Outside Looking In

[Clivo]

Hi All

 

Just joined this forum and have been reading into the wee small hours trying to get some insight into the narrow boat lifestyle.

 

I'm toying with the idea of selling up and getting a new narrow boat and spending the rest of my days tootling around the canal system. The choice of builder seems to be a minefield that's also littered with cluster bombs, but more about that later.

 

As a single man I was thinking about a 50' boat with a fixed double. I intend to be in the 'continuous cruising' category although not spending each and every day at the helm. I know this is a tricky question but how many litres/hour would a boat this size use? What are your thoughts on the amount and capacity of batteries? What's the best way to supply heating/hot water while on the move and while moored up? It would seem that LED lights are the way forward and in the long term will be cost effective.

 

What about using wind generators and/or solar panels (PV), are they worth the expense?

 

Television reception is something I've also been wondering about. At such a low level does an aerial prove to be reliable? Failing that I guess it would mean using a dish. Having fitted a few of these myself does the movement of the boat (when moored) not mess up the dish alignment?

 

That's all for now but I'm sure there's a whole lot more I need to know.

 

Toodle Pip

 

Clivo

[StoneHenge]

We have a 62 foot boat, and I would say we use around .5 litre per hour crusing, less just running the engine.

 

We have 3 leisures and 1 starter, a 1500w inverter, and that copes with all our power needs. We watch telly occasionally and the aerial we have seems to do the job even in low reception areas where we can't get a decent phone signal.

 

We run a laptop, fridge, water pump, toilet flushes etc off it, and we haven't run into problems yet and we don't have a hook up. We don't have a washing machine either, so that's something to consider for your power needs if you intend to have one.

 

We charge the batteries with an hour of generator running (around 2 hours if I work from boat), and then half an hour of the engine for water, which is the easiest way to get it unless you have an eberspacher or such like to run for heating. When crusiing you should have plenty of hot water, it's just when moored you will need to heat the water.

 

We have a solid fuel stove which serves for heating most of the year. We use windfall wood and coal.

 

I very rarely used the engine or generator for power last year when we had the solar panel. It was very good and to me, was worth the money. I miss it this year but hoodies broke ours!

 

It is a minefield, but you will soon figure it out!

[Clivo]

Hi StoneHenge

 

Thanks for the quick response.

 

Sorry to hear about the solar panel incident but I guess when your close to the water you're bound to meet 'pond life' now and again.

 

I had no idea they use that little fuel when cruising, it's much better than I expected. Glad to hear about the TV reception as well although as I watch a few hours a day maybe a few more batteries may be wise. I have a laptop and a media centre PC which can hook up to an LCD TV. Was thinking about bringing my Miele washing machine with me as it is very efficient and will probably outlast me and the boat

 

You say you charge your batteries with an hour of generator running, is that a separate genny or something attached to your main engine? It sounds like these boats have a hot water cylinder, if so, how many gallons?

 

I live just outside the Lake District so it's going to be quite a journey to get to somewhere to see a lot of boats in one visit instead of just the odd few at Carnforth, although I'm sure they are very nice boats.

 

Regards

 

Clivo

 

 

We have a 62 foot boat, and I would say we use around .5 litre per hour crusing, less just running the engine.

 

We have 3 leisures and 1 starter, a 1500w inverter, and that copes with all our power needs. We watch telly occasionally and the aerial we have seems to do the job even in low reception areas where we can't get a decent phone signal.

 

We run a laptop, fridge, water pump, toilet flushes etc off it, and we haven't run into problems yet and we don't have a hook up. We don't have a washing machine either, so that's something to consider for your power needs if you intend to have one.

 

We charge the batteries with an hour of generator running (around 2 hours if I work from boat), and then half an hour of the engine for water, which is the easiest way to get it unless you have an eberspacher or such like to run for heating. When crusiing you should have plenty of hot water, it's just when moored you will need to heat the water.

 

We have a solid fuel stove which serves for heating most of the year. We use windfall wood and coal.

 

I very rarely used the engine or generator for power last year when we had the solar panel. It was very good and to me, was worth the money. I miss it this year but hoodies broke ours!

 

It is a minefield, but you will soon figure it out!

[larkshall]

Miele washing machine...Watch out very finnicky about power requirements. Electronics must be spoon fed pure sine wave

[carlt]

Electronics must be spoon fed pure sine wave

There was a hush, as the distinctive sound of a can of worms being opened, was heard....

[alan_fincher]

We have a 62 foot boat, and I would say we use around .5 litre per hour crusing, less just running the engine.

