similar threads) – take a trip to the museum and have a look yourself, chat to those that actually know. – I don’t believe that you will be disappointed!

Edited by Mike C

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Its saddening that there are the same old posters churning out the same old points but without even knowing what is actually happening. The box boat has been on the yard as an exhibit that has been being worked on for some what ….. 3years +.

 

I’ve worked at the museum, paid and volunteer time, for the last 15 or more years and the critics that have posted again here have been doing it for years and their opinions do not reflect the realities of what has been happening at the museum for the last 5-6 years or more.

Perhaps you haven't read the thread to the end then. rolleyes.gif

 

Lack of information and evidence of action leads to misinformation.

 

I have supported the museum financially for the past few years (based on promises that change was afoot) and have received no updates on any sort of progress which lead me to assume that there was no change and, the rot was continuing.

 

Tigger provided evidence to the contrary and I, and others, accepted this and were quick to acknowledge that we were wrong.

 

You appear to have waded in long after the row was settled so perhaps you too could acknowledge your error and accept that your criticism is no longer appropriate either..

Edited by carlt

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Its saddening that there are the same old posters churning out the same old points but without even knowing what is actually happening. The box boat has been on the yard as an exhibit that has been being worked on for some what ….. 3years +.

 

I’ve worked at the museum, paid and volunteer time, for the last 15 or more years and the critics that have posted again here have been doing it for years and their opinions do not reflect the realities of what has been happening at the museum for the last 5-6 years or more.

 

Tiggers – I have made the same offer to arrange to show folk what is actually going on……..but no takers!

 

I have known some of the boats now at the museum for 40 years and helped as a child to keep them afloat before they went to the museum, going back to when the museum location was proposed as being on the Runcorn arm, before E’port was considered. They are the ONLY remainders of their type, as such the museum has had an absolute 100% success in maintaining these craft in the same state as they were when they acquired them.

 

The fact that there remains an opportunity for armchair wingers to fluff their own feathers by pontificating incorrectly about what others should do is only possible because of what the museum has achieved. – I guess the same moaners will continue to moan and the same doers will continue to do and sadly ever it shall be thus!

 

Congratulations to all at the museum that put in their paid and unpaid time, I for one am very grateful and appreciative.

 

As a message to those reading that haven’t posted – Don’t be put off by much of the misinformation on this (and other similar threads) – take a trip to the museum and have a look yourself, chat to those that actually know. – I don’t believe that you will be disappointed!

 

I was happy with the explanations given by Tiggers and felt that what was said was a fair response, however your post reads like a rebuttal that the museum has done anything wrong when everyone else knows it has.

Chiltern, Fomalhaut please inform everyone how the armchair wingers(sic) are incorrect in their 'pontifications' regarding these two boats, or how about the archives losing a lot of the stuff they were entrusted with including much of what Laurence posted about?

Its all well and good you defending the work being done now with regard to the box boat, but the points regarding those boats which the museum have allowed to deteriorate are well made and founded.

You say the museum has a 100% success rate in preserving the craft as they were received, those boats above would deny that statement along with Aries, Merope, and a number of the wide boats which are deteriorating and therefore making your statement obviously mistaken.

If you are defending the work done in the past few years then it is understandable; if you are trying, as it seems, to defend the work at the museum over the past 15-20-25 years then please take time to read through the whole thread and see the points put forward by people with far more knowledge than me and consider again how well the museum has done.

I am off to smooth my feathers after this last pontification of mine, after all its not mine to question what they do, they should be allowed to carry on regardless and never ever called to justify decisions made. frusty.gif

 

edited to add. Carl beat me to it.

Edited by AMModels

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My point is clear. Very many posts in this threat are very willing to deliver vociferous criticism as if they are based on facts when they are based on misinformation. That stands.

 

Issues to do with Chilton, and others are complex and not simple as comments in this threat suggests, as those who take the time to become better informed know. I guess that like many, I'm very glad that I am not continually judged only by the occasions where I have tried and failed or by the things that I got wrong even when my mistakes were avoidable.

