Bilge access under tiled floor...

[paulcatchpole]

Hi all,

 

Right, I've finally kickstarted the plan to rip out and replace the bathroom and bedroom on my 40ft '78 GRP-topped NB.

 

Been planning this for ages, and I've a week off work, with my best mate on hand, to do this. I've most of the bits and bobs aligned and I've just picked up the tiles for floor and walls.

 

My last conundrum is how to access the floor under the bathroom, where I'm planning on situating a sump-box for the bath and basin to drain into.

 

I've been thinking about the sort of metal trays you can get for block paving, where you can pave inside the tray and still have the thing lift out. Other suggestions have been something similar from a swimming pool shop or wet room supplier, but I've drawn a bit of a blank.

 

My only other suggestion is to leave one tile in place, with the access hole underneath it, bedded on something other than tile adhesive, and 'grouted' with silicone (or neoprene strips) so it can be levered out if needed.

 

Any ideas?

 

Also, I've been reading and thinking about the sump boxes, and I've noted that one or two manufactures suggest that they need "extra sealing and ventilation" (!) of the lid if used with a bath - presumably, due to the head of water in the bath when you pull the plug. Does anyone use one in this way, and is it actually a problem?

 

Cheers,

 

PC

[tosher]

Hi all,

 

Right, I've finally kickstarted the plan to rip out and replace the bathroom and bedroom on my 40ft '78 GRP-topped NB.

 

Been planning this for ages, and I've a week off work, with my best mate on hand, to do this. I've most of the bits and bobs aligned and I've just picked up the tiles for floor and walls.

 

My last conundrum is how to access the floor under the bathroom, where I'm planning on situating a sump-box for the bath and basin to drain into.

 

I've been thinking about the sort of metal trays you can get for block paving, where you can pave inside the tray and still have the thing lift out. Other suggestions have been something similar from a swimming pool shop or wet room supplier, but I've drawn a bit of a blank.

 

My only other suggestion is to leave one tile in place, with the access hole underneath it, bedded on something other than tile adhesive, and 'grouted' with silicone (or neoprene strips) so it can be levered out if needed.

 

Any ideas?

 

Also, I've been reading and thinking about the sump boxes, and I've noted that one or two manufactures suggest that they need "extra sealing and ventilation" (!) of the lid if used with a bath - presumably, due to the head of water in the bath when you pull the plug. Does anyone use one in this way, and is it actually a problem?

 

Cheers,

 

PC

 

Hi Paul, I will watch with interest the replies to your post as I too would like to tile the bathroom floor and my bath drain sump box is situated underneath it. With regard to the sump box it works very well with no leaks at all, there is a vent hole in the side of the box that I piped up the inside of the airing cupboard to a level above the top of the bath. I did this because I once emptied the bath & forgot to swith on the drain pump which resulted in the bath contents going into the bilge through the vent. I also have to clean the suction strainer in the sump box quite regularly (every couple of weeks) which tends to block with hair etc so access under the floor is vital. Hope that helps.

[denboy]

by sump tray do you mean the ones with the pump fitted in it if so why not mount it remotely under the bed or in a cupboard under the sink

[Yoda]

I think the easiest way is to locate the sump outside the tiled area.

[paulcatchpole]

Hi Paul, I will watch with interest the replies to your post as I too would like to tile the bathroom floor and my bath drain sump box is situated underneath it. With regard to the sump box it works very well with no leaks at all, there is a vent hole in the side of the box that I piped up the inside of the airing cupboard to a level above the top of the bath. I did this because I once emptied the bath & forgot to swith on the drain pump which resulted in the bath contents going into the bilge through the vent. I also have to clean the suction strainer in the sump box quite regularly (every couple of weeks) which tends to block with hair etc so access under the floor is vital. Hope that helps.

 

Cheers for that info - that's good news. Does yours have a float switch which turns it on automatically? Having cleaned my existing shower pump for the first time after buying the boat, recently, I can imagine why they need cleaning out now and again. I see what you mean about the vent pipe - makes sense!

 

by sump tray do you mean the ones with the pump fitted in it if so why not mount it remotely under the bed or in a cupboard under the sink

 

Yes, you see, I knew someone would come up with an obvious idea which I'd overlooked. I was working on the basis that being under the floor to achieve the necessary gravity drop, it'd have to be in the bathroom, but of course, that's not the case. From the bathroom, I could mount it under the floor under the bed - next to an existing above-floor box which contains the water pump and existing shower pump.

 

Good plan - thanks!

 

Paul

[tosher]

Cheers for that info - that's good news. Does yours have a float switch which turns it on automatically? Having cleaned my existing shower pump for the first time after buying the boat, recently, I can imagine why they need cleaning out now and again. I see what you mean about the vent pipe - makes sense!

 

 

Yes, it is completely self contained and has 2 drain inlets, one vent, the pump/float switch/strainer and discharge pipe. It is made by "Attwood". Hope more suggestions come in as I don't have the option to resite it. Cheers.