If you are genuinely only using half a litre an hour of diesel to push a 62 foot boat, then I think you can count yourself very lucky indeed.

 

I'd say a far more typical figure is around a litre an hour, and, if it's an older engine, not in the first flush of youth, even 1.5 litres an hour.

 

To pick up on another point, TV is impossible to predict, as it depends entirely where the boat is moored. For terrestrial TV, if on top of an embankment you may have no trouble, but could move a short distance to a cutting, and find reception impossible. (Don't forget that analogue transmitters will be turned off in not too many years, and digital is much fussier about signal strength - it ends up being an "all or nothing").

 

Satellite is often a better bet, provided you have "line of sight" to the Astra sat. If buildings or trees obscure the view, then it will not work, Rocking of the boat can disturb the picture, but less than you might expect.

[RLWP]

Hi All

 

Just joined this forum and have been reading into the wee small hours trying to get some insight into the narrow boat lifestyle.

 

I'm toying with the idea of selling up and getting a new narrow boat and spending the rest of my days tootling around the canal system.

 

Clivo

 

Hi Clivo,

 

I am going to add the most basic piece of advice that you will usually get - Go and hire a boat for a week to see if the dream matches the reality. There is a thread running HERE about hiring to a single boater, that should help you find a boat company. Go and see what living in a 50' steel box is really like. Imagine where you would put all the stuff that you currently own. Find out how a boat works and how it is to handle it on your own.

 

This is how most boat owners start - we did!

 

Richard

 

Edited to add link

Edited June 25, 2008 by RLWP

[StoneHenge]

If you are genuinely only using half a litre an hour of diesel to push a 62 foot boat, then I think you can count yourself very lucky indeed.

 

I'd say a far more typical figure is around a litre an hour, and, if it's an older engine, not in the first flush of youth, even 1.5 litres an hour.

 

To pick up on another point, TV is impossible to predict, as it depends entirely where the boat is moored. For terrestrial TV, if on top of an embankment you may have no trouble, but could move a short distance to a cutting, and find reception impossible. (Don't forget that analogue transmitters will be turned off in not too many years, and digital is much fussier about signal strength - it ends up being an "all or nothing").

 

Satellite is often a better bet, provided you have "line of sight" to the Astra sat. If buildings or trees obscure the view, then it will not work, Rocking of the boat can disturb the picture, but less than you might expect.

 

Yes, a typo on my part Alan. We use approximately 1.5 litres an hour, but less depending on the cruising speed.

 

Also, we run our TV through a digital TV box, and I've yet to be in an area where I couldn't get some reception, which gave me adequate viewing, although as I say, I very rarely watch it so it is less important to me than it would be to someone else.

 

And to answer your question CliveO, we have a petrol genny, separate from the boat, a Honda Suitcase, very quiet, runs about 20 hours on 10 litres of petrol.

[alan_fincher]

Yes, a typo on my part Alan. We use approximately 1.5 litres an hour, but less depending on the cruising speed.

Ah! I don't feel quite so bad about ours, now then.

 

We reckon about 1.3 or 1.4 litres an hour, for normal canal use.

 

The engine is an old BMC, and the boat is 50 foot.

[Clivo]

Thanks everybody, some really good stuff here.

 

A small genny seems like a great idea.

 

I was already toying with the idea of a short break at the back end of the season. It will be a little quieter then & I reckon if I like it then I'll love it in good weather. As I already live alone I don't think a 'steel box' will be any less attractive than a brick box. Although I've lived by the sea all my life I've never owned a boat although I've been out in a few. I would like to think I could get to grips with controlling it fairly soon. Thanks for the links, I like the sound of Chas Hadern Boats, only two hours from here.

 

I was a little concerned about the lock requirements as I had read that the boat should never be left unattended whilst working the locks. Clearly people are coping single handed so I guess you just go very carefully on your own or graciously accept the help of others when offered.

 

I have a spare dish here with plenty of cable and a satellite meter so I guess that's the best option. As I have a Media Centre PC I'll just have to be sure to have plenty of recorded material for the odd time I'm stuck without a signal.

 

I'll try to read up on 'Pure Sine Wave Inverters'

 

Shame about the fuel consumption but 1.5 ltr an hour ain't so bad if your just meandering along every few days.

 

As an ex-shipbuilder I'm curious about the frequency of the replacement of the sacrificial anodes. What's the average life expectancy and replacement costs?, for a 50' boat as an example. Regarding the hull, is it worth getting the steel shot/sand blasted and then metal sprayed, zinc, before priming and top coating in suitable paint?