 

I am not defending every decision or action that has occurred at the museum, however when I look at what it has achieved and what it continues to do, overall its done a good to laudable job with what it has had to work with, most importantly what is there now is still there and can be taken forward.

 

I expect my wish list is much the same as those of the moaners – difference being my attempt to see the wish list delivered is by constructive positive input on several levels, others seem to believe that voicing ill-founded negative wisdom and posts will do the same job – I disagree.

 

Despite what is said to the contra there is a continuation within this thread of stating what should happen, but without any realistic proposals as to how. ‘Moaners moaning’ without any indication that they intend to become ‘doers doing’ to realise the potential of the improvements that are achievable at the museum.

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Despite what is said to the contra there is a continuation within this thread of stating what should happen, but without any realistic proposals as to how. ‘Moaners moaning’ without any indication that they intend to become ‘doers doing’ to realise the potential of the improvements that are achievable at the museum.

and it is attitudes like this that demonstrate far more intransigence than those "moaners" who have identified that the museum has a communications problem and has failed to reassure those of us who are genuinely concerned about the future of these historic boats.

 

Tiggers allayed those concerns but your attitude has reinforced my opinion that the museum couldn't give a stuff about the concerns of enthusiasts, dismissing us as "moaners" even when we have acknowledged that progress has been made regarding the preservation of the collection but, evidently, it still has miles to go with its communication skills.

 

Shame as I was inclined to renew my cancelled direct debit, following Tigger's intervention but I won't be bothering, now you've chipped in.

 

As to "doers doing" I really cannot see how I can contribute in any other way than financially, given the distance between me and the museum however I do my bit in other ways, for other boats.

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No, my point is not about them is about you - The whole thread would have been very diferent if you had just looked at the info available .....even just a little bit!

 

'Them' - are not putting up posts based on misinformation when the information is available to those that look.

 

Quite a few of 'Them' are there in the photos, and those that aren’t are there just getting on with doing the doing week in, week out.

 

Future 'Thems' will only be put off with inaccurate negativity on forums such as some of the posts of yours and others.

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No, my point is not about them is about you - The whole thread would have been very diferent if you had just looked at the info available .....even just a little bit!

 

'Them' - are not putting up posts based on misinformation when the information is available to those that look.

 

Quite a few of 'Them' are there in the photos, and those that aren’t are there just getting on with doing the doing week in, week out.

 

Future 'Thems' will only be put off with inaccurate negativity on forums such as some of the posts of yours and others.

If a charity wants regular support, either practical or financial then it should keep those supporters informed and not expect them to go looking.

 

Despite being a regular contributor to the museum I received no updates on the state of the collection, just a magazine I didn't need and a free pass I did not take up, preferring to pay my entrance fee.

 

I wasn't posting based on misinformation, I was posting based on historical failings and a lack of effort on the museum's part to correct impressions formed due to those failings.

 

My posts are not negative, yours are, because if you dismiss potential supporters as "moaners" then you will lose support, just as you have lost mine.

 

You can attempt to belittle me and others because actively volunteering for the museum is geographically impossible but that is hardly going to gain support now is it?

 

.

  • Greenie 2

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My point is clear. Very many posts in this threat are very willing to deliver vociferous criticism as if they are based on facts when they are based on misinformation. That stands.

 

Issues to do with Chilton, and others are complex and not simple as comments in this threat suggests, as those who take the time to become better informed know. I guess that like many, I'm very glad that I am not continually judged only by the occasions where I have tried and failed or by the things that I got wrong even when my mistakes were avoidable.

 

I am not defending every decision or action that has occurred at the museum, however when I look at what it has achieved and what it continues to do, overall its done a good to laudable job with what it has had to work with, most importantly what is there now is still there and can be taken forward.

 

I expect my wish list is much the same as those of the moaners – difference being my attempt to see the wish list delivered is by constructive positive input on several levels, others seem to believe that voicing ill-founded negative wisdom and posts will do the same job – I disagree.

