Diesel pipes

[MoominPapa]

The fuel pipework to my engine currently goes like this:

 

Stop tap on day tank.

8mm OD copper pipe.

Fuel filter (on bulkhead below day tank)

8mm OD copper pipe

Reducing compression union

Flexible pipe with 6.6mm OD tails

Reducing compression union

10mm copper pipe

soldered joint to banjo

3/8" BSP banjo bolt.

 

The soldered joint will give the BSS inspector kittens, as will the fact that he entire run from the output of fuel filter to the banjo (more than a metre) is unsupported. Therefore I need to do some fettling.

 

Working backwards, I can get a fitting which takes me from 3/8" BSP banjo to a compression fitting, either 10mm, 12mm, 3/8" or 1/2" from here. Since the other end of the string is metric (the 8mm union on the fuel filter) it seems to be sensible to get a flexible hose with 10mm tails. That way I can run 8mm copper from the fuel filter to just before the engine bearer, then couple that with a 8mm to 10mm reducing coupler to the flexible hose which runs all the way to the banjo.

 

However, I can't find any ISO 7840 hose assemblies online with 10mm tails, everyone seems to sell them in imperial sizes only.

 

So, does anyone know a source for metric flexible hoses, or alternatively a way of coupling a 3/8" or 1/2" hose tail to the 8mm union on a CAV fuel filter?

 

MP.

[smileypete]

I'd google for a copy of the Wade catalogue:

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q...catalogue"

 

If the fitting you need is in there, I'd then google on the Wade part no. to see who sells it.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited November 23, 2008 by smileypete

[PaddingtonBear]

Mic. it all up and get your uncle to make some adapters? anyway it is surely very embarassing to have metric anywhere near a proper engine - it is Whitworth or nothing!!! go to the norty step at once or perhaps PJ was right?

Edited November 24, 2008 by PaddingtonBear

[MoominPapa]

..... anyway it is surely very embarassing to have metric anywhere near a proper engine - it is Whitworth or nothing!!!

Ah, but us owners of "pretend" proper engines have another guilty secret - FRs have unified threads, not Whitworth. Oh, shame!

 

go to the norty step at once or perhaps PJ was right?

On my way....

 

 

Seriously, something which just occurred to me is that what I was measuring as 8mm OD may well be 5/16.

 

srk@ermintrude:~$ units

2445 units, 71 prefixes, 33 nonlinear units

 

You have: (5/16)inch

You want: mm

* 7.9375

 

 

I was using a vernier caliper to measure, and that's within the accuracy I can manage.

 

Is a CAV fuel filter likely to have 5/16 unions, or if they're 8mm, will they take 5/16 pipe?

[RLWP]

I was using a vernier caliper to measure,

 

That should be very near the right measurement..

 

Richard

 

Coat please..

[PaddingtonBear]

Lines 4/5 ?????????? or is this getting really serious? Surely what you need is a thread gauge. I have a unused CAV filter with cartridge onboard which was fitted to my engine by RN (oh the shame) so it is possible that it has been machined/adapted to suit a proper engine. Can't get it until mini banter 5-7/12 although I occurs to me that John might be of use as he has a machine shop on site and despite his somewhat diffident nature, he seems quite cute in that direction if somewhat agricultural in implementation.

[Bones]

where does one get whitworth bolts from?

[MoominPapa]

where does one get whitworth bolts from?

The same place one gets everything else - Ebay.

 

Ebay clicky

 

MP.

[Bones]

The same place one gets everything else - Ebay.

 

Ebay clicky

 

MP.

 

genius - thanks!

[Kraken]

where does one get whitworth bolts from?

 

 

www.ahc-camberley.co.uk/

 

www.margnor.co.uk/

 

Not close to you but propbably do mail order.

[MoominPapa]

Lines 4/5 ?????????? or is this getting really serious?

You mean the stuff which is 6.6mm OD? I have no idea what that is - I can't even make it fit imperial pipe sizes. Fortunately I plan to throw that stuff away, so I can get away without understanding it.

 

Surely what you need is a thread gauge.

What I need is a proper education in workshop principle and practice - instead I wasted my youth on a PhD in computer science!

 

I have a unused CAV filter with cartridge onboard which was fitted to my engine by RN (oh the shame) so it is possible that it has been machined/adapted to suit a

proper engine. Can't get it until mini banter 5-7/12.

Thanks for the offer, it would be interesting to compare it to what I have now.

 

although I occurs to me that John might be of use as he has a machine shop on site and despite his somewhat diffident nature, he seems quite cute in that direction if somewhat agricultural in implementation.

Oi! - I've got pat-pending on "agricultural engineering" no competition allowed!

 

 

MP.

[OptedOut]

One way around the hose problem is to make up your own, the hose is available as are hosetail fittings and "Ear" crimp clips.

 

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

[MoominPapa]

One way around the hose problem is to make up your own, the hose is available as are hosetail fittings and "Ear" crimp clips.

 

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

Are hoses done like this OK with the BSS?

 

MP.

[OptedOut]

Are hoses done like this OK with the BSS?

 

MP.

 

Would appear so, the surveyor even conceded that the type of crimp would even be acceptable on to a copper pipe as long as there was a crimped "Olive" to stop the hose slipping off.