 

Nearly forgot to ask. What size mooring ropes are required, I'm guessing just a head rope, stern rope, a couple of springs and an anchor rope, but not sure.

 

Regards

 

Clivo

Edited June 25, 2008 by Clivo

[Strads]

Ummh

 

Clivo - your asking all the Big questions

 

and ones where there are generally a multitude of answers..

 

Anodes.. depends on size / location when last fitted and erh use.. eg knocked off

 

expectation is that most boats have min of 4 two each side front and back and should have additional ones on a longer boat at approx 8-10 feet intervals...

In clear water I can see some of mine but not alll and they look ok for now..

 

 

If you do get to see a desireable boat then a hull out survey will be moeny well spent and you can if serious get it re blacked and new andodes done at the same time... (it there is time between survey and cutting a deal)

 

we visisted several brokers / marinas wilton and crick show and looked at styles / length /layout

 

each has their merit supporters and detractors.. but until you see/try (HIRE) then you wont know..

 

length is a an odd guide more aquestion of what style and waht do you want to include/fit in..

 

and what work can you do yourself ..

 

have fun - we are

[Clivo]

Hi Strads

 

Sorry about 'the big questions' and thanks for the reply.

 

I will be hoping to get a new build if poss and therefore was curious if anode replacement was usually timed with hull blackening. Which begs the question, exactly where are these things positioned? Below the waterline on (the vertical part of) the hull or actually on the very bottom of the hull, somehow don't think so, but not sure.

 

Clivo

[Bullfrog]

I will be hoping to get a new build if poss and therefore was curious if anode replacement was usually timed with hull blackening. Which begs the question, exactly where are these things positioned? Below the waterline on (the vertical part of) the hull or actually on the very bottom of the hull, somehow don't think so, but not sure.

 

Clivo

 

 

 

Have a look here and the rest of that thread;-

 

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...mp;#entry163258

[Hekaterine]

You might want to get a copy of Going It Alone - a guide to single-handed boating

 

http://www.canaljunction.com/boat/singleorder.htm

[Clivo]

Have a look here and the rest of that thread;-

 

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...mp;#entry163258

 

Cheers bullfrog

 

That thread explains a great deal.

 

Years ago I worked in a shipyard (as a Shipwright) and there were hundreds of anodes in a pile at the side building berths. Sadly my haversack wasn't big enough, these were well over 30" long and very heavy. Think they may well have been zinc, for seawater use. I bet they'ed cost a pretty penny nowadays.

 

Happy Days

 

Clivo

[Clivo]

You might want to get a copy of Going It Alone - a guide to single-handed boating

 

http://www.canaljunction.com/boat/singleorder.htm

 

Thanks Hekaterine,

 

I'll check that out.

 

Has anybody any further thoughts on small wind generators?

 

Clivo

[Chris J W]

Just my tuppence worth after single-handing for a year.

 

Getting the most important bit out of the way ... TV. Rarely had problems with getting Freeview - though I do recommend a decent aerial with a mast-head amp - it soon becomes second nature to remember to take it down before setting off and looking at where others are pointed when you moor-up again. A Maplin Camping Satellite kit is worth investing in for those few times where you can't get a decent signal.

 

There's plenty of advice around about single-handing and the above "Going It Alone" is a good starting place, but it helps to watch and learn from others, too. See if you can get to know someone in your area who can show you how they do it (I was very lucky in that respect) or go on a course.

 

Personally I'm not too sure about the "hire first to see if you like it" advice - it was suggested for me before I got mine last year, but I know that it would be a completely different experience using one boat, complete with the full backup of the hire place, for a week than setting off under your own steam and resources. But, as I say, that's a personal thing. I suppose at the very least you'll know if you can survive a day in such a smaller place!

 

My main bit of non-technical advice would be this; make sure you're damn comfortable with your own company! As, no matter how lovely the lifestyle, how relaxing it can be, being on your own 24/7 without the regular people you used to see can get bloody lonely at times. Of course, there are plenty of other times that you'll be damn glad that other folk arn't around!

 

It's a great life! Even the frustating bits are fun after the event!

[Clivo]

Thanks Chris J W

 

Do you find the locks ok on your own or do you usually wait for another boat to arrive?

 

Clivo

[Chris J W]

Thanks Chris J W

 

Do you find the locks ok on your own or do you usually wait for another boat to arrive?

 

Clivo

 

Mostly on my own - but I rarely say "No" if anyone volunteers to help! And if you've got a flight to face there's always plenty of volunteers here who'll be willing to be pressganged for the day.