 

Despite what is said to the contra there is a continuation within this thread of stating what should happen, but without any realistic proposals as to how. ‘Moaners moaning’ without any indication that they intend to become ‘doers doing’ to realise the potential of the improvements that are achievable at the museum.

 

Ah well if nothing else your attitude towards those interested in the boats has ensured a rift that will take some healing and will only continue the opinion that those within the museum treat those without with contempt and feel they are beyond criticism.

And if we are into petty name calling and childish behaviour you will find the name is CHILTERN as in the hills not the racing driving brothers

  • Greenie 2

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I am sorry if I have mislead you into thinking that I am a part of the museum staff by my wording of ‘I’ve worked at the museum, paid and volunteer time….’ It could have been much clearer if I had written ‘I do work for the museum, paid and volunteer ……….’ more a contractor if you like. – apologies to all if this was unclear as I can see how it could easily be so. Please don’t beat up the museum because I’m disagreeing with you.

 

‘CHILTERN’ – agreed absolutly. I am genuinely very dyslexic and so have to type into MS/Word for the specialist spell checker that I have, then cut and paste, and this has not been picked up by it…or me.

 

If you believe that you should be better served with information that is delivered directly to you individually so that that you don’t need to click onto the BMS website the then what have you done to make that happen? If you have raised this with BMS directly and constructively and got no response then fair enough…..but your unlikely to achieve much on that score on here!

 

‘actively volunteering for the museum is geographically impossible’ – I do not believe that this is so wherever you are. Surly better to look at what you can do and not at what you cant. – a great start would be by spending a little time seeking out what is actually going on and reporting it. The BMS web site was only ever a couple of clicks away. – Its not the full story but it would have been enough.

 

Please try not to see me believing that your approach is wrong as belittling you and clearly, as this thread shows, not all ‘potential supporters’ are ‘moaners’.

 

I don’t believe that anyone is beyond criticism – but do your homework and be accurate!

 

 

 

(Edited to correct misspelling of dyslexic - the irony! )

Edited by Mike C

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‘actively volunteering for the museum is geographically impossible’ – I do not believe that this is so wherever you are. Surly better to look at what you can do and not at what you cant. – a great start would be by spending a little time seeking out what is actually going on and reporting it. The BMS web site was only ever a couple of clicks away. – Its not the full story but it would have been enough.

You have no idea of my personal circumstances but I assure you that I have no intention of offering support, either financial or practical, to an organisation that expects me to go looking for updates rather than simply keeping me informed, even if I could, when other causes recognise the value of emailing me on a regular basis.

 

By asking questions I am doing my homework and raising an important issue also.

 

Unfortunately you have failed to acknowledge this, choosing not to counter criticism with valid argument, like Tiggers has done, but to dismiss those who criticise as "moaners".

 

As I said it is a shame you choose to denigrate rather than engage in discussion and, despite you claiming not to be trying to belittle me your final sentence is, once again, condescending.

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I am sorry if I have mislead you into thinking that I am a part of the museum staff by my wording of ‘I’ve worked at the museum, paid and volunteer time….’ It could have been much clearer if I had written ‘I do work for the museum, paid and volunteer ……….’ more a contractor if you like. – apologies to all if this was unclear as I can see how it could easily be so. Please don’t beat up the museum because I’m disagreeing with you.

 

‘CHILTERN’ – agreed absolutly. I am genuinely very dyslexic and so have to type into MS/Word for the specialist spell checker that I have, then cut and paste, and this has not been picked up by it…or me.

 

If you believe that you should be better served with information that is delivered directly to you individually so that that you don’t need to click onto the BMS website the then what have you done to make that happen? If you have raised this with BMS directly and constructively and got no response then fair enough…..but your unlikely to achieve much on that score on here!

 

‘actively volunteering for the museum is geographically impossible’ – I do not believe that this is so wherever you are. Surly better to look at what you can do and not at what you cant. – a great start would be by spending a little time seeking out what is actually going on and reporting it. The BMS web site was only ever a couple of clicks away. – Its not the full story but it would have been enough.