[denboy]

this type me thinks

http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/ATTWOOD-...-12V_A1UW9.aspx

personal view on these they are prone to over flowing if the impeller gets hair wrapped up in them causing it to pump slower than it should ,float switch is not the best and prone to breaking(its just a ballbearing that rolls back and forth hitting a micro switch i had one that managed to flood the boat 3 times in less than a year so i do not rate them at all ,,A dedicated shower pump like the whale gulper is a much more reliable pump

Edited November 15, 2008 by denboy

[paulcatchpole]

this type me thinks

http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/ATTWOOD-...-12V_A1UW9.aspx

personal view on these they are prone to over flowing if the impeller gets hair wrapped up in them causing it to pump slower than it should ,float switch is not the best and prone to breaking(its just a ballbearing that rolls back and forth hitting a micro switch i had one that managed to flood the boat 3 times in less than a year so i do not rate them at all ,,A dedicated shower pump like the whale gulper is a much more reliable pump

 

Yup, that's the idea, although I'm being tempted by the one from Limekiln, made by ITT badged Rule, for £62.

 

I can see what you mean about the float switches and their reliability. Why would the thing actually leak though, if the vent pipe and lid are well sealed, and the vent is routed by pipe to be higher than the inputs? I would have thought, if it stopped pumping, it would just back-up up the input pipes?

 

I've a [i think, Sureflo] standard shower pump at the moment, which no longer self-primes, so I have to take a plunger into the shower with me, and then hang around waiting for it to empty, to remember to switch it off. That's why I fancied something more automatic, and dare I say it, house-like. But fair cop, it may turn out to be a pain. I don't have a basin at the moment, and I'm adding one, so I thought it would simplify installation if I just routed that into the sump box.

 

PC

[denboy]

Just super sized the image and they have modified it since i had one doh maybe the lid sealing is better now they used to be screwed down ,, what about a repair kit for the shurflo you have

[tosher]

this type me thinks

http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/ATTWOOD-...-12V_A1UW9.aspx

personal view on these they are prone to over flowing if the impeller gets hair wrapped up in them causing it to pump slower than it should ,float switch is not the best and prone to breaking(its just a ballbearing that rolls back and forth hitting a micro switch i had one that managed to flood the boat 3 times in less than a year so i do not rate them at all ,,A dedicated shower pump like the whale gulper is a much more reliable pump

 

Yes that's the one. It's getting on for 2 years old now and to be honest it's never given a minutes bother. The strainer prevents hair etc getting to the pump and If it fills completely it does not leak at all but because the pump removes water faster than it drains in from the bath/shower this seldom happens.

[paulcatchpole]

Just super sized the image and they have modified it since i had one doh maybe the lid sealing is better now they used to be screwed down ,, what about a repair kit for the shurflo you have

 

http://www.limekilnchandlers.co.uk/index.p...mp;productId=30

 

 

I was planning on the one above, as it's cheep, but I see that the lid appears screwed on too.

 

I can get a repair kit for the diaphragm pump I've got, but that still wouldn't be automatic, and I'll then have to think about how to get the basin to drain - either via the pump, or fitting a new skin fitting on the hull 'cause the basin's going over t'other side of the boat from the current drain point...

 

PC

[Smelly]

Myself and a friend both had big probs with sump boxes... Horrible times when they flow over and we've both swapped them, Matey went for a gulper and I wasted 90 quid learning I should have done the same. No filters to block and few seals to leak.

 

Mine was a Johnson sump pump with a screwed down lid that was the worst design error for anything other than fresh water, soapy gunk would jam the float switch and you'd step out of the shower into a flood.

 

They're probably suited to a through bilge where it doesn't hurt too much if it overflows every now and again, but with a sealed cabin bilge I'd avoid 'em like the plague unless the sump's seals were impermeable.

[OptedOut]

Is there any reason that you cannot just fit a pump under the bath/shower or in a cupboard and just forget about the sump etc?

I assume the basin could just be piped outboard.

[denboy]

I would go for the repair kit and skin fitting much safer option

[koukouvagia]

Mine was a Johnson sump pump with a screwed down lid that was the worst design error for anything other than fresh water, soapy gunk would jam the float switch and you'd step out of the shower into a flood.

 

I've got a manual override switch which will activate the sump pump if the float happens to get jammed.

Edited November 15, 2008 by koukouvagia

[paulcatchpole]

Mine was a Johnson sump pump with a screwed down lid that was the worst design error for anything other than fresh water, soapy gunk would jam the float switch and you'd step out of the shower into a flood.

 

They're probably suited to a through bilge where it doesn't hurt too much if it overflows every now and again, but with a sealed cabin bilge I'd avoid 'em like the plague unless the sump's seals were impermeable.

 

Where did they leak from? The lid, the vent or the connections to it?

 

As it happens, and I feel daft for not knowing for definite, but I believe we have a continuous bilge, which wouldn't be out of character for a 30yr old boat. Even so, I don't want gallons of water heading stern-wards.

 

Is there any reason that you cannot just fit a pump under the bath/shower or in a cupboard and just forget about the sump etc?

I assume the basin could just be piped outboard.

 

I would go for the repair kit and skin fitting much safer option

 

There's no reason I couldn't either rebuild my current pump, or buy a new one, apart from the fact that actually replacing the pump would total a similar cost to a sump box, wouldn't be automatic, and would need me to fit another skin fitting for the basin.

 

I'm a bit at a loss to understand why these things leak so much - surely if the box is water-tight, and the vent is high enough, there shouldn't be a problem? Is it that they need access to the internals for cleaning often enough that they can't be made waterproof?

 

PC