 

Broad locks can be daunting at first, but you soon get the hang of it and learn your own routine. HOWEVER - I was lucky that I had someone take me through it step-by-step; even with reading about single-handed working it was a great help.

 

(IMHO narrow locks are far better for single-handing as the boat isn't going to go anywhere but up or down )

 

Plan ahead as best you can, go at your own pace, keep one eye on the boat, one on your rope(s) and the other (!) on the water and you'll soon be fine.

 

As for Swing/Lift Bridges, on the otherhand, I quite happily wait for another boat (or walker for that matter) to come along to give me a hand.

[Gary Peacock]

Thanks Hekaterine,

 

I'll check that out.

 

Has anybody any further thoughts on small wind generators?

 

Clivo

 

We have fitted quite a few wind generators and most of the reports are quite good that I have heard back are good, but the one thing I noted from installing them is the very obvious that it all depends on having the wind and if the wind in the boats location can actually get to the generator. (The high bank on our old moorings meant even in strong winds they seldom even turned!)

 

I am very wary of solar panels they obviously do provide free energy but on boats with the electrical specs ours tend to have that energy would make very little difference even if the installation was a large expensive one.

 

Like most things it comes down to lifestyle if yours is very minimal they might make sense but if not I would spend the money on a decent marine generator.

 

Narrowboat building is generally a very backward industry in comparison to the lumpy water marine world so it can be quite hard to get good non profit driven advice on some subjects.

 

The free CBA hand book guide "How to buy a boat for canal and river" is a good starting point, you can view it and order a free hard copy HERE.

[Clivo]

Hi Gary

 

Thanks for the link to the CBA and all the other info.

 

I would have got back to you sooner but I had a wander round your site and I just lost all track of time. Some great photo's.

 

Several years ago I was driving through Mirfield and stopped at Heron Boats for a quick look around. It was purely a spur of the moment thing as I spotted his sign from the road. Nice looking boats but a real shame for the people who got caught up in their downfall.

 

Are you on the same site?

 

Regards

 

Clivo

[Gary Peacock]

Hi Gary

 

Thanks for the link to the CBA and all the other info.

 

I would have got back to you sooner but I had a wander round your site and I just lost all track of time. Some great photo's.

 

Several years ago I was driving through Mirfield and stopped at Heron Boats for a quick look around. It was purely a spur of the moment thing as I spotted his sign from the road. Nice looking boats but a real shame for the people who got caught up in their downfall.

 

Are you on the same site?

 

Regards

 

Clivo

 

Same site but a lot smaller scale, we only have one unit not the four that they had. How they managed to pay for that lot I can't imagine.

[Clivo]

Same site but a lot smaller scale, we only have one unit not the four that they had. How they managed to pay for that lot I can't imagine.

 

 

Ultimately, and sadly, I guess the banks and the customers paid for it.

 

If I ever get through that way again I'll pop in.

 

Chow, for now

 

Clivo

 

PS

 

Are bow thrusters worth the expense? I know they're indispensable on large sea going vessels but not sure just how effective they are on narrowboats.

[Gary Peacock]

Ultimately, and sadly, I guess the banks and the customers paid for it.

 

If I ever get through that way again I'll pop in.

 

Chow, for now

 

Clivo

 

PS

 

Are bow thrusters worth the expense? I know they're indispensable on large sea going vessels but not sure just how effective they are on narrowboats.

 

I struggle without one but I aren't a "proper boater" so I find it makes life easier. I don't think they are a must have but rather something that can make life a bit easier if you would like one.

 

You have to be careful with asking boat builders to fit them though because some boatbuilders see it to be the ideal thing to make a little bonus out of! Rather than fitting a large enough motor and tube they will simply fit the cheapest simplest to fit unit they can get old of so it will end up to be neither be use nor ornament.

The latest scam is do you want us just to fit the tube? You can then end up with any old bit of cheap tube welded in that probably will cause absolute nightmares if you want to fit a motor later.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Gary Peacock

[Chris J W]

Are bow thrusters worth the expense? I know they're indispensable on large sea going vessels but not sure just how effective they are on narrowboats.

 

There have been times I would have screamed to the heavens to have bow-thrusters to help me moor when high winds have been against me, but that's been just for a few minutes over the year - and at those times stern-thrusters would have been bloody useful too!

 

There are many pros-n-cons on them (have a search through to find the 1000s of threads on the subject!) - but all I can say is that over the last year I've managed my 57" without them. I suppose this could be where "hire before buy" could come in handy of you could get one with BTs - try a few days without using them and then a few with and then you can get to make your own mind up about their usefullness to you.