 

Please try not to see me believing that your approach is wrong as belittling you and clearly, as this thread shows, not all ‘potential supporters’ are ‘moaners’.

 

I don’t believe that anyone is beyond criticism – but do your homework and be accurate!

 

 

 

(Edited to correct misspelling of dyslexic - the irony! )

 

Your posts have been made from the position of someone 'within' the museum in whatever capacity and however you meant them to be read, you mentioned frequently your work in the museum and as such you represent yourself as part of the museum.

I apologise for picking you up on your spelling but not on your childish point scoring.

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Glad not all our supporters are that easily deterred, especially as Mike has already explained he is not a museum employee!

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especially as Mike has already explained he is not a museum employee!

Perhaps they should tell him to shut up then because he hasn't done them any favours.

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chiltern2.jpg

chiltern1.jpg

 

Images sent to me by someone who is easily as unimpressed/deterred as I am.

As I have said before, the current staff, in particular Dave Linney, think that this was an appalling decision.

 

And Carl, I don't tell people to shut up, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's a little rude!

chiltern2.jpg

chiltern1.jpg

 

Images sent to me by someone who is easily as unimpressed/deterred as I am.

As I have said before, the current staff, in particular Dave Linney, think that this was an appalling decision.

 

And Carl, I don't tell people to shut up, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's a little rude!

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And Carl, I don't tell people to shut up, everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's a little rude!

I wasn't suggesting that you did anything of the sort but if I was a museum fundraiser I would be a little perturbed to see somebody treating potential supporters in such a dismissive and derogatory manner and would perhaps intervene, asking him to keep his opinions to himself before he puts even more folk off.

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Tiggers, as I have said before your explanation and reasoned responses were great and something that was needed from the museum itself, Mike came on and basically behaved like a petulent child refusing to accept that there was anything wrong with the way things have been at the museum for a long time. I accept that the team in place felt that what happened to Chiltern was wrong but my posting of the images above were more for Mike as an attempt to make him see that mistakes were made and all the denying would do no good.

  • Greenie 1

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At no time have I intended to suggest that the museum has not made any mistakes over the years, what I was doing was highlighting that not everything they have done has been bad.

 

I think the cause of my exasperation is fairly clear, if that has landed with you as petulance then that’s unfortunate. Either way the main issue is that the Museum of today is different to the museum of the past and that information has been available to those who have looked – either directly or from afar.

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I think the cause of my exasperation is fairly clear, if that has landed with you as petulance then that’s unfortunate.

I don't think it is clear at all.

 

The lack of communication from the museum, to its supporters, is recent and your accusation that people who are concerned are just moaners is petulance in the extreme.

 

Just because people do not provide practical help does not mean they have no right to criticise the lack of communication and the apparent lack of progress.

 

I may not have time to travel to the museum to swing an adze but I'm sure they welcomed the financial support and miss it now it's gone.

 

You may also say that it is our responsibility to find the information but you are wrong.

 

If a charity wants to raise funds then communication is all important and to petulantly say "It's there if you look, why should we email you progress reports just because you send us money?" then the money will not come flooding in.

 

You have done the museum a disservice by your attitude to its potential supporters, whether you are an official spokesperson or not.

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I did actually say that they now send out regular newsletters to all contributors, they update the Facebook page daily, are going the website an overhaul, setting up twitter accounts and I am about to start a blog about work in the boatyard, I think that is a fairly good attempt at communication and a sign that things are changing

  • Greenie 1

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I did actually say that they now send out regular newsletters to all contributors, they update the Facebook page daily, are going the website an overhaul, setting up twitter accounts and I am about to start a blog about work in the boatyard, I think that is a fairly good attempt at communication and a sign that things are changing

 

Wont do bugger all to rectify the massive errors they have made and the heritage that they have lost. It wont educate those in charge either as they are only there for the money. "Hand picked" staff who have little real interest in what YOU are trying to acheive.

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