[PaddingtonBear]

It seems to me MP that you have been neglecting to study the book that I gave you, no chips for you on the 6th. and what pray is srk@ermintrude etc?

[MoominPapa]

It seems to me MP that you have been neglecting to study the book that I gave you, no chips for you on the 6th. and what pray is srk@ermintrude etc?

Guilty as charged, I admit to a blatant attempt to "get the forum to do my homework".

 

The srk@ermintrude stuff is output from the wonderful program "units" which I ran on my laptop (which is called ermintrude)

Units is amazing, it knows conversion factors between a vast number of common and obscure units. You want to know what 10 miles per hour is in furlongs per fortnight? No problem.

 

You have: 10mph

You want: furlongs/fortnight

* 26880

 

 

MP.

[Timleech]

The fuel pipework to my engine currently goes like this:

 

Stop tap on day tank.

8mm OD copper pipe.

Fuel filter (on bulkhead below day tank)

8mm OD copper pipe

Reducing compression union

Flexible pipe with 6.6mm OD tails

Reducing compression union

10mm copper pipe

soldered joint to banjo

3/8" BSP banjo bolt.

 

The soldered joint will give the BSS inspector kittens, as will the fact that he entire run from the output of fuel filter to the banjo (more than a metre) is unsupported. Therefore I need to do some fettling.

 

Working backwards, I can get a fitting which takes me from 3/8" BSP banjo to a compression fitting, either 10mm, 12mm, 3/8" or 1/2" from here. Since the other end of the string is metric (the 8mm union on the fuel filter) it seems to be sensible to get a flexible hose with 10mm tails. That way I can run 8mm copper from the fuel filter to just before the engine bearer, then couple that with a 8mm to 10mm reducing coupler to the flexible hose which runs all the way to the banjo.

 

However, I can't find any ISO 7840 hose assemblies online with 10mm tails, everyone seems to sell them in imperial sizes only.

 

So, does anyone know a source for metric flexible hoses, or alternatively a way of coupling a 3/8" or 1/2" hose tail to the 8mm union on a CAV fuel filter?

 

MP.

 

So far as I know the CAV-type fuel filter comes in both Imperial and Metric flavours.

Would it help to call your 8mm stuff 5/16"? it really won't know the difference most of the time.

Your 6.6mm hose barbs (if that's what you mean by 'tails'?) will be for 1/4" bore hose. Or 6mm. or both.

 

Edited to add, one of these

 

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=1...d-Brazing-Torch

 

with some MAPP gas and silver solder will enable you to do some proper joints, silver soldering is a form of brazing and so OK, and surprisingly easy to do.

 

Tim

Edited November 24, 2008 by Timleech

[OptedOut]

If you can get a few bits of firebrick you will manage the silver soldering with a good gas blowlamp, easier still with two paraffin lamps.

You need to heat to about medium orange temparature.

[MoominPapa]

So far as I know the CAV-type fuel filter comes in both Imperial and Metric flavours.

Would it help to call your 8mm stuff 5/16"? it really won't know the difference most of the time.

 

I think that might be the key to the whole thing. I'll try and measure the pipe more accurately and/or look at the part number on the CAV filter when I'm next on the boat, if that's 5/16 the whole thing falls out quite easily. If 5/16 and 8mm are interchangeable in compression fittings, it's perfect.

 

Your 6.6mm hose barbs (if that's what you mean by 'tails'?) will be for 1/4" bore hose. Or 6mm. or both.

Yes, that's what I mean. Makes sense too.

 

One thing that has occurred to me is the possibility that I might not actually need a flexible pipe. The engine is mounted on hardwood bearers, so there no significant movement to cope with (but there is a lot of vibration). If I recall correctly PaddingtonBear, of this parish, has a copper fuel feed direct from the daytank to the injection pump on his National, but that's about a foot, and well out of the way, The same arrangement on my engine would be much longer and vulnerable to damage, it would be much better to clip the pipe onto the top of the hardwood bearer and then to the top of the steel beam that's part of the hull structure, that would only give a couple of inches of pipe between clips to absorb movement or vibration.

Edited to add, one of these

 

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=1...d-Brazing-Torch

 

with some MAPP gas and silver solder will enable you to do some proper joints, silver soldering is a form of brazing and so OK, and surprisingly easy to do.

 

More food for thought, thanks.

 

MP.

[Trilby Tim]

QUOTE (MoominPapa @ Nov 24 2008, 02:58 PM) *

Are hoses done like this OK with the BSS?

 

MP.

 

 

Would appear so, the surveyor even conceded that the type of crimp would even be acceptable on to a copper pipe as long as there was a crimped "Olive" to stop the hose slipping off.

 

I keep hearing that flexible hoses must be pre-made assemblies with swaged ends and a compression fitting, but what's wrong with hose clamps onto flared pipe ends? The BSS seems to think it's acceptable:

Quote from BSS guide chapter 2:

Flexible fuel hose connections must either be pre-made end fittings on

hose assemblies, or hose clips/clamps onto hose nozzles or formed

pipe-ends.

If anything, a flexi clamped onto a formed pipe end (be it a double ear clamp or a screw clamp) should be better than a swaged/compression fitting type since there is only one junction for potential leaks, not two. And I reckon if you tensile tested a clamped hose to failure, the hose would tear before it pulled off.